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The W - Print - The New DC Universe Begins (Page 2)
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Cerebus
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Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 2 days
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.87
Ok, here's how the whole Flashpoint works...



Here's the original DC Universe timeline.



At some point, the universe was split into three different universes; DC, Vertigo and Wildstorm. We do not know what caused this to happen.



Then, Barry Allen decides to go and bring his mom back to life. Unfortunately, the Speedforce doesn't work that way, so when he does this, it fucks shit up.



Using the Speedforce like this caused ripples through out time. Now the Speedforce isn't meant to do this. We know this because Barry and the other characters that use the Speedforce use a jury-rigged treadmill to go forward and back through time. If it was meant to be used for time travel, they wouldn't need the treadmill.

As we learned from Booster Gold and Rip Hunter and Waverider and all the other time traveling characters, it's bad to change things in the past. There are 'laws' that need to be adhered to or shit gets fucked up. Zoom was able to go through out the timeline because he is no longer a part of it. Now this part is just a guess, but because of this, he is able to go and make changes in the past without causing problems because he isn't a part of the timeline. His changes become 'out of time' just like he is. Barry, however, isn't like this. The changes he makes do cause problems, probably more so than normal because he displaced someone out of existence; cause and effect!

So, Barry fucks up big time here. He time travels with out the treadmill AND he changes time. Because of this, the Speedforce sends ripples all over the place. It fucks up the present turning Deathstroke into a pirate and Cyborg into a big time superhero. It changes the future for the Legion of Superheroes and all those characters. Yes, it even causes these ripples to go back in the past allowing Frankenstein to fuck Hitler's shit up and allows Joe Chill to kill Bruce Wayne.



Finally seeing that he was the cause of all this, Barry attempts to make it right. Well... two wrongs do not make a right, jackass. Using the Speedforce yet again to travel back in time and change stuff only causes more damage to the universes. Thankfully some female is there to help him get through it and put the universes back on the 'correct' path.


One path. One timeline, the way it's 'supposed to be' according to the mystery woman anyway. This gives us the All New DC Universe... which I guess is really the original universe but with all the Vertigo characters integrated back into it and the Wildstorm charactes added to it like they have always been here.

I'm good with this.

Now keep in mind it's all a made up story in a kids funny book... what's so hard to understand or accept? Do you not like Frankenstein?

EDIT- I'm tired, can someone smarter than me fix the links. Thanks!

EDIT #2- Nevermind... make me do my own editing...

(edited by Cerebus on 2.9.11 0353)


(edited by Cerebus on 2.9.11 0404)

Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 431 days
Last activity: 424 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.38
Time travel fiction blows.



Lloyd: When I met Mary, I got that old fashioned romantic feeling, where I'd do anything to bone her.
Harry: That's a special feeling.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.90
    Originally posted by samoflange
    Time travel fiction blows.


Jules Vern,Back to the Future, Star Trek IV and Doctor Who says piss off.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.





Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 176 days
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.40
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    Ok, here's how the whole Flashpoint works...



    Here's the original DC Universe timeline.



    At some point, the universe was split into three different universes; DC, Vertigo and Wildstorm. We do not know what caused this to happen.


Um. What? How do the Multiverse and the 52 Earths post-Infinite Crisis fit into that Original DC Universe straight line? Aren't the Wildstorm and Vertigo universes just two out of the 52 Earths? If not, why are they special?

Never mind! I don't care. It doesn't matter.



@BackoftheHead

www.backofthehead.com
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 12 hours
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.88
    Originally posted by lotjx
      Originally posted by samoflange
      Time travel fiction blows.


    Jules Vern,Back to the Future, Star Trek IV and Doctor Who says piss off.


Also saying piss off; Terminator 1 & 2, Booster Gold's last series, and Our World's at War.



After a (very) long hiatus, I have begun to write again. And this time, I'm not alone!

Click Here (basisgames.blogspot.com) to check out Basis Games - Video Game/Console Reviews, Commentaries, and Analysis. Check it out!
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 176 days
Last activity: 176 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.40
    Originally posted by El Nastio
      Originally posted by lotjx
        Originally posted by samoflange
        Time travel fiction blows.


      Jules Vern,Back to the Future, Star Trek IV and Doctor Who says piss off.


    Also saying piss off; Terminator 1 & 2, Booster Gold's last series, and Our World's at War.


AND AND also saying piss off - the Futurama where Fry traveled back in time and became his own grandfather.



@BackoftheHead

www.backofthehead.com
samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 431 days
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.38
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    AND AND also saying piss off - the Futurama where Fry traveled back in time and became his own grandfather.


The only exception to my opinion.



Lloyd: When I met Mary, I got that old fashioned romantic feeling, where I'd do anything to bone her.
Harry: That's a special feeling.
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.22
So...many...ads.


Since I'm not a frequent poster in this forum, I don't want to violate any etiquette, so I'm spoiler tagging this.

Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
So, when the Flash finally shows up in Justice League, will it be just the freshman like me who get a headache, or will it be everybody?




You askew my mirror. I askew yours.
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Scottyflamingo
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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 521 days
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
I love time travel when used WELL. It is fun when it is well thought out and explained.

Look at Back to the Future. We know why Marty's mom is thin and Biff is a carwasher at the end. Everything is laid out and tied up. I'm not counting the sequels here as they got a bit sloppy.

DC is just doing what they want to do and saying "time travel". Well you might as well say "magic" like a five year old.

How much better would Flashpoint have been had they actually charted out everything and made logical changes?

Even if they had to go with something as extreme as Reverse Flash screwing with the Crisis on Infinate Earths to make the changes they wanted it would've been better than, "Yeah, Speedforce went crazy and Ms. Machina fixed it."

I doubt I'm making much sense, but it is just lazy writing that could have been easily rectified.
Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 511 days
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.87
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
    I love time travel when used WELL. It is fun when it is well thought out and explained.

    Look at Back to the Future. We know why Marty's mom is thin and Biff is a carwasher at the end. Everything is laid out and tied up. I'm not counting the sequels here as they got a bit sloppy.

    DC is just doing what they want to do and saying "time travel". Well you might as well say "magic" like a five year old.

    How much better would Flashpoint have been had they actually charted out everything and made logical changes?

    Even if they had to go with something as extreme as Reverse Flash screwing with the Crisis on Infinate Earths to make the changes they wanted it would've been better than, "Yeah, Speedforce went crazy and Ms. Machina fixed it."

    I doubt I'm making much sense, but it is just lazy writing that could have been easily rectified.

I've been trying to get my thoughts together, and I agree exactly. I didn't want to see them going back to the big bang again (that's been done too many times), but I need more explanation. Did the Speed Force cause tiny almost imperceptible changes that snowballed downhill into all the changes we see today? Did it bring alternative realities into existence (like Superboy-Prime punching the walls of his prison)?

I mentioned Barbara Gordon because before the end of "Flashpoint" was revealed, people were talking about how Barbara Gordon was going to be Batgirl again. Someone in charge said that they are not removing "The Killing Joke" from continuity. And people said, well, whatever is, we know it's not time travel, because Booster Gold tried that, and it didn't work, and someone told him that her injury was inevitable.

And now, what is the root cause of that, and everything else: time travel. This might all end up being great, but given what is known right now, I feel justified being skeptical.



I'm going to be walking in the National Kidney Foundation Kidney Walk in September, and I'm supposed to ask for donations. Links is at http://donate.kidney.org/site/TR/Walk/Wisconsin?px=1851193&pg=personal&fr_id=4180
Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 521 days
Last activity: 250 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
I was just thinking about how Flashpoint is not erasing Killing Joke from continuity. I suppose they can say that Killing Joke happened and that Barbara's paralysis was only temporary, but that takes a lot of gravity away from the story.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 4 days
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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.90
Killing Joke to me was always out of continuity since Batman does appear to kill Joker in the end. Yet, Babs' injury is so big that it needed to stay in. The easiest way to reboot the series while keeping Killing Joke is to say the entire DCU is all in Bruce's head after he kills Joker. Who else would have thought out the numerous scenarios we have seen in comics, but Batman. They didn't need to go all Speedforce time travel. They just needed to do some Easter eggs in various comic books to get us ready for a non-PR frenzy reveal that Bruce is in Arkham Asylum and has been in there since the 1990s. You reboot from there with all the heroes in different stages of their life. Sure, its the Bobby from Dallas dream sequence, but you can keep major plot points like Sinestro Corp War and Death of Superman. Because some of the scenarios Bruce thought of actually did happen. Plus, he was such a minor player him being there made no difference.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.





Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 431 days
Last activity: 424 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.38
That's a very cool, intriguing idea, but it seems too... simple for DC. They prefer cosmic, universe shattering plot devices over clever twists.



Lloyd: When I met Mary, I got that old fashioned romantic feeling, where I'd do anything to bone her.
Harry: That's a special feeling.
Cerebus
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Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 2 days
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.07
That's all well and good, but Geoff Johns doesn't like Batman. He likes Barry Allen and Hal Jordan and Aquaman. Aquaman sure as fuck isn't gonna be used for a story dealing in a big company wide, universe shattering story because all he can do is talk to fish. This leaves Hal and Barry. Hal was busy with other stuff so he used Barry who has already traveled through time.



Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
Mike Zeidler
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Since: 27.6.02

Since last post: 131 days
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.29
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Killing Joke to me was always out of continuity since Batman does appear to kill Joker in the end.


I... but... What?!?!?



"Tattoos are the mullets of the aughts." - Mike Naimark
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.90
    Originally posted by Mike Zeidler
      Originally posted by lotjx
      Killing Joke to me was always out of continuity since Batman does appear to kill Joker in the end.


    I... but... What?!?!?


Go back and look at the rain drops. Its pretty much designed to look that there is only person left standing. Even in the reprinted trade, Brian Bolland jokes about whether or not Batman kills him. Minus Jason's death where Bruce was legitimately going to kill Joker and Superman had to step in to stop him at times, Killing Joke was the only other time I could see Bruce outright killing Joker. It was the perfect situation. No one there to stop them, nothing in his way and Joker being caught off guard after Batman laughs.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.





Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 521 days
Last activity: 250 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
I never interpreted it as Batman killing Joker. To me the point was that Joker and Batman are both a little crazy. Joker tells the joke and Batman realizes that as screwed up as Joker is, there is a piece of him that is human. Whereas Batman is human, but a little piece of him is crazy. And for a brief moment, Joker tells a normal joke and Batman has a normal reaction.

And also, I remember a comic where Barbara makes a comment to Bruce about when the cops arrived at the end of KJ and Batman and Joker were standing there laughing.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 176 days
Last activity: 176 days
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43
Batman doesn't kill. Batman learned to laugh.

New 52 week 2 reviews ported to this thread (The W)

Thoughts on Detective Comics #1 now in this thread (The W)

(edited by John Orquiola on 8.9.11 0617)

@BackoftheHead

www.backofthehead.com
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 1 day
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
JLI was today? I completely missed it, but from the sound of it, I didn't miss much.

Dove into Batgirl and yeah, my only major turn-off was that her ability to walk was never explained. It was like they were just telling us, "After three years, Barbara can magically walk again, because...shut up, she can." I liked the plot device at the end, but it looks like one of those things that can get overused quite easily. Still, I like that Barbara has a kind of PTSD that'll always call into question whether she's capable of still being a hero or whether she'll voluntarily step down.

I wasn't particularly looking forward to Detective Comics, since Tony Daniel's a great artist, but a mediocre writer. And mediocrity shines through again, as a lot of the dialogue and internal monologue sounded cheesy as all hell. "Forget about it, Joker. You can't run. I OWN the night!" No, just...no.




"I brought SCIENCE!"
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