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The W - Hockey - The Hamilton Senators?
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scabby
Bauerwurst








Since: 23.2.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 2341 days
Last activity: 2341 days
#1 Posted on
According to several Toronto media outlets, a Toronto based group is preparing to make an offer on the Sens in hopes of moving them to Hamilton, Ontario.

I think if the team *has* to leave Ottawa, it would definitely make it easier for Canadians to know it was staying in Canada and not moving south.

I think the team would be well supported in Hamilton.....there are countless hockey fans in Southern Ontario who either can't afford or can't get their hands on Leaf tickets. At least it would be moving into a semi-established market instead of going to another American city and attempting to sell the sport to a bunch of NASCAR fans.





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tarnish
Frankfurter








Since: 13.2.02
From: Back in the Heart of Hali

Since last post: 440 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.03

I know I posted this joke in another thread, but it's one of my favorite lines ever:

Hamilton will never get an NHL team; if they got one, Toronto would want one too!


When the Copps colosseum was built in Hamilton, it was designed to be capable of supporting the kind of crowd an NHL team needs to survive. I hope that Hamilton finally gets their chance; they've been waiting for more than 20 years.




/tarnish...

Did you walk to school or bring a lunch?
haz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 4 days
#3 Posted on
The only problem is that both Toronto and Buffalo have the right of refusal because Hamilton is within their territorial rights.

They have in the past not been very supportive of such a move, specifically the Leafs...



----------
And the real wonder of the world is that we don't jump too
----------
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 244 days
Last activity: 4 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96

    Originally posted by haz
    The only problem is that both Toronto and Buffalo have the right of refusal because Hamilton is within their territorial rights.

    They have in the past not been very supportive of such a move, specifically the Leafs...



The f*ck? Under the same credo, the New York Rangers had right of refusal when the Islanders and then the Devils came to the New York area. Or the Oilers had right of refusal when the Flames moved to Calgary. Or the Kings had refusal rights when the Ducks and Sharks moved.

Crazy. I doubt it's true...because then we'd still have six teams in the NHL.



Remember: No-selling makes Baby Jesus cry.

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Bullitt
Shot in the dark








Since: 11.1.02
From: Houston

Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 16 days
#5 Posted on
Oh GOD no. This can't happen, under ANY circumstances.

Ugh. There's no way I'll start cheering for the Hamilton Senators (or Steelmen, or whatever stupid name I'm sure they'd come up with.) Ever been to Hamilton?



What am I gonna do with my Ottawa jersey? It'll be useless...USELESS! Guess I could hang it beside my old Ron Francis Whalers sweater...

(edited by Bullitt on 24.1.03 1525)


"No team that has lost in the first round of the playoffs has ever gone on to win the Super Bowl."
- Dave Letterman, January 6, 2003.

www.Gordie.ca
tarnish
Frankfurter








Since: 13.2.02
From: Back in the Heart of Hali

Since last post: 440 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.03

    The f*ck? Under the same credo, the New York Rangers had right of refusal when the Islanders and then the Devils came to the New York area. Or the Oilers had right of refusal when the Flames moved to Calgary. Or the Kings had refusal rights when the Ducks and Sharks moved.

    Crazy. I doubt it's true...because then we'd still have six teams in the NHL.


Actually, that's the real reason Hamilton will never get a team.

The Rangers, Devils, and Islanders play in a market of over 30 million people. The Leafs, Sabres, and "Steelmen" would be potentially sharing a market of about 5 million.

If Toronto is still blacking out hockey games and Buffalo is in dire financial straits, it doesn't make much sense to put another team in the same geographical area that could potentially rob the two existing teams of revenue. If Toronto and Buffalo were turning people away at the door (as happened in New York when it was just the Rangers), then one might be able to justify putting another team so close.

This is how the argument goes, and has gone since Hamilton built the Copps Colosseum with the hopes of landing an NHL (or WHA, at the time) team. By all accounts it is a wonderful arena to play in and also to watch hockey in. But , sadly, it's not likely to ever see an NHL team call it home.

edit: hey! don't knock Hamilton; I was born there! (well, yeah, my parents got out as soon as they could, but still )

(edited by tarnish on 24.1.03 2024)


/tarnish...

Did you walk to school or bring a lunch?
Mr. Heat Miser
Blutwurst








Since: 27.1.02

Since last post: 2484 days
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#7 Posted on
Yeah, the right of refusal thing is why the owner of the Devils (who were at the time the Rockies, maybe) had to make large cash payments ("indemnification fees") to the Islanders and the Rangers before moving to New Jersey.

The applicable section of the NHL bylaws is in the document at this address:

http://www.heartland.org/pdf/congress2.PDF

scroll all the way to the end, section 36.6



Everything I touch, starts to melt in my clutch........
I'm too much!
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3528 days
Last activity: 1948 days
#8 Posted on
Leafs aren't blacking out games. Buffalo is so messed up they very well be playing in Hamilton or anywhere else but Buffalo once next season comes around.

I actually don't see the Ottawa Senators going anywhere especially Hamilton. What Ottawa Senators needs is an arena in OTTAWA, not middle of nowhere Kanata.



Oh they have the internet on computers now!
mountinman44
Sujuk








Since: 8.5.02
From: San Diego, CA

Since last post: 1190 days
Last activity: 1036 days
Y!:
#9 Posted on
    Originally posted by Freeway420
    Or the Kings had refusal rights when the Ducks and Sharks moved.


If I remember right, Bruce McNall, the former owner of the Kings, campaigned for the Ducks expansion franchise and was paid a good sum of money to allow the Ducks to be placed in his "market".



(edited by mountinman44 on 25.1.03 1020)


"Funaki feel very dirty." -- Sho Funaki, #1 Smackdown Announcer, 1/2/03

With A Name Like Mountinman, It Has To Be Good.
Socks
Landjager








Since: 25.6.02
From: Ottawa

Since last post: 761 days
Last activity: 373 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.21
I am sorry but the league would never allow such a thing to happen.

Considering how strapped for cash the Sabres are, they will not allow another team to move so close to steal some of it's revenues. Furthermore the Leafs would never allow it for it dips into there TV deals, and merchandise/tickets etc!

The Senators will not be going anywhere anytime soon. They are above average in attendance throughtout the league, state of the art building and a good solid fan base.

Hamilton has an arena that requires almost 100 million dollars (CDN) for upgrades to make it a NHL arena.

And last but not least, they aren't even getting the crowds for the Bulldogs of the AHL.

Darryl...




How much wood can a wood chuck chuck, if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
scabby
Bauerwurst








Since: 23.2.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 2341 days
Last activity: 2341 days
#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by Socks
    I am sorry but the league would never allow such a thing to happen.

    Considering how strapped for cash the Sabres are, they will not allow another team to move so close to steal some of it's revenues. Furthermore the Leafs would never allow it for it dips into there TV deals, and merchandise/tickets etc!

    The Senators will not be going anywhere anytime soon. They are above average in attendance throughtout the league, state of the art building and a good solid fan base.

    Hamilton has an arena that requires almost 100 million dollars (CDN) for upgrades to make it a NHL arena.

    And last but not least, they aren't even getting the crowds for the Bulldogs of the AHL.

    Darryl...



Well, if we're using hockey leagues other than the NHL to gauge fan support, then the Leafs should have an empty building 99% of the time considering that the St. Mikes Majors are about as popular as traffic on the 401.





El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 10 hours
ICQ:  
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.33

The Corel Centre is AWEFUL to get to. From Baseline Station to the Corel Centre is quick if you catch a "400 series" OC Transpo bus, but any other way takes forever. Have fun taking a bus out there that's not a 400 one (which only run for 7pm games, and leave just once).

If the sens would move, then my dilema between who to cheer for would be solved (born and raised a Habs fan, but my family is from Ottawa....plus I live in Ottawa, too). But in a perverse way....I LIKE this dilema, and would rather not have the team move.

(edited by El Nastio on 26.1.03 1126)



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Socks
Landjager








Since: 25.6.02
From: Ottawa

Since last post: 761 days
Last activity: 373 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.21

    Originally posted by scabby

      Originally posted by Socks
      I am sorry but the league would never allow such a thing to happen.

      Considering how strapped for cash the Sabres are, they will not allow another team to move so close to steal some of it's revenues. Furthermore the Leafs would never allow it for it dips into there TV deals, and merchandise/tickets etc!

      The Senators will not be going anywhere anytime soon. They are above average in attendance throughtout the league, state of the art building and a good solid fan base.

      Hamilton has an arena that requires almost 100 million dollars (CDN) for upgrades to make it a NHL arena.

      And last but not least, they aren't even getting the crowds for the Bulldogs of the AHL.

      Darryl...



    Well, if we're using hockey leagues other than the NHL to gauge fan support, then the Leafs should have an empty building 99% of the time considering that the St. Mikes Majors are about as popular as traffic on the 401.




See that is a little different. Toronto already has a franchise to support. Hamilton claims to be "hockey crazy" so they go out of there way to grab a AHL franchise, and a great one at that. And they don't even fill the building. Yeah...that's a hockey town alright.

Here in Ottawa we fill the Civic Centre for the 67's (the best team in Junior Hockey) and we are filling the Corel centre for the Sens. The fanbase is hear, more so then Hamilton.



How much wood can a wood chuck chuck, if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
Dick the Bruiser
Pinkelwurst








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 4051 days
Last activity: 4051 days
#14 Posted on

    Originally posted by El Nastio

    The Corel Centre is AWEFUL to get to. From Baseline Station to the Corel Centre is quick if you catch a "400 series" OC Transpo bus, but any other way takes forever. Have fun taking a bus out there that's not a 400 one (which only run for 7pm games, and leave just once).

    If the sens would move, then my dilema between who to cheer for would be solved (born and raised a Habs fan, but my family is from Ottawa....plus I live in Ottawa, too). But in a perverse way....I LIKE this dilema, and would rather not have the team move.

    (edited by El Nastio on 26.1.03 1126)



Correct. The previous owners of the franchise wanted to inflate the price of real estate surrounding the Corel Centre. Unfortunately with the High-Tech industry meltdown in Ottawa, this did not happen. Thus, the Sens fan base on the West side of Ottawa did not grow as hoped.

The infrastructure (roads, public transit) to the Corel Centre from Ottawa East, Downtown and Gatineau is absolutely terrible.

Let's hope that any new buyer will plan to scrap the Corel Centre in favour of a downtown arena. It has worked in Columbus and in Minnesota.





The haves haven't got a clue - Eddie Vedder (2002)
Bullitt
Shot in the dark








Since: 11.1.02
From: Houston

Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 16 days
#15 Posted on
I saw two options better than Kanata for the Corel Center when I lived in Ottawa...

Lebreton Flats, and the experimental farm in Nepean. Never would have happened, but both are/were FAR superior to where that building sits now. Just sitting in gameday traffic to get out there is miserable.






"No team that has lost in the first round of the playoffs has ever gone on to win the Super Bowl."
- Dave Letterman, January 6, 2003.

www.Gordie.ca
haz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 4 days
#16 Posted on

    Originally posted by Freeway420

      Originally posted by haz
      The only problem is that both Toronto and Buffalo have the right of refusal because Hamilton is within their territorial rights.

      They have in the past not been very supportive of such a move, specifically the Leafs...



    The f*ck? Under the same credo, the New York Rangers had right of refusal when the Islanders and then the Devils came to the New York area. Or the Oilers had right of refusal when the Flames moved to Calgary. Or the Kings had refusal rights when the Ducks and Sharks moved.

    Crazy. I doubt it's true...because then we'd still have six teams in the NHL.



As mentioned this is true, it's true, it's true.

The Rangers were paid by the Islanders, and both of them were paid by the Devils when they moved.

Not sure about the LA or Edmonton cases, but there will never be a team in Hamilton, 'cause the Leafs would never allow it. If they would have, it would've happened before now...



----------
And the real wonder of the world is that we don't jump too
----------
Dick the Bruiser
Pinkelwurst








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 4051 days
Last activity: 4051 days
#17 Posted on
Ottawa media is reporting that another Canadian businessman is interested in purchasing the Senators and keeping them in Ottawa.

This new bid supposedly matches or is higher than Rod Bryden's original bid for the hockey club ($100 to $140 million).



The haves haven't got a clue - Eddie Vedder (2002)
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1208 days
Last activity: 1005 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
The fact of the matter is that if the Sens do move, it probably won't be to another Canadian city(unless Saskatoon gets another shot). They'll probably head south to a sunbelt city with a relatively new arena in place or under construction(i.e. Oklahoma City, New Orleans, Houston, Memphis, San Antonio).

Frankly, I never understood why there is not an NHL team nor has there ever been an NHL team in Portland or Seattle.



Americans are a resolute people who have risen to every test of our time. Adversity has revealed the character of our country, to the world and to ourselves. America is a strong nation, and honorable in the use of our strength. We exercise power without conquest, and we sacrifice for the liberty of strangers. Americans are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity.
- President George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, 1/28/2003
scabby
Bauerwurst








Since: 23.2.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 2341 days
Last activity: 2341 days
#19 Posted on
    Originally posted by Socks

      Originally posted by scabby

        Originally posted by Socks
        I am sorry but the league would never allow such a thing to happen.

        Considering how strapped for cash the Sabres are, they will not allow another team to move so close to steal some of it's revenues. Furthermore the Leafs would never allow it for it dips into there TV deals, and merchandise/tickets etc!

        The Senators will not be going anywhere anytime soon. They are above average in attendance throughtout the league, state of the art building and a good solid fan base.

        Hamilton has an arena that requires almost 100 million dollars (CDN) for upgrades to make it a NHL arena.

        And last but not least, they aren't even getting the crowds for the Bulldogs of the AHL.

        Darryl...



      Well, if we're using hockey leagues other than the NHL to gauge fan support, then the Leafs should have an empty building 99% of the time considering that the St. Mikes Majors are about as popular as traffic on the 401.




    See that is a little different. Toronto already has a franchise to support. Hamilton claims to be "hockey crazy" so they go out of there way to grab a AHL franchise, and a great one at that. And they don't even fill the building. Yeah...that's a hockey town alright.

    Here in Ottawa we fill the Civic Centre for the 67's (the best team in Junior Hockey) and we are filling the Corel centre for the Sens. The fanbase is hear, more so then Hamilton.



You can't compare the AHL to the NHL and you can't base possible NHL fan support on AHL attendance. The two are completely different. It's a lot easier for some kid to get excited about seeing Joe Sakic or Mario Lemieux play live than it is to go and watch the guys who aren't good enough to play for the Canadiens.

By the way, there is an AHL franchise coming to Toronto that will act as the Oilers farm team. Lets see how many games that sells out, cause i guarantee you nobody will give two shits about it.

    Originally posted by Grimis
    The fact of the matter is that if the Sens do move, it probably won't be to another Canadian city(unless Saskatoon gets another shot). They'll probably head south to a sunbelt city with a relatively new arena in place or under construction(i.e. Oklahoma City, New Orleans, Houston, Memphis, San Antonio).


That's just what the NHL needs....more half empty buildings in the southern United States.

(edited by scabby on 31.1.03 1239)

(edited by scabby on 31.1.03 1246)

(edited by scabby on 31.1.03 1246)



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