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The W - Pro Wrestling - The Raw Main Event
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It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#1 Posted on
I can only hope that ladder match finally ends this insipid, one-sided feud! You can argue that Jeff put up more offense than all his other matches with UT put together, but it doesn't take away from the fact that UT beat Jeff AGAIN! The only plus would be UT raising Jeff's hand at the end, but how can they follow up on that?
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Super Shane Spear
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

Since last post: 1599 days
Last activity: 1599 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
They follow up on that by having full-out heel Angle beat Tweener-Taker on Thursday night.



EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#3 Posted on
Heel Angle beating Tweener Taker doesn't make sense, since you need a face going into Summerslam, and that would mean that either Angle has to turn or Angle drops the belt before then. And since Taker is a Tweener, why use Kurt to transition the belt? Unless they are turning Kurt AND Taker at the same time, but it doesn't make sense to put two guys they are turning against each other. Does it?

I'm thinking Brock may very well destroy a face Taker at Summerslam. Just maybe.

Then again, I called Big Show v. HHH in a heel heel main at WM 2000...



I'm gettin too old for this shit...
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#4 Posted on
I'm also seeing the seeds being planted for a Taker face turn. They had him raise Jeff Hardy's hand, shake John Cena's hand, and are putting against a heel Kurt Angle.

But if they ARE turning him face, why put him against The Rock at Vengeance?
Skylaer
Linguica








Since: 1.7.02

Since last post: 4224 days
Last activity: 4222 days
#5 Posted on
To put FACE rock against HEEL brock.
EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#6 Posted on
Notice how I conviently ignored mentioning Rock v. Taker at Vengeance? Yeah, I can't explain it either.

Unless they do Heel Kurt v. Tweener Taker v. Face Rock at Vengeance, since Kurt doesn't seem to have anything else on his plate right now (Hogan rematch? Don't think so...), and that allows Rock to get the title with minimal transitions.

Then again, the WWE likes moving the belt around more than is necessary sometimes...



I'm gettin too old for this shit...
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 80 days
Last activity: 80 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
They did a great job of building up the ladder match throughout the show, making it seem like Jeff had a chance. Every person in the building, from Terri to Vince, thought Taker was taking Jeff too lightly, and that an upset might be in the making.

Too bad I missed most of the match because I was watching the end of Darryl Kile's 1993 no-hitter on ESPN Classic.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
HitTheSnoozeButton
Boudin rouge








Since: 2.1.02
From: Pittsburgh PA

Since last post: 2097 days
Last activity: 447 days
#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    They did a great job of building up the ladder match throughout the show, making it seem like Jeff had a chance. Every person in the building, from Terri to Vince, thought Taker was taking Jeff too lightly, and that an upset might be in the making.

    Too bad I missed most of the match because I was watching the end of Darryl Kile's 1993 no-hitter on ESPN Classic.




Well, if you saw the chairshot at the end, didn't you think that Jeff might just have pulled it off?



What a Manuever!
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 18 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#9 Posted on
They had me there at the chair shot. For a brief moment I thought they just might be nuts enough to pull the trigger. I think it was the Ross commentary that had me going, just how into it he was getting. For a brief moment I thought the ending might have been Jeff grabbing the belt, and as Taker chokeslammed him off the ladder having Jeff pulling the belt down with him.

And as someone who has complained many times about Taker, I have no complaints at all about the way this match was laid out. The whole point was that Jeff could take a beating, and because of the ladder stip all he had to do was get one chance to climb the ladder, instead of fighting off pins or submissions. So I thought the large beating laid on Jeff fit in perfectly with what they were trying to do. Jeff Hardy came out of that match looking more credible then he did going in. The way that was built, people were believing in it by the end, and would have bought him winning had he somehow done it, which is a testament to all involved.

And on a side note to people who complain about complaining on the internet, if they'd put on matches like that which make me happy to watch, I wouldn't complain as often! ;)



Anyone remember the joy of seeing him bash the Undertaker's motorcycle with his sledgemhammer and doing no damage and being all like, "Mjolnir will not break thine cycle? I say thee NAY!" and dumping it off the stage. - Enojado Viento says the funniest thing I've ever read on Wienerville.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 80 days
Last activity: 80 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by HitTheSnoozeButton
    Well, if you saw the chairshot at the end, didn't you think that Jeff might just have pulled it off?


I thought he might win all along, but I meant through pre0match interviews other people showed their doubt in the Undertaker.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3565 days
Last activity: 3565 days
#11 Posted on
It sucked. Vince has been declaring the dawn of the new WWF when Austin left has been a lie. The only young stars being pushed will be Brock and thats about it. RVD is in his thirties as is most of the roster. The Hardies are offically buried. Both of them have had matches like this before with HHH, Autin, Brock and Taker and they all the time it has mattered little.

It also makes no sense with Taker being a tweener espically going up against Rock, now if they had HHH to the mix then I can see it. Other than that, it proves that Austin leaving was not the thing to open up the roster, but the thing that has been the show on neutral again. The WWE has been playing it safe or not playing with a full deck since Wrestlemania.

A Fan- Disappointed is not the word for it.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1437 days
Last activity: 345 days
#12 Posted on
    Originally posted by A Fan
    It sucked. Vince has been declaring the dawn of the new WWF when Austin left has been a lie. The only young stars being pushed will be Brock and thats about it. RVD is in his thirties as is most of the roster. The Hardies are offically buried. Both of them have had matches like this before with HHH, Autin, Brock and Taker and they all the time it has mattered little.

    It also makes no sense with Taker being a tweener espically going up against Rock, now if they had HHH to the mix then I can see it. Other than that, it proves that Austin leaving was not the thing to open up the roster, but the thing that has been the show on neutral again. The WWE has been playing it safe or not playing with a full deck since Wrestlemania.

    A Fan- Disappointed is not the word for it.



A-fucking-men. 'Taker moved around like a crippled hippopotamus that entire match. And Jeff was clearly waiting for Taker to knock him off the ladder, he could've easily grabbed that belt. I'm not saying he should've won, but I would have preferred a hot-shot run for Jeff as opposed to more of the same. No surprises, no rub, just old men protecting their spots. Whoo hoo.

(edited by asteroidboy on 1.7.02 2117)


"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex

"Was he no-selling?" - Me
rosty69
Longanisa








Since: 18.6.02
From: Here (college) and There (Home)

Since last post: 4289 days
Last activity: 4244 days
AIM:  
#13 Posted on
Oh, dear, the Undertaker's holding down new stars? Whatever shall we do (puts hand to forehead)? This will be the end of the company!

IT'S GUYS LIKE THE UNDERTAKER AND HHH THAT R ROOINING THE BIZNESS, IF THEY WOULD ELEVATE NU STARS LIKE BENOIT AND JERICHO, BUT ESPECIALLY BENIOT!!!!! THEY R OLD AND LAZY AND DON'T SELL AND MOVE TOO SLOWLY!

Seriously, kids, let's be reasonable for a second. It was a good match, if only for the psychology, and I don't care and neither should anyone else that he "moved too slow." Did it take anything away from the STORY they were telling? Hell no, it didn't. This was good television, because for a while, just for a small amount of time, I believed that Jeff Hardy might win the title. And you say that the match served no purpose? And that this whole "elevating new stars" thing is just a catch phrase, except in the case of Brock?

Oh, right, that John Cena guy didn't do anything last week--
just came in the ring and got his ass handed to him by Kurt Angle, didn't he? Yup. Yesiree Bob. No offense for him in that match. He didn't come out looking like a million bucks.

And, in the Undertaker's match against Randy Orton, that kid didn't look good at all, did he? Nope--UT plowed right through him, you better believe it. Didn't sell either--that's right, UT NEVER SELLS!!!!!! He's an old man who's competing past his prime and doesn't make anyone look good anymore. Yup, Orton looked like a big ol' pile of shit in that match--not a move to be had.

And, Bautista? Didn't look like a monster last week with those two moves. Nope. Doesn't look like they'll be doing much with him.

Oh, and RVD and Eddy "aren't new stars" because they're not under 30? Jesus--what if some people had never seen or heard of them before they hit the WWE? That doesn't make them "new" to that person, now does it?

Quit yer bitchin'.
CruelAngel777
Frankfurter








Since: 7.4.02

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.70
All I have to say is that I predicted this in the "Jeff Hardy vs. The World" thread. Still want Jeff to go heel though....
Ender
Blutwurst








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 3973 days
Last activity: 1902 days
#15 Posted on
*Laughs*

I like you, Rosty!

Uh... I was going to make a post like yours, but I think you said it all... so... go read Rosty, everyone!!!


He's up this way... ^^^^^^^ (it's pointing up)
CarlCX
Salami








Since: 1.5.02
From: California.

Since last post: 51 days
Last activity: 19 hours
AIM:  
#16 Posted on
I'm not an exceedingly happy-go-lucky, "the WWE is beautiful" wrestling fan. Never have been.

With that said, this is the first time in recent memory that I've really emotionally gotten into a Raw main event, let alone a match with Undertaker or Jeff in it.

I applaud the WWE for what they did tonight. They managed to turn what was essentially a complete squash into a legitimately elevating performance for one wrestler and a very well-executed potential turn for another.
BobHollySTILLRules
Bockwurst








Since: 3.1.02
From: C-Bus, Ohio

Since last post: 4392 days
Last activity: 4392 days
#17 Posted on
I just couldn't get into that match because Undertaker took WAY to long to run into the ropes, see, I had my stopwatch with me and it was a joke. I mean come on, the guy can't even run fast.


WHO CARES!? If that's your response to that match you don't like wrestling, you like spotting. Period. You want guys to run around, jump pretty, and make everything look good. Now, I'm not a huge Undertaker fan, frankly, I think he's pretty boring, but that was a damn good match and the fact that some people (not here) can't enjoy it because Undertaker messed up Jeff's Huracanrana is a joke. That's like saying you couldn't enjoy your favorite team's World Championship because they were losing at the end of the first quarter. Who cares how they got there, it's the finished product that counts and that finished product was a damn good match that actually, you know, told a story. I mean, I loved the NWATNA's X-Title match as much as the next guy, but it didn't tell a story, it was 4 guys being stupid and going from spot to spot like one big chain. Now, yeah, I can see why some people would like that, but it's not wrestling, it's a spotfest, wrestling is the art of turning a staged fight into a story in the ring and tonight, Jeff Hardy and the Undertaker did a damn good job of it. I mean, they made me think that lil' nutjob might actually win the damn thing and Undertaker shaking his hand at the end was a great moment, that was a feud that had a purpose from the beginning (well, not the pre-Rumble beginning, the Jeff dropkicks Taker beginning). It showed actual long-term booking with the purpose of (gasps) putting Jeff Hardy over. That's what they did tonight, even if he didn't win, Jeff Hardy was made to look like a man who can hang at the top of the WWE, hell I believed it. I honestly look at that kid in a different light now. If you can't do that, then I don't know what to tell you.

As for the rest of the show, it was damn good too. I was lost on the X-Pac thing because my friend is a little slow on the remote control and I didn't see him laid out in his locker room, but that's nothing too big. I can't stand HHH, but I like the "will he or won't he" intrigue, we haven't really had something like that in a while. Nash taking out Goldust in the back finally made the nWo look worth a damn. The opening segment was very solid, Flair-Lesnar was better than I ever thought it could be and I like the direction of the RVD-Lesnar feud, I honestly don't know who will win. I mean, yeah, Lesnar's getting the huge push, but he doesn't need that IC Title. Who knows? The WWE is finally beginning to get the one thing they truly needed back, suspense. Things aren't so damn predictible. They actually appear to have a direction, but you don't know how they're going to get there. That's booking at it's best. Obviously, there's still room for improvement, there always is, but if you walked away from Raw tonight thinking "man, Undertaker moves too slow" I don't think you're ever going to enjoy a wrestling program. Quit nitpicking and look at the big picture and the big picture is very bright. Finally.



Hardcore Holly and Val Venis-Next WWE Tag Team Champions.

After all they've wanted to team for YEARS! Billy and Chuck, they haven't even KNOWN each other for years.
ProtoSeth
Loukanika








Since: 2.7.02
From: Massachusetts

Since last post: 4503 days
Last activity: 4476 days
#18 Posted on
Long-time lurker, first-time poster..

This is the first time in a LONG time that I've actually gotten excited about a match..not only was the pace good, not only did they manage to make Jeff look like a credible threat, but the pre-Tweener/Face turn for Undertaker was perfectly credible within the storyline. Here's a guy who's oppsessed with getting respect finally finding someone who seems genuinely worthy of his. Enough to make him re-examine himself? I hope so. Taker works best as a tweener and it would be nice to see him go out at the top of his game.
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#19 Posted on
I won't question the ending, but I'm very skeptical as to where they'll go with this. With UT, he'll likely turn face again and that'll make things difficult in terms of top heels, because that'll leave only Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar as legit heels. And I use that term loosely with Brock, because he doesn't seem to be over for whatever reason.

I'm more worried about Jeff Hardy. Where do they go from here? He's been squashed more times than I can count and now that he has this "rub" from UT, what'll he do with it? There's really no good way to follow up on this. The only thing I can picture them doing is hotshotting the Euro title onto him since Regal doesn't seem to be doing much with the belt, anyway.
BobHollySTILLRules
Bockwurst








Since: 3.1.02
From: C-Bus, Ohio

Since last post: 4392 days
Last activity: 4392 days
#20 Posted on
I'd stick him in a feud with Eddie or Benoit personally. One of those 2 will face Bubba at Vengeance, so why not have the other meet Jeff? I mean, hell, it's better than Spike. Granted, there's not much time to build it up, but there's still just enough.



Hardcore Holly and Val Venis-Next WWE Tag Team Champions.

After all they've wanted to team for YEARS! Billy and Chuck, they haven't even KNOWN each other for years.
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