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The W - Pro Wrestling - The Flag (Page 3)
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WTF13
Boerewors








Since: 22.1.02

Since last post: 4278 days
Last activity: 4277 days
#41 Posted on
Hmmm...in some ways I guess this is equally bad as Sgt. Slaughter the Iraqi, though in a lot of other ways it's worse, just because of the huge loss of life involved. Both are really tasteless because they involve a current conflict where lives are being lost, or a horrible tragic incident. I think it would be like having a show in Oklahoma City and getting cheap heat by talking about the bombing there, or making AIDS jokes in San Francisco.

I don't mind "political" angles when it's something superficial like an upside-down flag, or a heel yelling "Russia #1", but when awful incidents like 9/11 or a war where people are putting their lives at risk, I think it goes way beyond the bounds of good taste. Even if it weren't intended to really be about 9/11 and more about Bush, I think it's way too open to interpretation to be a good idea. I'm not against "anti-American" angles per se, even now, they just need to keep it light.

DeBeers was probably nearly as bad as this--so were The Gangstas when they made their debut, I believe they even made comments applauding OJ Simpson for killing white people or something to that effect [though probably not exactly that or they would have been sued!]

As far as attacking Storm for saying it if it is against his beliefs, I think that he has to say whatever they tell him to say, if he wants to keep his job. If you're on national TV, not saying what you're supposed to is probably about the same as shooting in the ring, especially if you're not at the top of the card.

I'm not interested in debating the truth of what was said...the comments were totally inappropriate for a wrestling program, regardless.




HUSS! HUSS! HUSS!
IPowerbombedKidman
Chorizo








Since: 5.7.02
From: Ft. Worth Texas

Since last post: 4018 days
Last activity: 4018 days
#42 Posted on
I personally think that the Anti-Americans should not be anti-american, but anti-AMERICANA. Against our pop culture and what not, i believe they should make Christian the mouth piece as he has most experience with that fotrm of heel interview. Such statements like "American children idolize slutty singers and spoiled athletes, not teachers and fire fights" should be used so they can show, that they do agree with some America, then when the the two weeks of september rolls around (8th-22nd) make them have a low profile matches on heat. And starting on the next show Fly a different flag. even the side trons had upside down flag.



Scott Hudson: Drew Spears picks up Kidman, doesn't he know that NOBODY POWERBOMBS KIDMAN!!
Mark Madden: But wait Scott, Kidman is trying to fight himself off of Drew's shoulders, but it did not affect him! DREW SPEARS POWERBOMBED KIDMAN!
Scott Hudson: What an amazing night this has been for World Championship Wrestling! Good Night!
Mark Madden: See you Thursday!

Holden: So what do you want to do tonight
Banky: Order pizza, watch Degrassi Jr. High
Holden: Wow, you have a thing for Canadian Melodrama
Banky: No, I have a thing for little girls who say aboot
~Chasing Amy
Ana Ng
Blutwurst








Since: 6.8.02
From: Naples, FL, USA

Since last post: 3654 days
Last activity: 3228 days
#43 Posted on
Eh, it's wrestling. They same something offensive, a few people get upset, and we wait for the next offensive thing. Personally, I don't think anything could offend me on wrestling, anymore.

Unless you count the fact that Bradshaw and Albert now wear the "tiny tights".



As soon as you're born you start dying, so you might as well have a good time.
deadbeater
Morcilla








Since: 12.2.02
From: Parts unknown

Since last post: 4188 days
Last activity: 4188 days
#44 Posted on
Ny problem is that the Un-Americans are being held back. That's right. Storm should have made comments on how American "Greed is good" corporate policy has put the world economy in the toilet while the corrupt CEO's cash out for ill-gotten gains. How the USA energy policy was practically written by Kenny Lay former head of Enron and Bush's best friend. How US record companies fight piracy by flooding the Internet with crap--wait a minute, they already do that with their CDs.



"Business has just picked up" says JR. Then right on cue, Molly enters the arena! Never was JR any better in introducing someone. --Raw 7/15
The Thrill
Banger








Since: 16.4.02
From: Green Bay, WI

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#45 Posted on
September 11, 2001: 3,000 dead in New York, Washington and rural Pennsylvania.

Summer 2002: Exploitative angle born in Stamford, CT: dead people=heel heat.


F*CK YOU, VINCE.



Star wipe, and...we're out.
Thrillin' ain't easy.

.
.
THE THRILL
ACW-TV/Home Video Technical Director Emeritus...and A2NWO 4 Life!
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 4 hours
ICQ:  
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.33
The Thrill, the angle was not created because of 9/11, it was created to get three Canadians more over as heels. And so far, it's working, because look at your reaction.

Speaking of your reaction, I want to know what your reaction was when Shawn Micheals WIPED HIS CROTCH with MY country's flag, and did a great many other forms of disrespect to it. What did YOU do during that time Thrill? Did you cheer? Did you jeer? Did you even care? Did you know that by doing that Shawn Micheals spat on each and every Canadian out there, defiling our traditions, culture, and all of us who call Canada our home? That by doing that he spat on the graves of those who died in service for our country? What about the other stuff he did? All Bret Hart did was say Canada was better, and he said why. Meanwhile, Shawn disgraced our flag amoung other things. What was your reaction then?


All the things "Un-Americians" have said I've heard AMERICIANS say. And all they've said for the most part has been fairly on the money, if not said with too much contempt. If anything, maybe you should get on Vince's case for giving foreign workers stereotype gimmicks and the aformentioned Shawn/Canada thing amoung others.


(edited by El Nastio on 8.8.02 0300)


"D-Von actually gets his head stuck up Rikishi's _ss and I am filled with love. love for wrestling. love for you. a love so true. like a perfect love. like a man and a woman. like a true wrestling fan and his or her love for CHRIS MOTHER____ING BENOIT."

- DEAN RASMUSSEN, Workrate Report 8/1/2002
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 13 days
#47 Posted on
Hey El Nastio, don't forget Shawn did this in close proximity to November 11th, which is Canada's Remembrance Day (like Veteran's Day in the U.S.)

He can be born again all he likes, but there was no excuse for this prick picking his nose with and humping any country's flag. I'd have been less offended if he ripped it in two.



"The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist. And the greatest trick Hulk Hogan ever played was convincing the world workrate didn't exist."
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 4 hours
ICQ:  
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.33
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Hey El Nastio, don't forget Shawn did this in close proximity to November 11th, which is Canada's Remembrance Day (like Veteran's Day in the U.S.)

    He can be born again all he likes, but there was no excuse for this prick picking his nose with and humping any country's flag. I'd have been less offended if he ripped it in two.





If he's sorry, well, he's sorry. Forgiveness is forgiveness. But bloody right, that is by far WORSE than what the "Un-Americians" are doing.

(edited by El Nastio on 8.8.02 0306)



"D-Von actually gets his head stuck up Rikishi's _ss and I am filled with love. love for wrestling. love for you. a love so true. like a perfect love. like a man and a woman. like a true wrestling fan and his or her love for CHRIS MOTHER____ING BENOIT."

- DEAN RASMUSSEN, Workrate Report 8/1/2002
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 3 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Wrestlers have been slamming America to get heel heat for decades. Long before any of us were born, I'd wager. It's not going to end anytime soon.

I love America, but you have to stand back and consider what the Un-Americans are saying. I have no doubt, for example, that most 14-year-old girls can name every Britney Spears song, yet cannot list the Bill of Rights. Hell, I can't list the Bill of Rights, not off the top of my head.

While Elvis Presley, Marilyn Monroe, John Wayne and Babe Ruth did live as larger-than-life American icons, the fact is that Storm did tell the truth about them. He twisted it slightly out of context, but he was telling the truth.

Now, I agree that the comments about Bush and 9/11 hit below the belt, but the fact is that we wouldn't be so upset about what he said if it wasn't somewhat true. The thing is, the government couldn't prevent 9/11, even though evidence is starting to mount that tells me they should have seen something coming. Now, I wouldn't call America a “weakened bully”, but it is my understanding that our allies are somewhat pissed at us because of our tendency to act unilaterally. They backed us up when we wanted to attack Afghanistan and get Osama, but then Bush said, “Let's get Saddam Hussein, too!” and everybody else is like, “Uhhh, no.” Yet Bush wants to do it anyway.

I don't think that the entire rest of the world hates us, but I can certainly see why they might resent us. It's been the tendency of American politicians to say, “Screw what the rest of the world wants, we're America, dammit, no one tells us what to do.” How else do you explain why we didn't join the League of Nations after WW1, even though it was Woodrow Wilson's idea? How else do you explain that we were pretty much willing to let Europe and the rest of the world be conquered by the Nazis without lifting a finger to stop them (until Japan made an ill-advised attack on us)? During those times in our history, America was very much the isolationist country.

But after World War II, it seemed we became too aggressive. “The stated goal of the Soviet Union is global terrorism, dammit, and we have to stop communism from spreading before it's too late.” Hence our involvement in the unpopular wars in Korea and Vietnam. Now, I'm not going to sit here and criticize those who fought in those wars-- quite the contrary, I praise them for doing what their country asked of them, even if it was an unpopular thing to do. But I have to ask, what was it all for?

For the most part, I'm very anti-war, although I believe that WW2 and the current War on Terrorism are necessary. But anyway, getting back to what I was saying.

In the United States, there is freedom of speech. Lance Storm, Christian and Test have the right to criticize America or anything else all they want to, as long as they don't break the law. But I contend that it wouldn't break the “boundary of good taste” if it wasn't, in some form, true.



“You read about all these terrorists -- most of them came here legally, but they hung around on these expired visas, some for as long as 10-15 years. Now, compare that to Blockbuster; you are two days late with a video and those people are all over you. Let's put Blockbuster in charge of immigration.”

E-mail joke letter, 7/25/02

Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02

ICEMAN
Landjager








Since: 23.5.02
From: Nashville,TN

Since last post: 1693 days
Last activity: 1382 days
#50 Posted on
I don't hate America because there are 14-year-old girls who know all Britney Spears songs but can't list the Bill of Rights,I just hate the dumbass girls.


And Britney Spears,of course for brainwashing them.:)



I am immortal
I have inside me blood of kings
I have no rival,no man can be my equal
So take me to the future of of your world
---Queen,Princes of the Universe


Do or Do Not,There is no try.
---Yoda

Calvary's here;calvary's a frightened guy with a rock but it's here.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1087 days
Last activity: 884 days
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.09

    Originally posted by ICEMAN
    I don't hate America because there are 14-year-old girls who know all Britney Spears songs but can't list the Bill of Rights,I just hate the dumbass girls.


I don't hate America because of that either. I hate the fact that children are not taught the Bill of Rights, that the Civil War was all about slavery, and the rest of the politically correct sanitized version of American history the teacher's union forces down the throats of our youth.
ICEMAN
Landjager








Since: 23.5.02
From: Nashville,TN

Since last post: 1693 days
Last activity: 1382 days
#52 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis

      Originally posted by ICEMAN
      I don't hate America because there are 14-year-old girls who know all Britney Spears songs but can't list the Bill of Rights,I just hate the dumbass girls.


    I don't hate America because of that either. I hate the fact that children are not taught the Bill of Rights, that the Civil War was all about slavery, and the rest of the politically correct sanitized version of American history the teacher's union forces down the throats of our youth.




I went to,possibly,one of the worst high schools in the state of Tennessee but by far we had one of the best History departments in the whole school district,probably the state.

And I was taught all these things.I just feel bad because a lot of kids today don't want to learn,they just want to do what is popular,be popular and don't care if they are stupid for the rest their life.






I am immortal
I have inside me blood of kings
I have no rival,no man can be my equal
So take me to the future of of your world
---Queen,Princes of the Universe


Do or Do Not,There is no try.
---Yoda

Calvary's here;calvary's a frightened guy with a rock but it's here.
BretHart1985
Tocino








Since: 25.7.02
From: NYC

Since last post: 4246 days
Last activity: 4232 days
#53 Posted on

    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    Wrestlers have been slamming America to get heel heat for decades. Long before any of us were born, I'd wager. It's not going to end anytime soon.

    I love America, but you have to stand back and consider what the Un-Americans are saying. I have no doubt, for example, that most 14-year-old girls can name every Britney Spears song, yet cannot list the Bill of Rights. Hell, I can't list the Bill of Rights, not off the top of my head.

    While Elvis Presley, Marilyn Monroe, John Wayne and Babe Ruth did live as larger-than-life American icons, the fact is that Storm did tell the truth about them. He twisted it slightly out of context, but he was telling the truth.

    Now, I agree that the comments about Bush and 9/11 hit below the belt, but the fact is that we wouldn't be so upset about what he said if it wasn't somewhat true. The thing is, the government couldn't prevent 9/11, even though evidence is starting to mount that tells me they should have seen something coming. Now, I wouldn't call America a “weakened bully”, but it is my understanding that our allies are somewhat pissed at us because of our tendency to act unilaterally. They backed us up when we wanted to attack Afghanistan and get Osama, but then Bush said, “Let's get Saddam Hussein, too!” and everybody else is like, “Uhhh, no.” Yet Bush wants to do it anyway.

    I don't think that the entire rest of the world hates us, but I can certainly see why they might resent us. It's been the tendency of American politicians to say, “Screw what the rest of the world wants, we're America, dammit, no one tells us what to do.” How else do you explain why we didn't join the League of Nations after WW1, even though it was Woodrow Wilson's idea? How else do you explain that we were pretty much willing to let Europe and the rest of the world be conquered by the Nazis without lifting a finger to stop them (until Japan made an ill-advised attack on us)? During those times in our history, America was very much the isolationist country.

    But after World War II, it seemed we became too aggressive. “The stated goal of the Soviet Union is global terrorism, dammit, and we have to stop communism from spreading before it's too late.” Hence our involvement in the unpopular wars in Korea and Vietnam. Now, I'm not going to sit here and criticize those who fought in those wars-- quite the contrary, I praise them for doing what their country asked of them, even if it was an unpopular thing to do. But I have to ask, what was it all for?

    For the most part, I'm very anti-war, although I believe that WW2 and the current War on Terrorism are necessary. But anyway, getting back to what I was saying.

    In the United States, there is freedom of speech. Lance Storm, Christian and Test have the right to criticize America or anything else all they want to, as long as they don't break the law. But I contend that it wouldn't break the “boundary of good taste” if it wasn't, in some form, true.




This is the most intelligent post I have seen on this subject. You've proved me wrong, maybe the Un-Americans angle isn't completely deragatory to 9/11. Maybe My feelings were not warranted. Good post. But we'll just have to wait and see for the first two weeks of September to see if they pull any really obscene shit.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1087 days
Last activity: 884 days
#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.09

    Originally posted by BretHart1985

      But we'll just have to wait and see for the first two weeks of September to see if they pull any really obscene shit.


    I think they'll skip it. Mainly because it's good for business mind you, but they'll probably skip it.
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3407 days
Last activity: 1827 days
#55 Posted on
After what happened to Bill Maher and Politically Incorrect after his comments I am shocked that any television show is touching this subject with a 10 foot flag poll.

I think commentating on the War is really pushing it. But any comment at all about what happened at 9/11 which some of Storms comments seem to hit "He couldn't defend his own country" (which some took as Bush skipping the war. But I took amoung others of he couldn't protect America in 9/11) and the "weakened bully that is no longer to be feared...or even respected" again very errie.

Again I do not believe in the "if it gives heat do it". I think there are stuff you don't touch, and has no place on a wrestling program.



I don't get it, everyone loves rats, but they don't want to drink the rats milk?
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3566 days
Last activity: 3035 days
AIM:  
#56 Posted on
    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    After what happened to Bill Maher and Politically Incorrect after his comments I am shocked that any television show is touching this subject with a 10 foot flag poll.

    I think commentating on the War is really pushing it. But any comment at all about what happened at 9/11 which some of Storms comments seem to hit "He couldn't defend his own country" (which some took as Bush skipping the war. But I took amoung others of he couldn't protect America in 9/11) and the "weakened bully that is no longer to be feared...or even respected" again very errie.

    Again I do not believe in the "if it gives heat do it". I think there are stuff you don't touch, and has no place on a wrestling program.



Honestly, I think it was intended to be aimed toward his war record. Think about it this way: a terror attack like what happened there is all but impossible to defend against, even with the most draconian and paranoid of security measures. If some loon is really determined to blow himself up and take a chunk of something important with him, has the time to come up with a plan, and knows what he's doing, he's very likely to succeed unless some monstrously bad luck affects him. It's not like they hijacked the planes halfway across the ocean and flew on a straight course toward the towers, broadcasting their intentions on every frequency they could find.

Plus, there's one other thing that hasn't been addressed. Storm and Co. are ostensibly taking the rest of the world's viewpoint on the USA (or, they claim they are). With few exceptions, the world was very, very sympathetic to the US as far as the terror attacks went. It seems foolish for them to go against the rest of their schtick on that issue.

What I think it was was poor writing, or possibly bad interpretation by Storm when he spoke his lines. If he'd said it like this: "He wouldn't even defend his own country" or even changed the line to something like "Your last two presidents didn't even have the courage to join your army to defend your country", it'd have been a lot less vague, and a lot closer to their normal tactics of "telling uncomfortable truths". It wouldn't be the first time a wrestler's flubbed a line, just a really, really unfortunate one. And it certainly wouldn't be the first time the writers wrote something that could've been said better in a different way.

(edited by Nate The Snake on 8.8.02 1733)


Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
Lew Zealand
Weisswurst








Since: 8.8.02

Since last post: 4262 days
Last activity: 4262 days
#57 Posted on
Say what you want about the Un-Americans angle, but why is it all right for America to kill innocent people in Afghanistan, but it isn't alright for Lance Storm to talk about it?
Jubuki
Kolbasz








Since: 16.7.02

Since last post: 4210 days
Last activity: 4193 days
#58 Posted on
Because he isn't talking about it? He's spouting off somewhat random incendiary crap. Were he taking actual news headlines and shoving them in people's faces, I'd really be wondered where this angle was headed.

And I'd have to disagree with the people who say, "You're angry, the angle is working." It isn't. Those who are mad are mad at the BOOKERS who are allowing it. I seriously doubt anyone here really wants to take a cheap shot at Prance Storm over this - if anything, talking to him man-to-man would probably show he and the others are uncomfortable with it themselves.



Chris
The AIR RAID CRASH
commie_050
Cotechino








Since: 8.8.02
From: San Antonio, TX

Since last post: 3564 days
Last activity: 3562 days
#59 Posted on
Personally, I haven't found the angle to be in best taste in the least, in fact my great problem with the angle is the way in which JR and the King have to act absolutely aghast whenever the Un-Americans appear on the screen. When HBK was humping the Canadien flag, JR offered a simple apology, nothing more. Now, Test carries an upside down American flag and JR wants to releases the hosses of hell to rip apart his flesh. May be, I'm exaggerating, but you get the point. The problem is, the Un-Americans have legitimate point, but its all rendered meaningless because "it's only wrestling." I say forget Christian or Storm as they're mouthpiece, get Noam Chomsky.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 151 days
Last activity: 145 days
#60 Posted on

    Originally posted by commie_050
    I say forget Christian or Storm as they're mouthpiece, get Noam Chomsky.


Isn't pro wrestling idiotic enough?



George Washington gave his signature
The Government gave its hand
They said for now and ever more that this was Indian Land

"As long as the moon shall rise"
"As long as the rivers flow"
"As long as the sun will shine"
"As long as the grass shall grow"


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ODB is still champ and I see her keeping since D'Amota is back booking the division. The Tag Tournament looks good plus the roster includes:
- lotjx, RAW #849 8/31/09 (2009)
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