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The W - Print - The KILLING Joke
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 148 days
Last activity: 148 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.17
The other day Grant Morrison told Kevin Smith that Batman killed The Joker at the end of The Killing Joke. (bleedingcool.com) This was corroborated by a couple of other people, one of whom wrote a book saying so.

Bleeding Cool (bleedingcool.com) does a further investigation, including the script of the final page.

Personally, I don't believe Batman did it. He's no Man of Steel (ahem). No, but seriously, I'd like to think Batman did it (backofthehead.com) but I don't buy that's how The Killing Joke ended.



"Cody, I mustache you a question." - The Miz
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 14 min.
Last activity: 14 min.
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
It has always been my contention that Batman did kill Joker. So, this is one of the few times that I agree with Grant Morrison, mark the calenders, kids. My friend and I had a good conversation about it on our podcast.

(edited by lotjx on 17.8.13 0929)

(edited by lotjx on 17.8.13 0931)

The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 53 min.
Last activity: 4 min.
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.85
It couldn't have happened. Killing Joke is in continuity. Batgirl was in the wheelchair until 2011 because of that comic yet Joker was very not dead.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 14 min.
Last activity: 14 min.
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
The thing I always say, is you make your own continuity. The comics have screwed up comics even before they tried to "fix" it that its up to you the reader now. For my money, Batman killed the original Joker that night and who has been screwing with him later is someone else. A guy pretending to be Joker, but far more vicious.

Neither one speaks about it. If they did which almost happened in Death of the Family is that it would break both of them. There is this unholy bound between the two. For my money, my continuity is:

Year Zero (maybe), Year One, Long Halloween, Dark Victory and then the entire run including some of the animated series then Dark Knight Returns then Batman Beyond. No Strike Back will never make the list. Another thing Grant and I will never agree on.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
bubblesthechimp
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Since: 22.3.02
From: Weymouth, Ma

Since last post: 32 days
Last activity: 37 min.
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
As someone who has really been playing catch up with the Batman Mythos over the past year I have a question about the Gordon family. In the New 52 James Jr is the younger of the Gordon siblings; has that always been the case? Year one puts him as the first Born, and would also imply that Batman has been doing the Batman thing for at least 20 years.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 53 min.
Last activity: 4 min.
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.85
    Originally posted by bubblesthechimp
    As someone who has really been playing catch up with the Batman Mythos over the past year I have a question about the Gordon family. In the New 52 James Jr is the younger of the Gordon siblings; has that always been the case? Year one puts him as the first Born, and would also imply that Batman has been doing the Batman thing for at least 20 years.


If you're talking about the Miller/Mazzucchelli Year One, I don't think that connects to the New 52 era.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 148 days
Last activity: 148 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.17
    Originally posted by bubblesthechimp
    As someone who has really been playing catch up with the Batman Mythos over the past year I have a question about the Gordon family. In the New 52 James Jr is the younger of the Gordon siblings; has that always been the case? Year one puts him as the first Born, and would also imply that Batman has been doing the Batman thing for at least 20 years.


The purpose of the ongoing Zero Year storyline by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo in Batman (currently in issue 3 of 11) is to provide a definitive origin for the New 52 Batman. Basically, Year One is no longer the origin of Batman in the New 52. As you pointed out, there are numerous problems with the timeline if Year One were still canon: James Gordon's age, Bruce Wayne's age, how there can be four Robins if Batman has only been active for six years, etc. Just enjoy Year One for the great origin story that it is, but it's no longer Batman's canon origin in the current continuity.

(edited by John Orquiola on 20.8.13 0923)


"Cody, I mustache you a question." - The Miz
bubblesthechimp
Boudin rouge








Since: 22.3.02
From: Weymouth, Ma

Since last post: 32 days
Last activity: 37 min.
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
Im not much worried about the new 52. I know that is pretty much "whatever DC wants in is in." The question I have is has James Jr. always been the youngest even pre 52 or is that something that they retconned for that.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 148 days
Last activity: 148 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.17
Old DCU: James Gordon, Jr. was only child of James Gordon and Barbara Eileen Gordon. Barbara Gordon (Batgirl/Oracle) adopted.

New 52: "In this new version of history, Barbara Gordon is the biological daughter of James Gordon and Barbara Eileen Gordon. This makes her also the biological older sister of James Jr. and retcons their relationship"

This (dc.wikia.com) should answer your questions.



"Cody, I mustache you a question." - The Miz
dWs
Chorizo








Since: 26.2.09
From: Humpty Doo, Australia

Since last post: 21 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.00
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    It couldn't have happened. Killing Joke is in continuity. Batgirl was in the wheelchair until 2011 because of that comic yet Joker was very not dead.

I agree. Yet, I would think Denny O'Neil, Batman editor at the time, would be the deciding factor on whether or not there was intent to kill Joker in this story.

I was a little shocked when the Killing Joke was written into "regular" DCU continuity. Just a year or two before "Killing Joke", "Batman: Son of the Demon" came out and it was declared to NOT be in continuity by O'Neil.

In the late 90's, once O'Neil had left his Bat-editing duties, Batman's offspring from "Son of the Demon" began to creep back into "regular" continuity. First with "Son of the Bat" in 1998's "The Kingdom" event and culminating with Damien Wayne, circa 2007.

It's the not the first time DC has done a buffet effect with the Joker and Killing Joke. In 1999, at the end of "No Man's Land", Commissioner Gordon put a bullet into Joker's leg at close range, as revenge for "Killing Joke". Joker even laughed and said something like" good one, Commish. Just like your daughter"! This was supposed to be a debilitating leg injury for Joker, but he appeared a few months later, none the worse for wear.

Looking at the "evidence" of how Joker was supposed to die, I don't buy it. The ambiguous palm stare by Batman is the key point, but I always had the understanding that Joker was immune to the weird toxins he liked to use.



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