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The W - Pro Wrestling - The "split" (Page 2)
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TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 103 days
Last activity: 103 days
#21 Posted on

I would take Summerslam out. I know that it's supposedly "the Wrestlemania of the summer" but to me the King of the Ring touranment and ppv have been the "big one" of the summer


Actually, the KOTR ppv is traditionally one of the most insignificant ppvs of the year. The tournament itself is meaningless. The WWF likes to point out that such greats as Austin, Triple H, the Hart bros, and Kurt Angle have won it, but their tournament wins had little to do with their success.



"This team is in the playoffs and we expect to do some damage because every team up there, we can play with."
-- DT Warren Sapp


Mike Phoenix
Chorizo








Since: 8.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4046 days
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#22 Posted on
1) I'm all for one champion for two companies...

2) I'm much MORE for having ONE F'N BELT for that one champion...



---=---:---=---
[Look up a line]
Wow, that belt looks like crap... I'll take it and carry it around for years and see if people can take it away from me... What? What was that? You mean even THIS belt doesn't matter! What? I'm insulted! Get away from me you... you... defiler!

Fully Technical Wrestling http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/fullytechnicalwrestling
The Big Kat
Kishke








Since: 11.1.02
From: Austin, TX

Since last post: 491 days
Last activity: 1 day
#23 Posted on
I think the split would be nice for getting some of the underused talent on TV, but the thing that pisses me off is that my local station shows Smackdown! on Saturday, so I don't always get to see it. Wassupwitdat?



-The Big Kat
"It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care." -Peter Gibbons, Office Space
The Vile One
Chourico








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 4475 days
Last activity: 4352 days
#24 Posted on
The McMahon's getting off tv would also help getting underused talent on tv as well.




"It is a strange fate that we suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing."
-Boromir
cfgb
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Ottawa, Ontario

Since last post: 5 hours
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.87
Actually, the KOTR ppv is traditionally one of the most insignificant ppvs of the year. The tournament itself is meaningless. The WWF likes to point out that such greats as Austin, Triple H, the Hart bros, and Kurt Angle have won it, but their tournament wins had little to do with their success.

I think a split could actually help the KOTR more than any other PPV to be honest... Have each side hold a 16 man bracket. The final four from each side move on to the PPV. The winners of each side meet in the finals to find a king. Gives one side bragging rights as well as an interleague matchup. It's just up to the WWF to decide whether they want that match to be the Yankees vs. the Mets or the Expos vs. the Devil Rays.




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TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 103 days
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#26 Posted on
This still causes the same problem, though. It's not the tournament format that's a problem. The problem is the WWF never puts much hype in the difficulty of beating 3 guys in one night. Plus, beating three midcarders in one night simply makes you the best of the midcarders, not necesarrily anything special.



I never thought I would say this...but I hope the Green Bay Packers win the Super Bowl.
cfgb
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Ottawa, Ontario

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 35 min.
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.87
Then the WWF should do something about it. This year they had a brilliant setup with Kurt Angle in the finals...and they blew it for a stupid angle with Shane McMahon. All Edge needed to do was defeat Kurt cleanly, 1, 2, 3, and we have a passing of King to King, on top of the fact that Kurt has already been a WWF World champ!

Getting main eventers, or The Level Just Below Main Eventers in there isn't hard. It's just up to the WWF to make the king look like a million bucks.




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ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 157 days
Last activity: 4 days
#28 Posted on
Originally posted by The Vile One
The McMahon's getting off tv would also help getting underused talent on tv as well.




"It is a strange fate that we suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing."
-Boromir



Like that would ever happen. Hell, if there was ever a Horseman reunion, it'd be the first major WWF angle not involving a McMahon in years. If the nWo reformed, you know they'd have Shane McMahon playing the role originated by Eric Bischoff.

Not to say I don't agree with you. I couldn't agree more with you. I just don't think the McMahons will ever get off TV permanently, not as long as people are still tuning in.

And that, as they say, is that.



“Bow-wow-wow, yippee-yo-yippee-yay, Oil of Olay all day, every day!”

--Disco Inferno, mocking Konnan's rap song
cfgb
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Ottawa, Ontario

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 35 min.
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.87
I just don't think the McMahons will ever get off TV permanently, not as long as people are still tuning in.

I think we've gone over four consecutive years now without ANY edition of RAW not featuring at least one of the McMahons playing a character role.

Anything with Vince as an announcer prior to Mr. McMahon doesn't count.

If anyone can name ONE RAW without a McMahon appearing in some way, shape, or form, since December 97, please post it here!




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DrOp
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 2265 days
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#30 Posted on

Y'know, I think the McMahon(s) on TV thing was a big outgrowth of two things:
1. The success of Austin-McMahon
2. The success WCW had in stealing talent

If the WWF constantly revolves around the McMahon family and they aren't jumping (not that there's anywhere to jump anymore) then you never have to worry about totally losing your "core stars."

Before you jump all over me, I must say that I don't agree with that thinking, especially today, but all soap operas--good, bad, or indifferent--revolve around a family or two as the core from which all storylines flow.

It just seems that once they got in TV, none of the McMahons could walk away from the rush of performing.



I only know that I can change; everything else just stays the same.


...And Marking Out
Slashwrestling.com
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#31 Posted on

The split just doesn't sound like a good idea, from a viewer p.o.v.
If i only can watch Raw, I might not get to see my favorite wrestler like The Rock or whomever is on the Smackdown show..and vica versa. At least now I got this little update on what happened on the other show.

It wouldn't make sense to make one of the shows WCW. And it wouldn't work. No matter how much I like the names they brought with them or dislike some of the names they left behind..without big names you aren't going to make it. Thus some WWF guys will have to join the 'other show'

And as for the McMahon's..Vince McMahon is over. Stephanie is over. Shane is er....pretty ever. Linda when she appears is over. Thus you will not see them disappear. As long as they appeal to the average fan/viewer they will not leave just like that. And why should they? The McMahon eras come and go. Vince gets my respect for getting his ass whooped big time when the time is right. He knows what the people wish to see regarding his persona.

Too bad that comes with so much airtime for him..



Imagine this is some funny signature. Then I will imagine you compliment me on it.
Loosie
Boudin rouge








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kitchener, Ontario

Since last post: 1144 days
Last activity: 1026 days
#32 Posted on
I'm completly against the plsit...even though I get both RAW and SmackDown! I just don't like this idea of a 'split' federation...one side WILL slide.

Plus JR pretty much guarenteed it will happen sometime between NWO and WrestleMania...if the split happens right before WM and ends up with someone not being on the card because of it...I will be VERY upset.



Loosie.
Your friendly nieghbourhood Canadian.

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rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

Since last post: 612 days
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#33 Posted on
Originally posted by dMp
And as for the McMahon's..Vince McMahon is over. Stephanie is over. Shane is er....pretty ever. Linda when she appears is over. Thus you will not see them disappear. As long as they appeal to the average fan/viewer they will not leave just like that. And why should they? The McMahon eras come and go. >




Im sorry, I cant let the Mcmahons off so easy. They have to realize that their oppressive presence on TV is not needed. If Stephanie was off TV for 8 mos they wouldnt give her a standing ovation for 10 minutes. Shane either. The WWF has the best deepest roster in the history of the sport. Instead of doing some non sensical split to showcase more talent they should give Stephs promo time to a wrestler who needs to get over with the crowd. My point is that NOBODY missed Steph when she was off TV. And I guarantee that not one fan is sitting home wondering when Shane is coming back.





That's my story and I'm sticking to it....

(edited by CRZ on 13.1.02 1826)
dskillz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 3230 days
Last activity: 2935 days
#34 Posted on
I like the split for one reason. Look at all the attention it is getting and it nothing but an idea right now. All these theories, ideas, suggestions, damnations means that people will watch WWF TV more closely when it happens. Hopefully they won't screw this up. Because you then have alot more viewers to get turned off of WWF TV. I am interested to see how they pull this off. What will they do? Will it suck? Will I like it? I am looking forward to it and will not damn it until I see what they come up with.



January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 335 days
Last activity: 23 days
#35 Posted on
Well, I'm from pro wrestling hotbed Calgary [dramatic pause] Alberta, Canada and I looove my wrestling. So, if it's WCW, WWF, ECW, XWF, WOW, ECWA, IWA, MWA, or Stampede...I'll be watchin'!...if I can get tickets. But hey, if there's a RAW in Calgary and a Smackdown in Edmonton, I'll go to RAW. It doesn't matter... Remember what the good lord said: split happens. So quit the jibber jabber and remember that this isn't SlashWWF...it's SlashWrestling!



Benoitaholic #258
dfallan
Cotechino








Since: 11.1.02
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Since last post: 4386 days
Last activity: 4386 days
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#36 Posted on
Well Here's what I'd like to see, and what, in my mind, makes the best business decision.

Have the so called split (For argument's sake, we'll call it splitting WWF into WWF and WCW).
Have the WWF truck right along as they have been.
McMahon and his 25 minute monologues to start the show.
A two hour show (Here in Canada) with easily 45 minutes AT LEAST of self promotion (When Kevin Kelly tells us about all the great stars going to appear in Moncton, and Ottowa and Fredricton) and commercials.
Have The Rock sing his catch phrases and call his Bitch announcer of the Month whatever insult he's cooked up for him.

Then have the WCW give us a show, minus a lot of the flash, and pizaaz.
Have THe Show start with Storm taking on Hurricane in a 15 minute affair.
Have a few short interviews to set things up, but otherwise, fill up the time with wrestling.
I said it before in this thread and the more I think about it, the more I wish I was on WWFE payroll.
By spliting up WWF and WCW, as many thought they would, at best you're competing against yourself (As someone else here so astutely mentioned), at worst, you're both competing against yourself, and weakening both products in the process.

My idea is that by offering a wrestling that has a completely differnet focus (In this case, Wrestling driven) you can garner a lot more interest, since exactly the same product attracts exactly the same people, regardless of the name (Hell, everyone knows its a McMahon product, whether its called WWF, WCW, or if the christin it NWA, no one is gonna be fooled).

I was never a big WCW fan, but I did, once upon a time, enjoy the fact that Nitro had wrestling on it. The First hour was buried, and the matches considered unimportant and ignored by commentators discussing important things like who the NWO would attack this night, and what WCW wrestler's hair plugs was Mean Gene talking about on his 1-900 line, but those matches included 12 minutes of Ultimo Dragon vs Dean Malenko (about 30 weeks in a row I think) and those were fun to watch...if you're into that wrestling thing.

So I think (Well, more HOPE) that if the Split does occur (And since its the same company, why not have guys jump back and forth now and then) we will see a very different product.

Of course, in regards to the original question, WILL THE SPLIT HAPPEN? I doubt it, because if it ain't been done yet..





"Money's the Same whether you earn it or scam it" Bobby "The Brain" Heenan
"Will you stop!" Gorilla Monsoon after just about everything Heenean says.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 103 days
Last activity: 103 days
#37 Posted on

McMahon and his 25 minute monologues to start the show.
A two hour show (Here in Canada) with easily 45 minutes AT LEAST of self promotion (When Kevin Kelly tells us about all the great stars going to appear in Moncton, and Ottowa and Fredricton) and commercials.
Have The Rock sing his catch phrases and call his Bitch announcer of the Month whatever insult he's cooked up for him.


If this is what you think the current Raw is like )and that sure seems like it's waht you're trying to say) you need to open your eyes. That quite a bit of exaggeration from an apparently bitter fan.



"A lot of guys on this team have a lot of bark, but no bite. Guys have to just shut up and play."
-- WR Keyshawn Johnson, following the playoff loss to Philadelphia

dfallan
Cotechino








Since: 11.1.02
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Since last post: 4386 days
Last activity: 4386 days
AIM:  
#38 Posted on
Originally posted by TheBucsFan

McMahon and his 25 minute monologues to start the show.
A two hour show (Here in Canada) with easily 45 minutes AT LEAST of self promotion (When Kevin Kelly tells us about all the great stars going to appear in Moncton, and Ottowa and Fredricton) and commercials.
Have The Rock sing his catch phrases and call his Bitch announcer of the Month whatever insult he's cooked up for him.


If this is what you think the current Raw is like )and that sure seems like it's waht you're trying to say) you need to open your eyes. That quite a bit of exaggeration from an apparently bitter fan.



"A lot of guys on this team have a lot of bark, but no bite. Guys have to just shut up and play."
-- WR Keyshawn Johnson, following the playoff loss to Philadelphia




Bitter Fan, or one who just lost a lot of interest?

I'm slowly getting back into it, but honestly, How off was I?

Okay maybe McMahon only does 15 minutes a night.

I stand by 45 mins, in fact as I think about it, I bet that number is a little small (I include commercials, which is usually 16 minutes an hour, so that means only 13 minutes of promoting the SAME shows again and again.
I know that I can watch a 2 hour show very quickly if I watch it on tape and fast foreward all the adverts and self promotion.
I understand the need for pushing house shows and merchindice, after all stock prices are down and vince is only 3/4 of a billionaire now. (Plus, I watch it on TSN, and have noticed a few times when I read CRZ's recap and questioned if something that happened was actually on the show I saw, or was removed. Trust me, you'd hate it, the CRTC (Council to Restrict Tv Content) has TSN (Toronto SPorts Network) so afraid whenever the Dudley put a woman through a table, we suddenly get shots of the fans, and no commentator audio)

I mean a lot of the self proclaimed 'Smarks' bitch about the Rock, despite the truth, that he is insnely over with the fans (And would be even if he just read the local bus schedule) regardless of what others say, does have a decent arsenal of wrestling move.
But let's see, Kelly was a Hermaphrodite, Lillian just wanted the People's Strudel, and Coach is a Sick Freak.
Wanna make a Gentleman's bet that if he takes on a new interviewer in a month or two he'll come up with another insulting (Although we'll be laughing) name for him?

My Overall disinterest just hit an odd breaking point last week, when I was finally being drawn back (Having nothing else to do on mondays for a few weeks), and they have Storm and Edge, engaged in honest to goodness wrestling, chain wrestling, with moves, holds and counter holds, all to suddenly end in a 1:08!

Of course I left out much from what we weekly see on raw.

The Regular Austin 'What fest'.
The Weekly ANgle Whine (Which is almost always worth watching, "I tore My quad this morning, and I'm fine now")

The Very few short matchs. (According to Raw lines on CRZs site here, 25 mins total for 6 matches. That's about 4:16 per match, Smackdown had 5 matches in about 34 minutes)

I don't mean to sound bitter (Although maybe I am) but I just haven't found myself all that compelled. Once upon a time I would watch the show religiously, taping it, in case I missed a segment or something and needed to catch it later. During the invasion angle, I missed weeks at a time, sometimes taping (And often not watching), other times, just not caring.

From what I understand those huge Monday ratings (something like almost 10 or more whole rating points divided among Raw and Nitro, 7.6 on Raw 2 years ago) have fallen to whatever the heck they are now, (What 4 points or something like that).

All I was saying is that the current formula just ain't working for me (Which is my problem) but figuring that a lot of others lost interest as well, maybe this is why?

And, more importantly, if they simply propogate this formula into a second show (ie Split the fed), they will either see no additional returns, or see losses in revenue.

Hey for all I know my whole "Make a wrestling based show with way more wrestling" is a doomed concept, but damn, I'd still watch it (How many rating points am I? .000001?)




"Money's the Same whether you earn it or scam it" Bobby "The Brain" Heenan
"Will you stop!" Gorilla Monsoon after just about everything Heenean says.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 103 days
Last activity: 103 days
#39 Posted on

A two hour show (Here in Canada) with easily 45 minutes AT LEAST of self promotion


Perhaps you should elaborate here. The whole fucking show is self-promotion! That's how they make, money, by PROMOTING THEMSELVES!

And people like to bitch about short matches, and will point to matches like the Storm/Edge one. It's not like that is the typical Raw match. If I were trying to defend the matches on the show, and pointed to a 25 minute match that was on the show at some point, that would be equally as silly because the average Raw match is not 25 minutes, just like the average Raw match is not 1:08. The "average" match would probably be somewhere from 3-5 minutes, with a little more for matches at the bottom of each hour. Then, the ppv matches are all given the time they need to develop, without the constant intervies or Rocky singalongs.

Something else to keep in mind: TV matches and PPV matches serve different purposes. TV matches are to further or develop feuds, PPV ones are to resolve them. Feud blowoffs need more time to be satisfying, but if a TV match's only purpose is to show the crowd a run in, 15-30 minutes isn't necessary and in fact would probably be counter-productive.
edit: I forgot what I originally meant to share. The Torch says any roster split is being pushed back until after Wrestlemania. I'm beginning to wonder if there's even any point in doing it.


"A lot of guys on this team have a lot of bark, but no bite. Guys have to just shut up and play."
-- WR Keyshawn Johnson, following the playoff loss to Philadelphia



(edited by TheBucsFan on 14.1.02 1923)

(edited by TheBucsFan on 14.1.02 1926)
bigwavedave
Blutwurst








Since: 3.1.02
From: morro bay ca

Since last post: 4354 days
Last activity: 4354 days
#40 Posted on
my picks for post split roster WCW (with some heavy duty fantasizing) This gives us 40 current Male wrestlers (- 4 injured inured; TAKA,Benoit,Rhyno, JL) and 14 women to work with. Have the following Belts. World title, TV Title (must be defended on every TV show) Cruiserweight Title,womens Title, Tag Titles. As time goes by, possibly ressurect the US Title and CW Tag Titles and Hardcore Titles as well.

President: Ric Flair
Commisioner: Arn Anderson
Announce team Mike Tenay ,Paul Heyman and Curt Hennig, Reporting/Secondary announcers Michael Hayes and Sharmell.
Ring announcer, Dave Penzer
Refs. Charles Robinson, Nick Patrick, Brian Hebner.
"Officials" Fit Finlay, Jeff Jarrett, Dean Malenko.
Wrestlers:
Kaientai with Malia Hosaka
The Dragons (Kaz Hayashi and Tajiri with Kimona Wanalaya)
Team Extreme (Jeff Hardy, Shannon Moore, Lita)
Danny Doring and Nova
Hurricane and Molly
Crash and Spike (with Beckie)
The STAMPEDE (Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Lance Storm, Christian with Trish Stratus)
Los Rudos ( Eddy, Chavo, La Parka, Essa Rios with Jungle Girl)
Los Technicos (Rey jr, Juvi, Psicosis with Tygress)
The Flock (Raven, Steven (Richards),Crowbar with Riot and Daffney)
Matt Hardy
Kurt Angle (with Terri Gold)
Jerry Lynn (with Tori (not Wilson))
RVD (with Taylor from Tough Enough1)
Super Crazy
EZ Money
Kid Kash
Lo-Ki
Saturn (with Ivory)
Kidman
Norman Smiley
Rhyno
Mike Sanders

The WWF can have everyone else and Nash/Hall/Hogan are speciffically barred form ever being in WCW or on WCW TV in any way other than archive video.



"My parents said I could be anything, so I became an ASSHOLE!"
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I don't think it's an age problem so much as it's a "too crippled-up to be able to wrestle" problem. You think he'd risk getting in the ring with a kid who just barely knows how to fall properly?
- WTF13, Tough Enough 3 (2002)
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