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31.10.14 0424
The W - Pro Wrestling - The InVasion: One Year Later
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Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 313 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#1 Posted on
I was watching InVasion last night...and I got to thinking: What was the point? I mean, if you think about it, there was no good reason for the WCW guys to even be at the shows. When the InVasion began, Stephanie and Shane were WWF stockholders. They were legally allowed to be at events, and could do whatever they wanted because they were stockholders. And seeing as all the WWF wrestlers had contracts, they were allowed at arenas, too. Lance Storm invaded, that's trespassing and assault Hugh Morrus, Booker T: more trespassing and assault. And of all the InVasion fellers, only the ECW alumni with WWF contracts were legally allowed at the arenas. So, what the hell? Why did they keep allowing them to show up? Why Linda's stupid "Are you afraid of competition, Vince?" promo? OF COURSE HE WAS AFRAID! He's the only game in town, and wants to keep it that way! And as for JR & MC's repeated "this could very well mean the end of the WWF as we know it" line... How could it mean the end? Nothing was on the line? How retarded would the fictional WWF executive committee have to be to give title shots to PEOPLE NOT EVEN IN THE DAMNED COMPANY?

Breaking Down InVasion:
Storm/Awesome vs. Edge/Christian: Pointless match. Shouldn't have happened, seeing as Storm/Awesome didn't have contracts.
Patrick vs. Hebner: Patrick=WCW, WCW=no WWF contract, no WWF contract=no match
Palumbo/O'Haire vs. APA: see above
X-Pac vs. Kidman: see above
Raven vs. Regal: makes sense, but put something on the line...like, if Regal wins, Raven's contract is null and void.
Show/Gunn/Albert vs. Stasiak/Kanyon/Morrus: no contracts
Tazz vs. Tajiri: same stips as Regal/Raven to put something on the line
Hardy vs. RVD: good match, but utterly pointless.
Women's Match: utterly pointless, with or without contracts
Rhyno/Booker T/DDP/Dudleyz vs. Austin/Angle/Jericho/Taker/Kane: Well, only Rhyno & the Dudleyz had contracts...so, you could've taken out Taker/Kane and put them elsewhere...but it's a pointless match as NOTHING WAS ON THE LINE. Pride? Screw pride! The announcers were selling the show as The End of the Wrestling World As We Know It, but nothing changed. I was thinking that if the nWo came in with three guys, and started recruiting guys and taking belts and trying to literally TAKE OVER, it would've been more climatic than the InVasion because something was on the line. The Alliance won belts...so what? Nothing was at stake! You can buy new belts for $200! But by taking over the promotion...then you run the ruling powers out of business.

Let's just call the InVasion a colossal failure with two bright spots named Booker T and RVD and settle it.




"That's what the Internet is for, slandering others anonymously" Banky Edwards (Jason Lee), Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back

"Smile." Maguire (Jude Law), Road to Perdition
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The Vile One
Chourico








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 4453 days
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#2 Posted on
Booker T got buried pretty hard during the InVasion. RVD was one of the only "ALLIANCE" wrestlers that beat people and got to look strong.




"It is a strange fate that we suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing."
-Boromir
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 313 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#3 Posted on
When Booker T was entering the arena for the Inaugural Brawl [Stupid name, btw], J.R. kept going on about how he "thought Booker T had talent and class at one point, but now knows that he's a piece of trash with no class at all" [paraphrased]. And now he's, like, the #1 face on RAW. Ah, the changes a year could bring... I'm still wondering if the InVasion would've sucked as bad if HHH and Benoit were around... Benoit, I'd say, would've been the first guy to defect to WCW.



"That's what the Internet is for, slandering others anonymously" Banky Edwards (Jason Lee), Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back

"Smile." Maguire (Jude Law), Road to Perdition
WyldeWolf1
Boerewors








Since: 20.6.02
From: Florida

Since last post: 4439 days
Last activity: 4439 days
#4 Posted on
As much as I hate to contribute to yet another "Invasion gone wrong" thread, I'd like to tackle the Benoit/HHH question.

If HHH wasn't injured, the WWF probably would have stuck to its plan of Benoit/Jericho going over the 2 Man Power Trip. So you would have possibly had Benoit or Jericho with the WWF title.

Booker comes in, claiming the WCW title.

If I was booking, I have Benoit lay claim to the title (since he had it and was never defeated), calling the decision reversal a load of crap. Assuming he was the Canadian Chris with the WWF title, you have a very compelling story for the unification of the belts.

Then, if Booker unifies the title at the PPV (I think the unification/reduction of titles was a good thing), you're looking at a pretty nasty force invading the WWF (provided other people go over as well).



WyldeWolf1
The Man of 1,007 holds, making him 3 holds better than Chris Jericho!
RawLo
Salami








Since: 9.7.02
From: San Diego, CA

Since last post: 3713 days
Last activity: 2958 days
#5 Posted on
I think the Invasion failed because it wasn't what the fans thought it could be. They talked of "Finally ....WWF vs. WCW"
True, but we're thinking Austin vs. Goldberg or Sting vs. Rock.

Not Kane vs. Hugh Morrus.

ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 134 days
Last activity: 7 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
“...provided other people go over as well.”

And therein lies the fundamental reason why the InVasion flopped so badly-- Vince wouldn't allow WCW/ECW wrestlers to get over on a regular basis at the expense of WWF wrestlers. I remember at least two separate RAWs in which three or more titles changed hands from Alliance members to WWF wrestlers.

After the inVasion PPV, the Alliance became less about WCW and ECW wrestlers and became the Stone Cold Steve Austin show. And I don't think it had to be that way. With the way that Booker T and Rob Van Dam have become marketable superstars today, I'm certain they could have led the Alliance without the need to have Steve Austin run the show.

But nooo.

Another fundamental reason why the inVasion failed, as RawLo mentioned, was that Vince McMahon wasn't willing to dish out the big bucks to get the big names during the inVasion. Goldberg, Sting, Hogan, Steiner. I think Jeff Jarrett would have been a major benefit to the Alliance, but Vince is pretty much done with him. And if they'd managed to get Ric Flair even four months earlier than they did, they would have had him right near the start of the inVasion.

But nooo. Instead of even trying to build up the brand, they shat on it a few more times before discarding it forever. Well... it's their loss.



“And each and every one of you, when you see me, you will not put your eyes directly on me-- you will look to the ground and you will refer to me as 'Lord Master.'”

Kevin Nash, January 17, 2000

Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02

AndrewGilkison
Linguica








Since: 20.6.02

Since last post: 3480 days
Last activity: 2755 days
#7 Posted on
They should've made Booker T the leader of the Alliance, and put the WWF belt on him at SummerSlam and let WWF main eventers chase him (with Booker keeping the belt) until WrestlemaniaX8, instead of trying to recapture the magic of Hogan's 1996 heel turn with Austin. I mean Booker was able to turn Angle into a babyface two weeks before the Invasion because the WWF fans viewed him as an outsider from WCW that represented everything WWF was not (he was really over as a heel before all that comedy in The Rock feud killed it), and the WWF fans just didn't want to pay to see a heel Steve Austin, period.

Making the WCW/ECW side look a hell of a lot stronger would've really helped this storyline. The nWo beat the shit out of WCW in every way possible for the first six months of the angle to get them over as lethal supervillian threats, and it made the angle that much more successful. Too bad Vince didn't want to upset anyone in the WWF locker room by... GASP... jobbing some of the old guys like Undertaker and old "no upside" mid-carders like the APA out and not giving them their wins back the next show just because some of the WCW guys didn't say hi to Droz backstage. What's more important, a successful money making angle, or a happy locker room? You decide.

Too much comedy and not enough drama is no way to do an Invasion angle involving two brands that used to be legit wrestling companies trying to take over the WWF. I mean Mighty Molly was a horrible use of Nora's talents as was that whole stupid Spike/Hurricane feud, and that feud with Raven and Saturn over killing Moppy was just not getting over with the fans. Booker T doing stupid comedy bits involving him trying get into a movie to put over his feud with The Rock was dumb, dumb, dumb. Really took away any reason fans had to get emotionally involved in the feud as they kept "joking" with us.

Consent heel/face turns and title switches every week didn't help either. Real turns on Angle on week, and Angle then turns on WWF two weeks later. Jericho wins the WCW Title from The Rock at a PPV, which was a huge mark out moment made meaningless a week later when Rock regained it for no good reason. The whole thing became a mess.

And the kiss of death for the angle was the overuse (and that is an understatement) of Shane and Stephanie McMahon. Stephanie never should've went TEN FEET of this angle, and Flair should've tricked Shane to into signing WCW over to him so Vince and WWF would've been forced to twart off the dirtiest player in the game. I mean a WCW/ECW team with Flair and Heyman at the helm would've been awesome as hell, and could've created some fun headaches for Vince and the WWF. Instead we got Stephanie and Shane out there pretending they were actual stars that people wanted to see, wrestling guys like The Rock and Angle in matches (remember that time Stephanie PINNED Rock... good god), and basically taking TV time from the talent. What a joke.

This whole thing still be going on TODAY if they did it right, but it was mercy killed six months into it because Vince just wanted to make it like every other angle he was doing that year, which was McMahon vs. McMahon feuds and more Rock/Austin and HHH/Austin matches, and comedic feuds and angles as apposed to feuds and angles done in a way that draw money. What a waste of time it turned out to be.

Thanks Vince.



"Not a great worker, but one hell of a gimmick"
WhoBettahThanDeion
Bockwurst








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 4392 days
Last activity: 4228 days
#8 Posted on
In hindsight we could have ALL booked the Invasion better. Vince didn't want to make himself of the WWF brand look weak. Hell, watch the RAW/Smackdown draft if you wanna' see that.

As for the trespassing and assault argument that's just dumb. Then why was Triple H on tv a month after being dropped by a crane in that car? Shouldn't have he been dead? Why was Rikishi never arrested for hitting Austin? I mean, you just have to understand and be willing to put up with the fact that "it's wrestling" sometimes. I'm not talking in the "the storyline doesn't make sense" sense, (ala' two man power trip soon after Austina and Triple H were fighting to the death because Triple H tried to end his career) I'm talking about suspension of disbelief. You've got to be willing to put away your thoughts on technical crap sometimes to enjoy this stuff.

(edited by WhoBettahThanDeion on 24.7.02 2047)


I got two blips on my Ha-dar. Shoot 'em down!

The next time I hear you say "glass ceiling" or you complain about someone being shoved down their throats, I'm gonna take that glass ceiling and shove it down your throat.

Tom Dean
Bockwurst








Since: 30.8.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 3314 days
Last activity: 2683 days
AIM:  
#9 Posted on
Here is something that is rarely discussed. As I'm sure everyone remembers, WCW was originally intended to be faces feuding with heel Vince. After the crowd shat on the Booker/Bagwell match, the powers that be turned WCW heel. Everyone concentrates on the fact that heel WCW was not ever made to be a serious threat to WWF. That is very much true once it got to that point, BUT, I think the real shame about it was that it got to that point in the first place.

Because, the best case scenario for this was not merely that WWF fans have an entertaining plotline to follow for a few months. The best case scenario was to actually get the old WCW audience watching WWF programming. That is why WWF bought WCW out, presumably... to attract their audience, and to get a 10.0 rating every week or whatever the combination of Raw & Nitro would be.

To get the old WCW fans to watch, WCW had to be faces.

So what would WCW have to do to get over as faces? They would have to feud with Vince, along with Angle and whoever Vince's boys were at the time. In other words, WCW should have been feuding with the WWF heels.

But that's not what the powers that be chose to do. Instead, they did that weird thing where WCW ran a separate sub-show within the WWF show. WWF fans, in what you would have thought would be a completely predictable reaction, wouldn't accept that.

I have to figure that the reason they did it that way is because they wanted to save the first interpromotional matches for the PPV. So that little bit of greed, in my opinion, cost them many, many times over.

Anyway. To answer what I think was the original poster's point, I think the logic was that since the Steph/Shane consortium (WOO! The consortium! WOOOOO! The consortium!!!) owned 50% of the WWF, wrestlers under contract to them had as much right to be in the WWF as wrestlers under contract to Vince/Linda.



"How YOU Doin'?"
- Tom Dean, weekly at [slash]
"History is being make-ed... somebody here is getting their head completely shaved off"
- David McLane, PPV opening promo

gonna build a giant drill and bore straight into hell releasing ancient demons from their sleep-forever spell so they can walk upon the earth and get recituated and run the diet pill pyramid that MC Pee Pants has created
Busyman14
Cotechino








Since: 24.2.02
From: Weston, Florida

Since last post: 4430 days
Last activity: 4415 days
#10 Posted on

    Originally posted by T.R.
    Anyway. To answer what I think was the original poster's point, I think the logic was that since the Steph/Shane consortium (WOO! The consortium! WOOOOO! The consortium!!!) owned 50% of the WWF, wrestlers under contract to them had as much right to be in the WWF as wrestlers under contract to Vince/Linda.


Tweek before Invasion, Steph and Shane were having a pep talk with the as yet not-named Alliance.

From CRZ's recap:

Stephanie: "I hope that every single one of you understands how important this Sunday, that inVasion will be. Because there are no other chances for us - this is our last chance. When nobody else believed in you - when nobody else would believe in your ability, Shane and I have. We believed in you so much that we have SOLD our WWF stock. We've invested all of our money - we have nothing left but all of you. And this Sunday at inVasion, it is up to every one of you to take out the WWF forever."

Hence they had no right to be in any WWF event. The only acceptable explanation is that Vince let them, which in storyline terms makes him look like a complete moron.


Tom Dean
Bockwurst








Since: 30.8.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 3314 days
Last activity: 2683 days
AIM:  
#11 Posted on
Well, then Flair (the guy to whom they sold their 50%) was the guy allowing it.

Or... weren't Linda and Vince getting divorced at that time? Maybe Linda, who had equal ownership to Vince, was trying to make Vince's life hell.

Either one of those is kinda sorta reasonable.



"How YOU Doin'?"
- Tom Dean, weekly at [slash]
"History is being make-ed... somebody here is getting their head completely shaved off"
- David McLane, PPV opening promo

gonna build a giant drill and bore straight into hell releasing ancient demons from their sleep-forever spell so they can walk upon the earth and get recituated and run the diet pill pyramid that MC Pee Pants has created
Rad T
Cotto








Since: 19.6.02
From: Pittsburgh

Since last post: 4329 days
Last activity: 4329 days
#12 Posted on
If you ask me the problem with the Invasion was that there were too many wrestlers in the WCW/ECW "faction". The faction would have been perfect for an organization if the WWF ever got a real WCW federation running on their own, but when you have like 30 to 40 guys invading in one big angle, it's hard to keep track of everything and gets watered down. And also, like Bischoff said and like some other people said, you were watching a watered down version of WCW, not Goldberg or Hogan or Sting.

Look at the nWo and you'll see the same thing. They were great through like '97, but then they started adding a bunch of lower card guys to the group for no reason, and the nWo got watered down.

But when you think about it, did the Invasion ever have a real chance? WCW was in such bad shape in the end that it was only a matter of time before it was shut down and to be honest a lot of people like myself didn't watch very much of it anymore. Like RawLo said, it wasn't the WWF vs. WCW that everyone always wanted. The main event at Invasion only had two real WCW big names in it, and although they were all right names, they weren't THE names on the level of Hogan, Flair, Goldberg, Sting. Maybe if they waited they could have had Hogan, Flair, Nash, Hall and all those guys invade but it would have took too long and the angle probably wouldn't have worked that long after the shutdown of WCW either.

It was tough to pull off, but at least it's in the past.

-Rad T
VK Wallstreet
Goetta








Since: 18.6.02
From: New York, NY, USA

Since last post: 4346 days
Last activity: 4345 days
#13 Posted on
The problem with the Invasion was that none of it made any sense. Absolutely everything was an inconsistency. I know, I know, nothing makes sense in wrestling, but that made even less sense than usual. Much less sense. Like, what was the Alliance? Was it one company? Was it two? How could WWF officials referee WCW title matches? Why wouldn't Vince just pull the plug on the WCW guys on his show? (Shane and Stephanie sold out to Flair, remember?) How could guys jump from one company to another? Weren't they under contract? Were WWF wrestlers who jumped to the Alliance still under contract to the WWF? Couldn't they be fired, then? Were they under contract to WCW? Were they under contract to ECW? What are they fighting for in non-title matches? Why would they even agree to these matches? Why would they agree to defend their titles against guys from competing companies?

Nobody ever answered any of these questions. There was no motivation and no logic, so it became a joke.



¡Azúcar, flores y muchos colores! Estos fueron los ingredientes elegidos para crear a la niñita perfecta. Pero el profesor Utonio agrego accidentalmente otro ingrediente a la formula: ¡la sustancia X! Y así nacieron, ¡las Chicas Superpoderosas! ¡Con sus ultra súper poderes, Bombón, Burbuja y Bellota dedican su vida a combatir el crimen y las fuerzas del mal!
The Great Thomas
Sujuk








Since: 17.6.02
From: Miami, Florida

Since last post: 3384 days
Last activity: 3384 days
#14 Posted on
Not to mention that I hated the fact that everyone in the Alliance were being portrayed as heels. Lemme ask you, who didn't hate that?



"an then BOOKER T tole Godlust he was a SUCKA! OMG! LOLOLOL! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! that was a realy good segmnt."

-411wrestling according to OlFuzzyBastard
AJ_Levy
Mettwurst








Since: 31.3.02

Since last post: 3878 days
Last activity: 3875 days
#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by RawLo
    I think the Invasion failed because it wasn't what the fans thought it could be. They talked of "Finally ....WWF vs. WCW"
    True, but we're thinking Austin vs. Goldberg or Sting vs. Rock.

    Not Kane vs. Hugh Morrus.




Damn straight.

Just imagine Scott Hall just walking in through the crowd during some forgettable match on Raw, attacking everyone and then grabbing a mike and going "Hey Yo... Gettin a feelin of De-ja-vu?"

***

Austin is beating up someone at the end of the show, BANG... BANG... BANG BANG BANG! IN COMES GOLBERG! GOLDBERG LOCKS UP WITH AUSTIN!!!

***

WWF Superstars all run in and then, through the crowd IN COMES STING!

***

Vince confronts Shane, saying he doesn't have a clue on how to run a wrestling company. Says that's true, but he has someone who does to be his commish after the break. After the break, Bischoff comes out!

***

Vince takes the ring and cuts an interview, talking about Shane, Bischoff, and how the WWF will in. He then whynges about being screwed by Shane, and starts talking about ethics. *BANG* he gets knocked out from behind by BRET HART!

***

Another boring match, half-way through, Raven, Kidman, Saturn, and Kanyon walk through the crowd and take ringside seats...

***

This is how the Invasion angle should have looked, and there could have been dozens more mark-out moments along the way. Throughout the late '90s, Austin vs Goldberg became the new Flair vs Hogan dream match. And if you had've mentioned WCW vs WWf to anyone, mark out moments like the ones above would come to people's imagination.

Yet instead of having mark-out moments and Dream matches filling every other card to Wrestlemania and a nice start to the roster split, we got the watered down Invasion angle.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 80 days
Last activity: 80 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
Two things:

1)ECW/WCW wrestlers were allowed on TV by Vince because Stone Cold convinced Vince it was a good idea (of course, we never got to hear Ausin's reasoning, he just whispered in McMahon's ear).

2)How could Flair have been the one allowing Steph/Shane on TV considering Vince seemingly knew nothing about any other owner before the November RAW when Flair showed up?



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
shea
Bockwurst








Since: 1.2.02
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 4007 days
Last activity: 3893 days
#17 Posted on
What is this, a Trekkie convention? Constantly going over these details with a fine tooth comb is insane!

Tell you one thing, though: It makes me sick knowing that Vince used the inVasion angle (which by all rights coulda/shoulda/woulda been HUGE) merely as a backdrop to ONCE AGAIN put over himself, his daughter, and Steve Austin. What an idiot, and what a waste.

and, oh yeah, damn them all to hell

BretHart1985
Tocino








Since: 25.7.02
From: NYC

Since last post: 4436 days
Last activity: 4422 days
#18 Posted on
The reason that the InVasion failed, In my humble opinion, was timing.

All the guys you all said should have been involved were still under contract when the InVasion angle started last year. Think about it. Hall, Hogan, Nash, Bischoff, and Flair were all signed after Survivor Series 2001.

The WWE rushed things, anybody else would have done the same thing. They rushed the angle rather than waiting for guys who could make it great. The WWE is a great organization. They have fuckups now and then but you all make it seem like they have committed crimes. I didn't think the InVasion angle was that bad.

WWE TV right now is not that bad. I don't understand why they keep paying some of the wrestlers or give them tv time but I can live with that.

Now if only the Hitman returned to the WWE, THEN THINGS WOULD BE PERFECT.
Tom Dean
Bockwurst








Since: 30.8.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 3314 days
Last activity: 2683 days
AIM:  
#19 Posted on
Well, they shoulda opened up the pocketbook then. AOL was not dying to pay guys NOT to wrestle... I'm sure they would have been happy to let WWF assume their contracts. I think it would have paid off many, many times over.



"How YOU Doin'?"
- Tom Dean, weekly at [slash]
"History is being make-ed... somebody here is getting their head completely shaved off"
- David McLane, PPV opening promo

gonna build a giant drill and bore straight into hell releasing ancient demons from their sleep-forever spell so they can walk upon the earth and get recituated and run the diet pill pyramid that MC Pee Pants has created
Scorpio
Boudin rouge








Since: 18.2.02
From: Laurel, MD, USA

Since last post: 3872 days
Last activity: 3823 days
#20 Posted on

OMG, the Invasion failed?!

I thought they all just went undergruond, and were gonna reform ANY DAY NOW in a SHOCKING SWERVE.




PMMJ

"Nothing remains interesting where anything may happen." -H.G. Wells

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Some highs, some lows... * They're still playing up the "Foley is a coward" angle. Boo hoo, the Dudleys are distraught. * Wow - massive loss of heat when Mark Henry broke up Booker T's stick time. * Sign Of The Night:
- Stephanie, RAW 12/29 - Auld Stone Syne (2003)
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