No, you're right. Jeff gets more femme by the week.
I enjoyed Chris Harvard, too. Nothing spectacular, but everything looked solid and he showed his character -in the ring-. So many guys, when they start, have this character in promos but it takes a while to influence their in ring wrestling style (which is by and large generic for a lot of green wrestlers). Nowinski behaved -like a heel-, most notably when he threw Spike down with disgust after the backbreaker. I dunno about that finisher, though. Maybe if he hits it a little more focefully next time, it'll look impressive.
On the whole, a good show tonight, with a finish that had me cheering. :)
"All I ever asked for in life is an unfair advantage." Microchip, Punisher Annual #2
Before I start, I have to say I went to this show with a real heavy heart. This Austin thing this weekend was really messed up for me
-Noticed all of Austin's clips on the opening video was cut out
- RVD v. X-pac - RVD is so over, cool 6 minute match lot's of highflyin action, I love watchin RVD. Booker run in was expected and welcomed.
-Vince in ring : it was surreal. I wonder if Austin didn't snap if his promo would be different. Iteresting when he said he owes the fans an apology the fans didn't seem to care, they just wanted Austin. It did seem like get your head on straight and we *may* talk.
Jeff Hardy v. X-pac - I really don't remember much about this match. Jeff did the running of the rail which is cool and I guy who wasn't paying attention almost got bumped while Jeff was doing it.
Chris Harvard v. Spike - I liked this match, I kind of went WTF when Christopher he ripped of his pants. Spike did a real good job selling and little guy trying to out move the big guy and loved the feet stomp on the fallen body. Plus Regal just looks like an awsome manager, I thought he added a lot to Tajiri and now he looks good With Harvard..
-Ric Flair in ring : Oh great a wrestler in his 50s becoming full time in-ring. Did not like the shot on Austin about "I won't take my ball and go home" and complamenting Hogan, somethin's wrong... Eddie comes in, I'll admit I got fooled I thought WHATtheHELL when the class broke, Don't really know how to feel about it, I was pissed but I did find it mildly amussing how King was picking on Ross for buying it (reminded me of the Heyman days). Eddie thick accent is fine in small doses but in long inring stuff it's way to cartoonish... Benoit comes up, I had no idea where they were going, they did do a good "swerve" with Benoit in the middle of making a point in mid-sentence turns and blames Flair... The attack took to long and the figurefour seemed like it was on forever... Again I'll be consistent I didn't like Eddie or Benoit blaming Austin for ruining their push.
-Trish(with Lil smilin)& D'lo v. Crash/Molly - Again I don't get why are they making Molly a sympothetic character, I mean seemed so sad about the comments and also slapped annoying interviewer in the face, I'm a Trish mark but how can you not feel sympothy for Molly... During the match the fans seemed to cheer Trish for being a face but can't really boo Molly. D'lo looked pretty good in there and while the story focused on the girls he held his own... Interesting no male on female stuff, one tags in the other tags out... What was AWESOME was the ending, Trish face first bump onto the announcers table was amazing, a great last visual to go into the PPV (to bad the story building up sucks). It would have been over the top Freakish if Trish bladed, which for a second I thought they would do that, but thin again I love Trish wrestling but scaring that pretty face is not a good idea... Funny thing is Xpac got knocked off the apron in the Book/Brock match and landed on his feet and kinda tumbled, while Trish goes crashing face first to the announcers table. Trish is amazing (how many times have Zee say in his recap, how didn't Trish break her nose?)... Oh ya if Lawler wants to start a "your a fatass" chant how about a "your a pedofile" clap clap clapclapclap for Lawler
-Undertaker vs. *Matt* Hardy (see his promo last week you'd get it) - Pretty much a squash, and a good ol' fashion beat down.
-Brock vs. Booker - Not to sound like a smart ass, but was there even a match going on. They seemed to just miss a lot of key moves. But we have Micheals and Nash doing there JR impressions how fun.
-Seeing how everyone is praising I"m probabley wrong, I just had this odd feeling. Rock did have a passionate speech and he was the ONLY one who can deliver it. But the whole "Austin" is comin made me ill. And after McMahons speech early on it seemed like he just said that to give us the illusion that Austin would come back now... Lines like "who needs the rattlesnake WE have the Rock" just rubs me so wrong like kicking the fan when his life is falling apart... Again I'm in the minority and they probabley did what's right but it bothered me.
other stuff : what did Lita say in "the World" interview, I'm still trying to decode it?...I liked Nowinski asking McMahon backstage what ivy school he went. Christopher could have worked on his snobby facial expression when Vince answered, but nice idea anyways... Errr TE Jackie is another McMahon slut, reassures me how Vince's character is one worn out character that does't need more TV time.
-Sign of the night "Someone feed Terri" mean but true, especially when we have two healthy lookin gals fighting when that sign was shown. -Quote of the night : After King said he's like Trish's panty's JR comes out with "Why, would you wear them, what would you do with them" King get's defensive and says "Aww I just won't them"
I don't get it, everyone loves rats, but they don't want to drink the rats milk?
- Chris Harvard's "tearaway" Dockers - As NHS just mentioned, the "Someone Feed Terri" sign - The fact that I needed my English/Spanish dictionary for the vast majority of Eddie's promo - D Lo's SWEET whatever-it-was move
I've never been in the "Die Rocky Die" camp, nor have I been a huge Rock fan...but he certainly kicked some ass tonight.
Some random comments that don't involve The Rock: It's funny. Just after Wrestlemania, we heard how Nash and Hall didn't want HBK in the nWo because of his "cowboy" image not meshing with what the nWo was all about. Yet, Shawn was wearing a cowboy hat during Raw. Think maybe he did it for spite? "Chris Nowinski is running like an educated scalded dog"--funniest line of the night. What the hell was JR thinking? I swear, he gets so excited sometimes that he can't even say his own catchphrases without screwing up. Oh well, it's understandable. I still love the "He picked his own lumberjackets!" line he had about a month ago. Good to see D'Lo on Monday night. Too bad he got no reaction whatsoever. I don't like this "winner of KOTR gets a title shot at Summerslam" stipulation. Unless, of course, they feel like having RVD win and face the Undertaker at KOTR. Otherwise, i'm really not looking forward to Brock vs. HHH.
"You better get his ass outta here before I get up"- Undertaker
I was busy working out but these moments stuck out for me:
Chris Harvard - He is going to be a breakout star. A perfect example of the right person given the right gimmick.
Give me a Raven promo no matter how prophetic it may be. But I got Raven on D-Lo on my TV so all is good.
Wait, angles from Heat carrying over to Raw? That is a good thing.
Vince's speech was a very good spin job. He addressed the situation with the information that he had available to him. It was a candid, out of character moment. The crowd showed why wrestling will never be taken seriously. Chanting 'what' during an important speech just kills the moment. I hate the 'what' chant now.
Lesnar facing down the NWO was cool. I like foreshadowing.
Who are the most entertaining performers right now? Booker T and Golddust. Gotta love them.
Prime evil of Kaiju Big Battel is very mysterious and expensive doctor.
Raw fired on all 495 cylinders for me tonight. The Rock was on, I loved the Harvard Chris match, the SOMEONE FEED TERRI sign, Booker, the nWo/Brock confrontation...man, it was all there, including good matches involving Raven and X-pac.
Things are looking up, folks. If Raw is this good CONSISTENTLY (which is the big question, isn't it?), then I can definitely handle it.
YOU WANT A PIECE OF ME!?! - The immortal, chilling words of...The Shockmaster!
I'm confused here. Two of you in this thread register your delight for the demeaning and horrible sign about Terri, yet everyone is allowed to get pissed off at Lawler for talking about Molly's ass? You can't have it both ways. I tried to justify the Trish/Molly storyline last week, but now I can't do it anymore. Lawler's comments about Molly's butt were awful and offensive and whoever made that sign was using the same thought process when picking on Terri's body. It's all sickening to me now. Oh, and Raw was kickass last night.
"Oh would you stop being all stealthy and just get in the truck"- Tom Servo
Originally posted by Torchslasher I'm confused here. Two of you in this thread register your delight for the demeaning and horrible sign about Terri, yet everyone is allowed to get pissed off at Lawler for talking about Molly's ass? You can't have it both ways. I tried to justify the Trish/Molly storyline last week, but now I can't do it anymore. Lawler's comments about Molly's butt were awful and offensive and whoever made that sign was using the same thought process when picking on Terri's body. It's all sickening to me now.
Well, look at it this way... Many are uncomfortable with the Molly-has-a-big-ass angle because it's pushing the idea that unless a woman is a big-blonde-haired, big-breasted, anorexic stereotype, there's something wrong with her. The sign made fun of a big-blonde-haired, big-breasted, anorexic stereotype, targeting the most flagrant example of such in the WWE. Is that really that inconsistent?
Okay, I _did_ get a kick out of Molly flinging the Thighmaster.
Other Raw thoughts:
* RVD/X-Pac was perfectly fine. X-Pac got some nice air on the tope, RVD's counter to the X-Factor was cute, and the right guy won.
* Vince's promo was just right, IMHO. He cut enough of his typical speech patterns and mannerisms out to help get the "this isn't a joke" notion over with the crowd.
* That having been said, the Austin-Eddy music thing was just freakin' Lucy-pulling-the-football-away CRUEL. (In a good way.)
* Coachman was surreal tonight.
* Yes, Nash, we know you're tall. Go away.
* Chris's tearaway slacks produced a momentary "AUUUUGH! I'M BLIND, PEG!" reaction where I was watching the show, until we saw the trunks underneath. He definitely isn't on the IcoPro yet (much less Helmsley's special blend of vitamins and minerals) and needs a different finisher, but he's new so I won't kvetch too much.
* RAIDERS SUCK! (Had to get that out of the way.) I saw one of them with a replica belt and thought "NOW what did they do with the Hardcore title?" until I saw it wasn't busted-up.
* Benoit held up four fingers, Internet has collective orgasm; film at eleven.
* Cell-phone hijinks... I had four guys in mind: HHH (PPV match to sell, "out of control" thing from Smackdown), Rock (popped up in Hawaii this weekend as a tuneup), Goldberg (obvious hotshot booking, but is he even remotely in ring shape?), Steiner (about the only other big name out there). I would've bet on HHH, as the only one of those four who had a match on the upcoming PPV, but Rock was my second-likeliest pick.
* Lawler, you're at around 9, we need you down around 3, mmmkay?
* Was that Lita, or did an animatronic figure from Disneyland get caught in a paint factory explosion?
* I didn't watch Tough Enough, so this was one of my first exposures to Jackie. Whoever did her makeup should be shot; she looked like a hyena, facially. Yeah, putting her in lingerie will put asses in seats, right?
* On the flip side, in the commercial, the white outfit one of them (Stacy, I think) had on... w00t! Gotta get one of those for the wife.
* Taker Raven Hardyz drive through come again. Not enough chemical imbalance from Jeff this week.
* Speaking of that match... Shawn, you're at 14, and we need you down around 3, mmmkay? Geez.
* The Rock... SPOKE IN THE FIRST PERSON. It's a SHOOT~!
(Perfectly fine promo, even with the malaprop at the beginning.)
(edited by vsp on 18.6.02 0827) "No society has managed to invest more time and energy in the perpetuation of the fiction that it is _moral, sane and wholesome_ than our current crop of _Modern Americans_." -- Frank Zappa
1)When Chris Benoit said, "Eddy, don't you know who this is? This is Ric Flair!" The fact that he didn't follow up with a well-timed headbutt was utterly disappointing.
When Benoit said to Kurt Angle, "hey, don't you know who this is? This is Stephanie McMahon!" And dropped her with a headbutt...that was probably one of my favorite out of the blue LMAO moments in the past two years.
That needed to happen again. I understand the emotion of the promo, but its still Chris Benoit cutting a promo after the crowd got completely worn out trying to decipher Eddy Guerrero's promo...Benoit should have given him the headbutt, then cut his promo while Eddy put on the figure four. That would have kept the crowd's interest, I think.
2)Love the NWO. Shawn Michaels acting like Michaels circa-95, always talking the trash then running behind Nash and Big Show works. If Nash shows the dedication to at least put effort into his matches once he returns--the NWO is going to be a force.
I love the smarmy commentary with Nash and Michaels, too. Don't really know why...just really enjoyed it.
3)Christopher Nowinski. I like the guy. I also love that Vince had to own up to being from ECU! Ha! I loved the "Harvard sucks" chant. The guy is already more over than William Regal.
I'm relieved to see someone else (Kinsman at the top of the thread) was caught off guard with that weird stretch of the show that had those segment transitions. Big Show watching the TV for the second transition was odd, but Coach talking to us about Booker and Goldust (he didn't even have a monitor!) was just out there. I'm waiting for the CRZcap for his wording, but it came off like "Fans, are you as amused by the antics of Booker and Goldust as we here at WWE Entertainment, Inc. are? If so, call now and pledge your support and we'll send you this free Booker and Goldust tote bag. Now, perhaps you'll enjoy this segment with people talking as well. Let's watch!" I wanted one after the nWo segment with UT reading a newspaper, then flipping it down to notice the camera so he could say "Oh, hello, folks! I'm TV's The Undertaker, and I'll be in action later tonight against that no-good Matt Hardy. Perhaps you would enjoy some footage from last week." He could have pulled that off.
I was a little thrown by the Goldust outfit at first, too. The black eye makeup kind of blended the moustache in, so he did have a fu manchu thing going until the whole look of his disguise came through. I still kinda wish that Booker was the smart veteran guy he was during the tail end of Harlem Heat and his pre-Russo singles push instead of being the brain damaged guy he is now...but I just love the Black Gold Booker & Goldust segments. Dustin just gives himself over to being Goldust 100% and it's hard not to enjoy the off kilter neo-Rock 'n Sock "I hate this weirdo...but he's my only friend!" relation that Booker has with Goldust.
Match-wise, the only one I can remember standing out (I might be forgetting something, it was an odd show, understandably) was RVD vs. X-Pac. Kinda sucks that RVD is unable to beat freakin' X-Pac clean, but it was a good match and X-Pac brought a lot to the table. Unfortunately, he didn't bring pants. I'd like to see RVD form a friendly alliance with Booker and Goldust to even the odds up, just to have merry pranksters Nash and HBK have no idea how to deal with how that interview segment would go down.
The Benoit/Eddie vs. Flair thing has me confused. It's probably the best way to go for the feud with Austin gone, but I'm not getting the backstory. Vince spent 20 minutes explaining directly to the crowd why Austin was gone and it had nothing to do with Flair. In fact, Flair losing and having to be Austin's manservant (nice to see Flair was a big fan of NBC's "Jerry!" pilot) gave Austin more reason to be there so Eddie could attack him. I don't see why they hold Flair responsible for Austin not being around.
Benoit's interview and pseudo-turn on Flair was obvious. I'm not sure if it's something to do with Benoit's interview style, where you can always tell what he's getting ready to do by the way he's saying things and positioning himself in the ring OR if it's because in the WWF, Benoit has ALWAYS done the "Hey, don't be mean to that guy...because I'M going to be mean to him...ha ha ha!" interview. They shouldn't have made him a heel in the first place.
Rest of the show was all over the map, but that's how it's gonna be when you lose the biggest guy in all of wrestling (and Austin was...Rock might have been bigger as a crossover guy, but he was the one who got booed when Austin and Rock faced off with no heel affiliations). Rock's speech at the end, from a presentation and delivery standpoint, was riveting. He's amazing when he controls the crowd. As for the substance...well, who knows how long he's going to be around, but I'm under the impression that he's one of Austin's friends, so I guess he's the right person to deliver it.
Better him than HHH. I'm dreading any additional HHH presence (is that possible?). I half expected ten minutes of time filler of HHH coming out and staring at the crowd intensely. At least UT has suddenly gotten on his kick of interacting with the younger guys and making it look interesting instead of HHH making himself the new Stone Cold (feud with McMahon? Check. Take the show hostage? Check. Destroy equipment? Check. Contract signings? Check.) while delivering lousy interviews and segments when people aren't talking about how great he is. Lots of apprehension about what HHH's SmackDown holds this week, but the vague possibility of the return of the real Rey Jr. (the guy with the mask who disappeared in '99) will probably pull me in anyway.
Originally posted by vsp* Was that Lita, or did an animatronic figure from Disneyland get caught in a paint factory explosion?
LOL. Indeed. And did she say, "It's just not worsk the rith?" Jesus Christ bananas!
And Torchslasher, I think you're really reaching with your Terri/Molly inconsistency thing. As VSP said, I think it's cool that someone in the crowd pointed out the fact that Terri would look better if she was bigger...that actually agrees with my thinking on the Molly situation.
Big butts rule. Hot chicks with curvy figures rule.
EDIT: Lita's acting was so bad, it reminded me of the horror movie chick on Beavis and Butthead: "Oh..my...gawd. Like, what is going on here? All of my sorority sisters are like, decapitated! Hmmm. I know! I'll take a shower!"
(edited by Parts Unknown on 18.6.02 1107) YOU WANT A PIECE OF ME!?! - The immortal, chilling words of...The Shockmaster!
Originally posted by BDC1)When Chris Benoit said, "Eddy, don't you know who this is? This is Ric Flair!" The fact that he didn't follow up with a well-timed headbutt was utterly disappointing.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this.
Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?" Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"
"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!" -Norman Smiley
Molly is being picked on because of her figure (her ass to be specific). Terri was picked on, in that sign and on this board in the past, because of her figure. It's the same concept, as both instances involve pointing out a woman's supposed physical deficiencies (sp?). So I don't see how one can make mean-spirited comments about one woman (Terri), and then get offended about mean-spirited comments being made about another woman (Molly).
"Oh would you stop being all stealthy and just get in the truck"- Tom Servo
Random thoughts, from the mark with the biggest smile in the world after watching last night's show.
X-Pac/RVD: I'd love to see these guys feud some more after KOTR is over.
When I saw Taker come out during the Jeff Hardy/Raven match, it was like having a "shark smelling the blood in the water" moment. I KNEW a beatdown was coming, just didn't know when. All I could do was just sit there, wait, watch, and salivate at the prospect.......
They need to start flashing the words "DEPENDS ALERT" anytime Booker and Goldust are onscreen together. Damn, but those two are pure, comedic gold, plain and simple.
Since they're making such a big deal out of "Harvard Chris", you'd think they would've given him a pair of crimson tights. The ones he had on last night, when he whipped off those breakaway chinos, I had to ask myself if I was watching RAW or a really bad Chippendales show.
Anyone who says they didn't go "what the f***...?" when Austin's music hit, don't go near a polygraph!!
Loved the whole Flair/Eddy/Benoit exchange. Who says the "Crippler" needs Double A to do the talking for him? He sounded just fine to me!
Nash & Michaels on commentary was actually pretty damn funny. I guess it's true then, that everybody really DOES have a purpose on the WWE food chain!
(sung to the tune of "Won't Get Fooled Again") "Meet the new slut (TE's Jackie), same as the old slut.." (Lita)
And speaking of the latter, I REFUSED to watch her segment from The World, but heard about it later. Why am I not surprised?
But dammit, the thing that TRULY made my night, the thing that has plastered a grin on my face that can't be sandblasted off, was that whole post-match beatdown following the Taker/Matt Hardy match.
Godd**n, but I love Taker & Raven. 'nuff said.........
"My object all sublime I shall achieve in time To make the punishment fit the crime The punishment fit the crime" ---W.S. Gilbert "The Mikado"
Originally posted by TorchslasherMolly is being picked on because of her figure (her ass to be specific). Terri was picked on, in that sign and on this board in the past, because of her figure. It's the same concept, as both instances involve pointing out a woman's supposed physical deficiencies (sp?). So I don't see how one can make mean-spirited comments about one woman (Terri), and then get offended about mean-spirited comments being made about another woman (Molly).
Try it from this direction:
Everyone's concept of attractiveness is a little different; who's good-looking and who isn't is a subjective concept. However, I'll wager that nine out of ten people would agree that even in her current character, Molly is much closer to naturally-occurring physical proportions and appearance than Terri is.
The huge-fake-boobs, dyed-hair, lotsa-makeup, skimpy-outfit "Diva" look does not occur randomly in nature. It is a product of plastic surgery, adherence to an artificial standard of beauty, and (some would say) monumental lapses of judgement. Terri's current "look" is an intentional one, and deviates farther from "normal" in the direction of anorexia than Molly's deviates from "normal" in the direction of obesity.
The WWE is currently presenting Terri as a positive physical role model and Molly as a negative one. Most people seem to believe that the opposite is true in reality. What's more, the attacks on Molly are (a) more likely to resonate with typical female viewers of the show (or girlfriends, wives, etc. of male viewers), and (b) at the expense of someone who's shown plenty of athletic aptitude. Terri, on the other hand, appears to have a job primarily because of (a) seniority and (b) her membership in the B-Grade Exhibitionist Porn Star Lookalikes' Club. If I saw someone who looked like Terri at the local mall, I'd be much more likely to crack up laughing than to whistle appreciatively.
So think of the "FEED TERRI" sign as a small message to the WWE that some of us recognize absurd writing, and when a realistic figure's being bashed while a broomstick with boobs and feet gets "Diva" treatment, SOMETHING AIN'T RIGHT.
"No society has managed to invest more time and energy in the perpetuation of the fiction that it is _moral, sane and wholesome_ than our current crop of _Modern Americans_." -- Frank Zappa
WHAT WORKED: -The In-Ring work was fine for the most part. You move the matches from three minutes to five minutes and you donít break any of them up with commercial breaks and you instantly have a much much better show.