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23.9.14 0129
The W - Pro Wrestling - The Masterpiece
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sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 1943 days
Last activity: 644 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.78
Is anyone else sitting at home every week, watching Heat, and wondering what they are going to do with this guy? Even Coach is having trouble finding the upside of this guy to talk about every week when they parade him out for a short squash match.

I guess my question is for OVW fans. Does this guy HAVE an upside? Is there some reason he is being built up and protected? Or is is just a case of "We promoted the hell out of this guy, he broke someone's nose, and so now we're keeping him out of the spotlight until we finally get around to admitting we screwed up"?
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OMEGA
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Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1911 days
Last activity: 1879 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.65
I think it's a case of WWE thinking about the look first and worrying about talent second. Chris Masters has the look, but, at this point, it's too early for him to have been brought up. This is a mistake they've made several times in the past (and present). They have guys who either have no talent or guys who could be something one day, but they bring them up WAY too soon because they look at the body first and talent is an afterthought. Matt Morgan is an example of a guy who could be a big star, but was brought up WAY too soon back in 2003 and thus only lasted a couple months before being right back in OVW. It really doesn't do anybody any good, but is a mistake WWE seems to be making quite frequently.



The answer to WWE's financial problems...

Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.45
I'm trying to think of a recent guy who's gotten a big pre-debut push (with videos) that has panned out as a commodity. Mordecai, Nathan, Suzuki, Masters, Simon Dean, etc. Even Carlito has been on the sidelines for most of his on-air WWE tenure. I don't see Masters doing much in the near future unless he's given an Evolution slot.

I'd argue that while Hassan is obviously despised, it has nothing to do with his performance, but the gimmick and Davari.

Really the one new guy who's enjoyed prominent match and angle placement is Snitsky, a guy who came out of NOWHERE. Paul London has scrambled up the ladder without fanfare.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
too-old-now
Bockwurst








Since: 7.1.04

Since last post: 1268 days
Last activity: 193 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.59
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    I'm trying to think of a recent guy who's gotten a big pre-debut push (with videos) that has panned out as a commodity. Mordecai, Nathan, Suzuki, Masters, Simon Dean, etc. Even Carlito has been on the sidelines for most of his on-air WWE tenure. I don't see Masters doing much in the near future unless he's given an Evolution slot.

    I'd argue that while Hassan is obviously despised, it has nothing to do with his performance, but the gimmick and Davari.

    Really the one new guy who's enjoyed prominent match and angle placement is Snitsky, a guy who came out of NOWHERE. Paul London has scrambled up the ladder without fanfare.


I gotta disagree about Simon Dean. He had enough background and mic skills to handle the crappy gimmick they gave him, and he's made the best of it. Face it, a guy with Hurricane's build has 2 options - either be a spot machine and take sick bumps, or be a comedy act. The 'E is not asking Simon to challenge for the world title, they're asking him to reset fans emotions between better matches.

As for Hassan/Daivari, the gimmick is what gets the crowds chanting, part of the gimmick is that he's not being asked to do too much in the ring. Daivari's interference can be counted on to keep any Hassan match short.

Of the recent bunch, the best "new guy" to come from the rookies has to be Eugene - thanks to Regal the gimmick and storyline worked better than any of us expected. Eugene's actual wrestling ability had a lot to do with helping this storyline out.

Tyson "problem solver" Tomko is actually impressing me more as of late due to his better than average (usually) ability to sell for his opponent. He's done the job a number of times in tag matches that have often been in the top 2 best matches on the card. Given his size, his limited offence is believable, but too predictable. I'd like to see him learn a submission move, maybe he could steal the "Brock lock" or something that uses the power he looks like he has.

I'm surprised that London is not getting bigger reactions before his matches - usually the crowd is dead at first, but he does make them come alive. I hope his current mini-push continues and he stays on SD!, since I don't watch Velocity.

Since I don't watch Heat that often either, I can't say much on the Masterpiece, my only impression of him was that he's way too green, and the fans seem to agree with me.
hhhgamewmx7
Bockwurst








Since: 15.6.03
From: Eire

Since last post: 3235 days
Last activity: 3213 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.83
You can't really say Carlito has been a let down. I think he's brilliantly entertaining but i need to see more in ring action. Having him on TV every week with an injury shows how much WWE like him too. The same was happening for Randy Orton, he got the RNN updates through his injury and got pushed to the stars. Carlto could be the Orton of 2005.



Pizza Delivery Jones
Chourico








Since: 27.6.04

Since last post: 834 days
Last activity: 763 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.41
Carlito saved Piper's Pit at WM and made it entertaining...
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.45
My point about Carlito is that the pre-debut promos are a bad luck charm lately. I see them as the WWE giving a big push to someone who really needs it to work up crowd reaction. We can look back to Ultimo Dragon as a guy who seemed to have the goods but was killed by management.

I don't dislike Carlito but I haven't seen enough from him in the ring because he was hurt almost as soon as he won the title in his first on-air match. I hope, after all this coverage, he can impress us in the ring.

A few years back, Angle asked for a match from anyone in the locker room. Cena walks out, has a match, does well, begins his on-air career. Snitsky, while not what anyone would call a blue-chipper, appeared at first to be an entrance-less squash for Kane. If you didn't follow OVW, you would have had no idea about Brock before he walked into the three-way match and destroyed Spike Dudley. Let's connect this to the original thread point: We wouldn't be so disappointed in Masters had he not been pushed so hard in video segments. And popping Steveie didn't help either.

(edited by Matt Tracker on 11.4.05 1304)


"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Texas Kelly
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Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

Since last post: 18 days
Last activity: 3 days
ICQ:  
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.89
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Even Carlito has been on the sidelines for most of his on-air WWE tenure.

True, but that's completely the result of the injury Hardcore Holly gave him rather than any lack of in-ring talent, as Carlito quite clearly demonstrated in his month with the US title that he could hold up his end of things in that department. I'd dare to say that if not for the injury, we'd have never seen the spinner US belt, because Carlito wouldn't have lost it back to him.

Plus, Carlito's more than shown a strong ability to carry things in the promo department during his time recovering. There's a reason my two favorite wrestlers in the world now have their own dueling promo segments on each brand, and that's because Carlito's got the goods.

    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    We wouldn't be so disappointed in Masters had he not been pushed so hard in video segments. And popping Steveie didn't help either.

What surprised me more than anything was just how green he proved to be. I saw Masters kick off a RAW show in January (it was the taping in Long Island, the night of the debate between JR/King and Hassan/Daivari) and he not only got tremendous heat on his own (he was almost booed out of the building even before his "local" opponent was introduced) but worked a good, much less lumbering match with no sign of his current moveset. I want to say there's talent there, but my question is whether or not he decided to bottleneck himself up, or if creative ordered him to...



e-mail me at texas (dot) kelly (at) gmailread a bunch of incoherent nonsense
smark/net attack Advisory System is Elevatedsmark/net attack Advisory System Status is: Elevated
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Batista & John Cena represent instant upgrades over their predecessors as world champions. However, there's still a general state of backlash around Cena and a specific state over the way he won (however misguided it may be), and the usual tag/cruiserweight complaints persist. The rematches should be interesting, however...
Stablewars Championship Wrestling Presents: Exodus - A New Journey Begins
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Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.16

I think out of all the new talent shoved down our throats in the past months via "Coming Soon" vignettes, Carlito is head & shoulders above everyone else. The guys has much charisma and comes from a great wrestling bloodline.

I'm not saying he's the next Rock or Stone Cold, but the guys got a chance to be one of the company's top main event guys in the future.

And I'm still not giving up on Chris Masters becoming a pet project of Triple H ...




BABY BOY MAYHEM

Summer 2005
sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 1943 days
Last activity: 644 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.78
Okay, after tonight I'm convinced that the guy has a relative who's high up in the WWE hierarchy. Random jobber squashes do not belong on RAW.
BigSteve
Pepperoni








Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 2811 days
Last activity: 2539 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.37
Masters may well suck, I'll give you that much, but I'm hesitant to make that call not having seen him work a match that goes longer than two minutes. His promos have been passable, so I say why not way until we know he's bad to accuse him of sucking.

And yes, Carlito does have a large future on Smackdown. Depending on how long Cena holds the title, I could definately see Carlito vs Cena headlining a Pay Per View by the end of 2005 (maybe No Mercy or Armageddon...?).



History of the WWE (angelfire.com)
PostModernBoy
Cotechino








Since: 5.2.03

Since last post: 3312 days
Last activity: 3052 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
I eagerly await the fued between the Masterlock and Triple H's sleeper
sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 1943 days
Last activity: 644 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.78
    Originally posted by BigSteve
    Masters may well suck, I'll give you that much, but I'm hesitant to make that call not having seen him work a match that goes longer than two minutes. His promos have been passable, so I say why not way until we know he's bad to accuse him of sucking.


I guess that's part of my point. They bring a guy in like they did, he screws up apparently badly enough that they don't want to put him in there with a main guy (I'm assuming that their plan wasn't to put him over random jobbers for weeks on end), and so instead of just sending him back to OVW they keep him around for weeks, just feeding him random losers. To me, this says "This guy slept with someone high up in the company."
Phantom
Frankfurter








Since: 17.3.02

Since last post: 2345 days
Last activity: 2321 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.86
    Originally posted by Mayhem

    I think out of all the new talent shoved down our throats in the past months via "Coming Soon" vignettes, Carlito is head & shoulders above everyone else. The guys has much charisma and comes from a great wrestling bloodline.

    I'm not saying he's the next Rock or Stone Cold, but the guys got a chance to be one of the company's top main event guys in the future.

    And I'm still not giving up on Chris Masters becoming a pet project of Triple H ...

The only other people I can think of who debuted after a series of “Coming Soon” vignettes and had an impact would be the already-established guys like Rey Mysterio, Jr. and Goldberg.
Snookum
Kishke








Since: 19.6.03
From: Louisville

Since last post: 2608 days
Last activity: 2589 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.49
I watch the OVW show each week and usually attend the shows live every so often, so I can probably speak on this. When Masters was in OVW, I thought he was okay, but never saw him and said to myself, "Oh, they'll have him up in WWE soon!" Besides, he spent most of his time in a tag-team when in OVW, so that's a hard way to judge anyone's ability to move up.

The weird thing is that I've heard stories from people involved with OVW pertaining to some of these guys. It seems like the ones being suggested to move up, rarely are, and ones that OVW believes need more seasoning are brought up anyway. Matt Morgan is a perfect example - Cornette had even said in some interviews that Morgan was on the way, but not quite ready. Meanwhile, Morgan himself even knew he wasn't ready and would keep coming back to Louisville each week he was appearing in WWE to appear on OVW television and work the houseshows. When he came back, it was like he never left (and, funny enough, they're now using that whole "was in WWE/now back in OVW" thing as his storyline in OVW). Frankly, Mogran's problem was "guilt by association," being stuck with Nathan Jones, who was dumped into OVW AFTER he appeared in WWE. So, Morgan lucked out in having to come back anyway.

So many of these guys are being brought up with just lousy gimmicks. If they had Masters work with, say, Charlie Haas over on Smackdown in mat-wrestling, he would probably be getting over much better than he is now. Rico was a perfect wrestler in many ways, and WWE threw their chances away with him (and, yet, even the horrible gimmick he was given couldn't kill fans' appreciation for him). Seven was great as a comedic heel, so they try to turn him into Undertaker-lite. Batista was groomed in OVW as "the next big thing," was Lesnar was considered ... well, someone even casual OVW fans didn't think much of (meanwhile, they thought his partner, Shelton Benjamin, was great). So who does WWE push? Lesnar, in the role Batista was playing in OVW, while Batista was pushed as a deacon. Wha-? And who turned out to respect the business and is still around? Meanwhile, Benjamin is finally getting the build-up he should have gotten a year or so ago.

I see some great people in OVW, and am amazed at how WWE just doesn't seem to pay any attention to who is going over in OVW and instead just picks people seemingly at random to come up and then throw crummy gimmicks at them.

BTW, the jobber on RAW this week was Seth Skyfire from OVW. A pretty talented guy who has been around for about a year and a half now in OVW. He's small, but a good highflyer and could be one to watch out for in the years to come.

Anyway, that's my two cents on the whole thing. I wish Masters well, but I'm seeing more problems with the way WWE is trying to bring him in than with him overall.




(edited by Snookum on 12.4.05 1149)

(edited by Snookum on 12.4.05 1150)
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I had given up on it, but last few weeks have been great, and even the "Cartoon" Spots have been working. 2 Weeks back, primo got caught between Tensai and Clay, so looked at the camera, shrugged, and took a Sandwich Avalanche like a champ.
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