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The W - Pro Wrestling - The Hogan-Jarrett Feud BEGINS!!! (Page 2)
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BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.86
The whole point here is exposure, not how good of a match Hogan can put on. I'm sure the Hogan/Jarrett match itself will be a bit of a struggle, but the point is the name Hulk Hogan means more to more people than all the A. J. Styles', Raven's, and Jeff Jarrett's put together. The idea is to use Hogan's name to get people to look, then use the rest of the roster to get those people hooked. You can put on **** matches every time out, but if no one is watching and no one knows about it, it doesn't mean a thing for the bottom line. Hogan isn't being brought in to save the product, he's being brought in to get people who haven't seen it before to check it out.
Ubermonkeys
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02
From: Michigan

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43


And we all should be willing to wait and see what happens before we end up making some kind of sarcastic-cool guy comments. They mean absolute shit.

Sarcastic yes. If I ever seem like I'm trying to be cool, you have every right to call me on it, because I'm really not trying to be. I'm just trying to effectively express myself on how stupid I think of an idea I think bringing Hogan in is. Russo has proven himself over and over again to live for the now, not for the long term. Hogan might get that initial buyrate for the first few weeks, but like Lurking Horror said, he had no drawing power in WWE, where he had millions and millions of marketing dollars backing him all the way. He doesn't have that to fall back on now. Is the groundswell of support really here for him on the net, where the majority of people know about everything he's done and have a general hatred for him? And is he going to walk in and out of that locker room every Wednesday without leaving any of his famous political bullshit behind? I guess we'll see. (The answer is no. How many times to people have to be fooled?)

The thing that stands out and bugs me the most about this was that for all the absolute shit Vince Russo has brought into the wrestling world, he always had one thing he stood by- he was the only man that told Hulk Hogan to go fuck himself and got his ass out of wrestling. The sad thing is that they're both such three-faced shit-eating assholes that no matter what, if somebody thinks they can make money on the deal, they'll do it.

The bottom line is that Hogan is worthless without Vince McMahon, and is barely worth anything WITH him. It took Hogan being reinvented in WCW as a heel just to save his career there. And hey, go ask Jimmy Hart how the XWF is doing these days. Remember how awesome that was with Hogan on board? The memories. (You also might want to go check out an old XWF roster page and notice how familiar it looks. Even the security guy Kevin Northcutt was there! Thank god Josh Matthews got out.

And I was speaking in terms of angle. And that's the difference between being willing to buy into an angle and not. Either go along or don't, and if you don't, dont comment on it.

So I guess roughly 80 percent of the board's posts are contemptable by your judgment? The SmackDown thread from this past week is going to be a hell of a lot shorter now. And let's get rid of Meltzer, Keller, Scherer, Ryder, and hell, anybody that's talked about wrestling ever.

BTW, if you've ever heard people talk about the phenomenon that was Rikidozan, when they got to watch him first hand (like my mom did), and what it meant to people in Japan at the time, you don't need to be a Mr. Tenay, Mr. Monkey. And one MORE thing, gaijin is a Japanese word used to refer to foreigners, not just workers. That is all-- and please, sarcasm doesn't work. It just covers for the lack of intellect.

Hey, I'm totally with you on the Rikidozan thing. I'm sure he was great before he died 40 years ago. Any other items from that era you'd like to reference?

About the "taking their wrestling serious" bit, Hogan hadn't been to Japan in 10 years and he's not THEIR wrestling, though I'd be more than happy to send him on over there for good. Say, who's the biggest star in Japan right now? Why it's dead serious, non-dancing, completely ungoofy Bob Sapp! I won't bring up the attendance point about the show, since Meltzer is convinced about the weather being a huge factor, but if anybody anywhere is still taking Hogan *seriously* these days, they're goddamned idiots. Also, am I to presume that TNA actually means something in Japan? Or is it all just on hoping to create some credibility with the stateside fans by having Masa Chono in the background of a video clip? Either way, Chono offering to help Hogan is about as perfect of a situation I could imagine. A fitting tag team if ever I saw one.

I kinda ran with the gaijins thing to be silly, but all it earned me was a "sarcasm covers for lack of intellect" comment, so I guess it wasn't worth it. Vader sleeping on your couch would be pretty cool, though.

My points and sarcasm weren't necessarily aimed at doubting your lack of knowledge, but the way you presented it. Anybody who starts a sentence with "Trust me" to emphasize a point is putting their head out there to get smacked around. It's as if you already doubted everyone else's ability to believe what you were saying. So while I came off as an ass to you, it's the exact way you came off to me. Sucks, huh.

(edited by Ubermonkeys on 13.10.03 2104)

Snookum
Kishke








Since: 19.6.03
From: Louisville

Since last post: 2453 days
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#23 Posted on
Question: Does NWA:TNA have a television deal in Japan? Is that the reason to do this stunt there?

I'm assuming that NWA taped it so they can broadcast it on their show soon. Then again, couldn't they have just have done as well as having Hogan in a room doing an interview and then Jeff coming in and beating him up?

To promote a strictly American-only product by flying over to Japan and doing this stunt in order for a hand-full of Internet fans to think it's cool just seems like wasting promotion time and money. I mean, it does seem cool on a fan level, but was it the wisest way to try to jumpstart this feud? Why not do it over here in front of the audience that will care about it?

There? Oh, good, some wrestler comes into our promotion and beats up Hogan for a show sometime in the future on a PPV that we can't see. great.
BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.86
TNA is apparently planning on showing the footage this Wednesday night. As far as shooting the angle in Japan, it makes for a better storyline than just having Hogan show up at the Fairgrounds with no explanation. "Tokyo Dome", "Japan", and "Hogan vs. Chono" all have more of a big-time ring to them than "Hogan shows up and is interviewed by Goldylocks". It just sounds like a bigger story; wrestler gets attacked backstage by other wrestler happens every week and doesn't have the same effect as an attention grabber.

This also leaves open the opportunity to work an angle leading up to the actual announcement of the Hogan vs. Jarrett match. Not unlike the hype of the Starrcade Hogan/Sting match...everyone kinda knew that the match was going to happen, but by making the question of whether it would get signed a storyline into itself it added that much more to the anticipation.

And, if nothing else, the unique lead-in will make the angle stand out from the rest and seem special on that basis alone.
Notorious F.A.B.
Pepperoni








Since: 4.2.02
From: Dudleyville's Gay Ghetto

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.09
Wait and see. That's all there is to it. Mr. America sounded like pure shit but a lot of that angle was pretty fun.

TNA wants TV. Hulk Hogan = wrestling to the people who can hand out TV deals. It's simple as that.



I hope HHH gets you fired.
TheLurkingHorror
Bauerwurst








Since: 14.7.03

Since last post: 3712 days
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    TNA is apparently planning on showing the footage this Wednesday night. As far as shooting the angle in Japan, it makes for a better storyline than just having Hogan show up at the Fairgrounds with no explanation. "Tokyo Dome", "Japan", and "Hogan vs. Chono" all have more of a big-time ring to them than "Hogan shows up and is interviewed by Goldylocks". It just sounds like a bigger story; wrestler gets attacked backstage by other wrestler happens every week and doesn't have the same effect as an attention grabber.


That may well be true, but who's going to buy the pay per view because of it? Who in their right mind would spend $10 just to see an angle? Just because it's in Japan? Only people on the internet know that it happened, it's not going to pick up any casual buys.

The only reason it was done is because TNA are trying to build a business relationship with New Japan, so they wanted something 'important' to happen with the appearance of Hogan.


    TNA wants TV. Hulk Hogan = wrestling to the people who can hand out TV deals. It's simple as that.


If that was true, the XWF would have received a TV deal a few years ago. If that was true, FOX would've bent over backwards for Hogans proprosed fed in '99/2000. Hogan isn't some magic solution to getting a TV deal.
Stinger
Cotechino








Since: 29.1.02

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
I can't wait, the next few months are gonna be pretty damn exciting in TNA. Hulkamania will prove once again to be the strongest force in the world.

Torchslasher
Knackwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 194 days
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Wow, Hogan's finally gonna get a job from Jarrett AND pick up an NWA Title in the process? COLOUR ME INTRIGUED! And Russo's there as well-this will be GOLD.

    COme on guys, at least be consistent with your bitching. Instead of watching WWE there'll be rechurned WCW 2000 as an alternative. Whoopee shit.


Woah, look like someone's falling into the trap of "commenting/bitching about events that haven't happened yet." Don't you usually rail against this sort of thing OSH?

As was stated previously in this thread, those of us who are excited for this are more excited about the exposure that NWA/TNA will get. And to answer TheLurkingHorror's question, yes, I am someone who will order this PPV sightunseen just for the Hogan angle/match. I'm willing to bet that there are many more people like me who will order it as well. And yes, after this show happens, I may come back on here and complain about the show, but I will not bitch right now about what MIGHT happen in a month.

Props to Ubermonkeys for at least explaining his "OSH-like" diatribe from earlier. Just remember that we don't know exactly how much booking power Vince Russo has right now (it seems to change on a nightly basis), and we don't know how much input Russo will have in the big Hogan angle. Again, we must wait and see on this Russo thing. Hell, even afterwards we might not know what Russo did.

The point is, while Davros is perhaps overdoing the hype (does he ever underhype anything), most of us are anxious and even a bit excited to see how "The Hogan Factor" (tm. me) will effect and affect NWA/TNA and its buyrates and possible future in this industry.





Molly, Stacy and Daffney all in WWE? I suddenly lost all my will to complain about anything regarding the WWE. Hope I don't lose my street cred for this.

TS, the greatest Wiener rated 6.1554 ever to live!! Oops, I mean 5.5...4.5?? Oh, dammit! I guess Notorious FAB was right.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.23
    Originally posted by Ubermonkeys
    And we all should be willing to wait and see what happens before we end up making some kind of sarcastic-cool guy comments. They mean absolute shit.

    Sarcastic yes. If I ever seem like I'm trying to be cool, you have every right to call me on it, because I'm really not trying to be. I'm just trying to effectively express myself on how stupid I think of an idea I think bringing Hogan in is. Russo has proven himself over and over again to live for the now, not for the long term. Hogan might get that initial buyrate for the first few weeks, but like Lurking Horror said, he had no drawing power in WWE, where he had millions and millions of marketing dollars backing him all the way. He doesn't have that to fall back on now. Is the groundswell of support really here for him on the net, where the majority of people know about everything he's done and have a general hatred for him? And is he going to walk in and out of that locker room every Wednesday without leaving any of his famous political bullshit behind? I guess we'll see. (The answer is no. How many times to people have to be fooled?)

    The thing that stands out and bugs me the most about this was that for all the absolute shit Vince Russo has brought into the wrestling world, he always had one thing he stood by- he was the only man that told Hulk Hogan to go fuck himself and got his ass out of wrestling. The sad thing is that they're both such three-faced shit-eating assholes that no matter what, if somebody thinks they can make money on the deal, they'll do it.

    The bottom line is that Hogan is worthless without Vince McMahon, and is barely worth anything WITH him. It took Hogan being reinvented in WCW as a heel just to save his career there. And hey, go ask Jimmy Hart how the XWF is doing these days. Remember how awesome that was with Hogan on board? The memories. (You also might want to go check out an old XWF roster page and notice how familiar it looks. Even the security guy Kevin Northcutt was there! Thank god Josh Matthews got out.

    And I was speaking in terms of angle. And that's the difference between being willing to buy into an angle and not. Either go along or don't, and if you don't, dont comment on it.

    So I guess roughly 80 percent of the board's posts are contemptable by your judgment? The SmackDown thread from this past week is going to be a hell of a lot shorter now. And let's get rid of Meltzer, Keller, Scherer, Ryder, and hell, anybody that's talked about wrestling ever.

    BTW, if you've ever heard people talk about the phenomenon that was Rikidozan, when they got to watch him first hand (like my mom did), and what it meant to people in Japan at the time, you don't need to be a Mr. Tenay, Mr. Monkey. And one MORE thing, gaijin is a Japanese word used to refer to foreigners, not just workers. That is all-- and please, sarcasm doesn't work. It just covers for the lack of intellect.

    Hey, I'm totally with you on the Rikidozan thing. I'm sure he was great before he died 40 years ago. Any other items from that era you'd like to reference?

    About the "taking their wrestling serious" bit, Hogan hadn't been to Japan in 10 years and he's not THEIR wrestling, though I'd be more than happy to send him on over there for good. Say, who's the biggest star in Japan right now? Why it's dead serious, non-dancing, completely ungoofy Bob Sapp! I won't bring up the attendance point about the show, since Meltzer is convinced about the weather being a huge factor, but if anybody anywhere is still taking Hogan *seriously* these days, they're goddamned idiots. Also, am I to presume that TNA actually means something in Japan? Or is it all just on hoping to create some credibility with the stateside fans by having Masa Chono in the background of a video clip? Either way, Chono offering to help Hogan is about as perfect of a situation I could imagine. A fitting tag team if ever I saw one.

    I kinda ran with the gaijins thing to be silly, but all it earned me was a "sarcasm covers for lack of intellect" comment, so I guess it wasn't worth it. Vader sleeping on your couch would be pretty cool, though.

    My points and sarcasm weren't necessarily aimed at doubting your lack of knowledge, but the way you presented it. Anybody who starts a sentence with "Trust me" to emphasize a point is putting their head out there to get smacked around. It's as if you already doubted everyone else's ability to believe what you were saying. So while I came off as an ass to you, it's the exact way you came off to me. Sucks, huh.

    (edited by Ubermonkeys on 13.10.03 2104)


I find this fanboy finger-pointing to be inane at best. Why all this hatred of Hogan? You sound so damn angry and bitter. I don't get it. TNA snapped up the biggest available name in the business, and you're saying they shouldn't? What sense does that make?

Hogan may not be worth anything with McMahon but neither is Austin, or Angle, or anyone else we all like to whack off about these days. No one is popping ratings. The Iron Man match got a worse rating than just about anything Hogan did in that last run. If TNA snapped up Kurt Angle, would they be any better off? There'd be better matches, but good matches don't sell PPVs. They never have, and Smackdown's been proving this fact for the last year and a half. Kurt's never drawn a big number in his entire career, and all the smarts on the net can roar "we don't care! we like good matches!" all they like but you can't expect a non-retarded business man to come to the same conclusion.

That's the thing about the anti-Hogans, they love to point out when Hogan's not a draw or "fails" at something, but they never point it out in context. Hogan didn't pop numbers on an entire show that didn't pop numbers. His return got about a months worth of ratings, like Austin's, and then petered out. They laugh, well...XWF! Hah! As if Chris Benoit could have made a promotion without TV, that produced all of 1 showm, work.

Hogan, for years, did what he had to do to protect his spot. He did what anyone would do, that's what it takes to be on top. Wrestling is the only profession in the world where people expect you to sacrifice your living, sacrifice your position because it's the "right thing to do" in some esoteric, vapourous way that doesn't actually mean anything when we're talking facts. No one expects the high-ranking exec to pass the torch to some young kid coming up. It's not Hogan's job.

And for all its worth, I don't think anyone can really, honestly blame anyone but Vince McMahon or Bischoff for talent refusals to "do business". A wrestler can bitch, but ultimately, if Vince says do business, lay down, then the guy does it. The only real example I can think of is Bret Hart, and we all know what happened to him. If Eric demanded Hulk job, he would have, and if Hulk had creative control, that's Eric fault too. Hogan got the best deal he could, and made the most money, which any person would do.

I'll wrap, but not before saying Hogan's made some true statements in his career amidst all the not-so-true ones. He has said that everybody got the ball. They all got their chance to run with it. Warrior got a chance, Macho got a chance, Piper got a chance, Steamboat even got a chance in the NWA. Lots of people were given the ball and only Hogan has drawn significant numbers for 20 years in main events.
Austin, Rocky, these guys drew insane money for about 4 years between the two of them, but no one in wrestling history has the record Hogan has for drawing money. That's why he's been signed. And I have to give the benefit of the doubt, because guys like Jeff and Jerry Jarrett have been around the business a long time, and if they think Hogan can do something for them in a significant way, they have to have their reasons.











(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 14.10.03 0849)


What do you call Albert Einstein beatin' off?
Give up?
A stroke of genius!
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1244 days
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
Hogan also works a powderpuff style that's allowed him to hobble around the ring for 20 years. And while others may have gotten the ball, put it in context. Hogans's gotten more chances and has been booked to run roughshod over the competion for years and years. It wasn't just that he got one run with the belt, he got numerous, sustained runs with the belt. Of course he's gonna get over.

And he's gonna protect his spot, but does that mean we have to eat up all of his shitty matches? Like Uber said, the man is still winning with a leg drop.

He'll bring some recognition to TNA, for sure. And that's why I think it's a good move. But Hogan has always been a double-edged sword, because more than likely, he'll make guys like AJ Styles look bad when they have to sell for his blundering offense.

Do I blame the guy? No. But don't expect me to applaud Hogan for looking out for his own best interests. HMD, your argument seems to be that he's self-centered and he makes a lot of money. And because of that fact, Hogan is somehow beyond reproach. I don't buy that.

The reason why people hate him is because he's a mascot. He's over, but he can't perform. He wobbles around and leads cheers. So put him in a cage with the TNA girls, but leave the matches to others.





-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3077 days
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
There is one major reason why NWATNA exists and they're doing this feud. It's so Jeff Jarrett can try once again to make himself important in the industry.

Hogan in TNA just comes across as a little desperate on his part. I mean, what's the point? Is he broke? Is he worried Vince won't take him back this time?
BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.29
Hogan's viewpoint has to be that he still has value that Vince McMahon doesn't appreciate. I think he figures that if he comes in and TNA's numbers start to go up, Vince will bring him back just to stick to the competition. Why else would he sign for a one shot deal if his interest were in staying with TNA? The gamble, though, is that if his appearance doesn't do TNA any good, he's basically proven that his value has passed, in which case maybe McMahon finally realizes that going back to Hogan isn't necessarily a good idea.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1802 days
Last activity: 1736 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.47
"Woah, look like someone's falling into the trap of "commenting/bitching about events that haven't happened yet." Don't you usually rail against this sort of thing OSH?"

It's called playing devil's advocate. In damn near every other thread about everything WWE-related, we bear witness to everyone and their mother jumping the gun in order to ppile scorn on an idea that hasn't been fully executed yet-or, worse still, has only just been announced. And I rail against it. And yet here, on this thread, we see folk who spend a great chunk of time slamming the fed for things they haven't even done yet opining to "wait and see" with regards to Mr. Hogan's Wild Ride Part XXXVIII. And don't even THINK about bbusting out the ol' "WWE have given us no reason to expect good things" because Hogan's track record of involvement with any company not headed by Vince McMahon speaks for itself. So please, which of us broke their usual pattern of behaviour first? You tell me.

I'm sorry, but it stinks of hypocrisy. Except from Hogan's My Dad, who's pretty open about his love of Hogan and whom I have no problem with. Although...

"That's the thing about the anti-Hogans, they love to point out when Hogan's not a draw or "fails" at something, but they never point it out in context. Hogan didn't pop numbers on an entire show that didn't pop numbers. His return got about a months worth of ratings, like Austin's, and then petered out. They laugh, well...XWF! Hah! As if Chris Benoit could have made a promotion without TV, that produced all of 1 showm, work."

Whether he draws or not is pretty much a moot point. The entire problem with bringing Hogan into a fledgling promotion is that such a small organisation must immediately become centred around him in order to a)Justify their huge investment and b)Appease his prima donna attitude. Jesus, he had the cajones to tell Vince he deserved the title based on the reactions of one match, and then ended up walking when McMahon didn't cave. You really think anyone's going to get in his face in Jarrettsville?






And Lo, The Urine Shall Flow Freely In The Aisles, As Small Children And Frail Old Ladies Flee Before The Brutality, The Might, The Sheer Viciousness...Of ~EVIL COACH~!

TheLurkingHorror
Bauerwurst








Since: 14.7.03

Since last post: 3712 days
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00

    That's the thing about the anti-Hogans, they love to point out when Hogan's not a draw or "fails" at something, but they never point it out in context. Hogan didn't pop numbers on an entire show that didn't pop numbers. His return got about a months worth of ratings, like Austin's, and then petered out. They laugh, well...XWF! Hah! As if Chris Benoit could have made a promotion without TV, that produced all of 1 showm, work.


I assume this was partially to me, since it mentions things I brought up. First of all, I'm certainly not 'anti-Hogan', nor did I bring anything out of context.

I'm afraid to say, but his return didn't bring a months worth of ratings. His return did a negligible 0.1 ratings increase for a show that was averaging a 3.4 the previous month. The ratings then actually dropped for the next show, and continued to drop. So there was no 'Austin-like' month long ratings increase, and the Raw ratings increase is debatable in itself.

Also, the XWF produced more than one show. They had actually taped at least a months worth of matches, which they sent to networks. Who was the main guy featured? Well, it wasn't Greg Valentine, put it that way.
Notorious F.A.B.
Pepperoni








Since: 4.2.02
From: Dudleyville's Gay Ghetto

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.10
    Originally posted by TheLurkingHorror
    That may well be true, but who's going to buy the pay per view because of it? Only people on the internet know that it happened, it's not going to pick up any casual buys


TNA has a free pre-show now. I imagine they'll hype the shit out of Hogan there and hope for the buys.

(edited by Notorious F.A.B. on 14.10.03 1626)


I hope HHH gets you fired.
Davros
Blutwurst








Since: 22.8.02
From: Between thought and Reality, TZ

Since last post: 2473 days
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.44
The positive to all of this is... people are talking. So Uber, apologies for coming off as an ass, even though I am wary of all sarcastic wieners

Secondly, I sincerely hope Russo has nothing to do with this angle, and I hope it's not for the NWA title. I'll probably be wrong by this.

At any rate, the one thing I need to say is, if this can be pulled off correctly, the end result can be competition. this is the key. If TNA can persevere and really highlight the workers that have made a name for TNA, then hopefully fans will stick around. If JJ/HH is last onn the card, then that means there's two hours and forty minutes to show newer viewers and continuing viewers alike that the undercard all the way up to the main event is what TNA is all about. Especially if Hogan jobs to Jarrett. As far fetched as that sounds, it is the best possible solution, and maybe, maybe Hulk wants to play. Well, that's it for me.

So whatcha gonna do brother...



Fallin back on dat ass with a hellified gangsta lean, gettin funky on the mike like an old batch of collard greens, its the CapitalSohyesNpressiondoubleOP, DOdoubleGY DOdoubleG you see.

Ain't Nuthin But A G Thang
Snoop, 1992
Ubermonkeys
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02
From: Michigan

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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43


I'm an anti-Hogan.

Hogan's My Dad.... FIRST OFF, you didn't have to quote my whole post! I'm sure everybody was tired of it already halfway through the first time. (Or my first post in the thread!) Second off, you're making it hard for me to be mean to Davros with your distracting ways.

Anyway...

Why all this hatred of Hogan? You sound so damn angry and bitter. I don't get it.

Wait, are we talking about the same Hogan? (If it's Horace, I take back EVERYTHING.) Is there any way for me to respond to this without making some giant list of Hulkster-related atrocities over the years? If not, I won't bother, because neither of us wants to sit and read all that.

TNA snapped up the biggest available name in the business, and you're saying they shouldn't? What sense does that make?

That's pretty well tied in to all the points I made earlier about how Hogan goes places and either A) takes over the joint, B) makes a huge egomaniacal ass of himself, or C) both. If TNA's plan is just to become WCW, then they may very well be on the right track. They said "fuck it, we're bringing in Hogan, we don't care what anybody thinks, and we're gonna ride him until he dies." He did. And then they died, too. The name only means something if the guy behind it MEANS SOMETHING.

That's the thing about the anti-Hogans, they love to point out when Hogan's not a draw or "fails" at something, but they never point it out in context. Hogan didn't pop numbers on an entire show that didn't pop numbers. His return got about a months worth of ratings, like Austin's, and then petered out.

Hey, thanks for making my point! Surely that month's worth of buyrate spikes for Hogan's first four weeks will be worth bringing him in! It doesn't last. Hogan draws for a month because he's got (had) nostalgia in his corner, but it's not the 80s anymore. You can say that things have evolved, devolved, whatever. Either way, it's changed, and Hogan is still far behind, living in the past. Like somebody once said, nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

Then again, Lurking Horror just shot all of this down, so you can go either route in trying to defend your Hogan/ratings statement that didn't really show him to be that strong to begin with.


Hogan may not be worth anything with McMahon but neither is Austin, or Angle, or anyone else we all like to whack off about these days. No one is popping ratings. The Iron Man match got a worse rating than just about anything Hogan did in that last run. If TNA snapped up Kurt Angle, would they be any better off? There'd be better matches, but good matches don't sell PPVs. They never have, and Smackdown's been proving this fact for the last year and a half. Kurt's never drawn a big number in his entire career, and all the smarts on the net can roar "we don't care! we like good matches!" all they like but you can't expect a non-retarded business man to come to the same conclusion.

And that's what works for me. If something I like doesn't get great ratings or money, who cares, because I'm enjoying it. Even so, I can still see how people can reason things. I didn't particularly care for the Brock/Angle ironman match (probably my attention span more than anything) but a lot of people did, so fuck anybody with a ratings box who didn't think it was worth watching, because a lot of fans really liked it! You didn't even make that argument for Hogan. If you do enjoy watching him perform, I'd probably discredit you based on my own personal bias and treat your statements as if they were made by some casual fan who hasn't watched wrestling in years and is just excited about seeing the Hulkster again for the first time since they were a little kid. But you're not, and you didn't. Yet I'm still baffled. (And what a mess of a paragraph that was. Hopefully the point is understandable and able to be located. I'm starting to lose it myself.)

I think the larger point there is that we (by that, I mean a large portion of fans) often blur the lines between what we mean to be "good" and what's good for business. Remember how fucking horrible a lot of the television was in 99? Thing was, it was just ignored, because there was a ratings war to be won, goddamnit! It was bad tv, but it was huge with the casual fans, who became hardcore fans at the time, and started pouring money into Vince's Bad Decisions Fund. Meltzer talked recently about how the McMahons still hold most of the top "ratings by performer" numbers. So while they're largely some of the most annoying people in WWE, they can at least justify their spots. I don't like it, but it makes sense to a "non-retarded business man", or even Vince.

And that's where "good tv" and "good ratings" merge into a semi-truck shaped projectile aimed right at Hogan's forehead. He doesn't deliver good tv, and past a month, at most, doesn't deliver good ratings. BUT HE'S GOT THAT AWESOME NOSTALIGA POP, BY GOD.

Hogan, for years, did what he had to do to protect his spot......etc.

I don't think anyone's gonna argue about what kind of business man Hogan is. (Evil and Fantastic.) Hell, for all my Hogan bashing in the two previous posts, it's directed a lot more at the Jarretts, etc for giving Hogan yet another chance. Hogan is damn smart, and probably the best at selling himself more than anyone in the history of the business, because as bad as he sucks, for as worn down as he is, he can still get SOMEBODY to give him a shot SOMEWHERE and have us all sitting here talking about it!

Davros... It did get people talking. It got me to feel passionate enough about it to post. Whatever works.

(edited by Ubermonkeys on 14.10.03 2145)

Scorpio
Boudin rouge








Since: 18.2.02
From: Laurel, MD, USA

Since last post: 3679 days
Last activity: 3630 days
#38 Posted on
Uh, the only people who are gonna hear about it are TNA viewers. How is this gonna pop their ratings at all?



PMMJ

"Nothing remains interesting where anything may happen." -H.G. Wells
"Show me the country in which there are no strikes and I'll show you that country in which there is no liberty." -Emma Goldman

Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 1 day
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.69

So it looks like the Jarretts are betting the farm on this one ... I read at one of the sites (sorry, can't remember which one) that Hogan is being paid a handsome six figure salary for his services ...

I hope for their sake it pans out ... maybe an appearance by Sting at the 11/30 PPV would add a little insurance.




"This is U.S. History, I see the globe right there." -- Jeff Spicoli, Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
darkdragoon
Bockwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 3511 days
Last activity: 3511 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
Worst attended dome show in NJ, even Inoki hated it and he's the one that changed the lineup in the first place.

Second, NJ is treading dangerous ground, as apparently Hogan is their link to TNA. The NJ/WCW relationship wasn't all hugs and kisses either.

Also consider ZERO-ONE has at times looked like NWA-Japan, but supposedly NJ gives them money ala Vince with ECW. Not to mention D'lo working with AJ in their "FAKE WWE ARMY".

Frankly, the only 'ooh, ah' I'm getting from this is apparently Tiger Mask IV will show up for the 11/30 show. So I'm hoping he faces Lynn or Daniels, maybe AJ (since it appears he will be cast to Midcarddom by JJ) and shows everyone else how it's done.
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