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The W - Pro Wrestling - The (abridged) return of the WWE title histories
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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.66
WWE.com has opened a section for the title histories, but not for every belt (yet). The tag team belt section is only for the SmackDown gold.:

http://www.wwe.com/inside/title_history/



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Since: 25.4.03
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.67

Something I've always wondered and I'll be interested to see how/if they address this ...

Does WWE recognize RAW's "big Gold belt" and it's NWA/WCW lineage or does its lineage begin with the night that Eric Bischoff awarded the title to Triple H on RAW?





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Since: 17.11.03
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.63
    Originally posted by Mayhem

    Something I've always wondered and I'll be interested to see how/if they address this ...

    Does WWE recognize RAW's "big Gold belt" and it's NWA/WCW lineage or does its lineage begin with the night that Eric Bischoff awarded the title to Triple H on RAW?


Technically the WCW/NWA lineage (really just the WCW lineage, but that's a seperate discussion altogether) goes to the belt that JBL is wearing.









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Since: 25.4.03
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.67
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
    Technically the WCW/NWA lineage (really just the WCW lineage, but that's a seperate discussion altogether) goes to the belt that JBL is wearing


The whole NWA/WCW thing is kinda a gray area for me.

So are you saying that the NWA/WCW title lineage associated with the WWE Championship that JBL currently holds on Smackdown, went with Brock Lesnar when he jumped to become "exclusive" to SD when he was the unified, undisputed champion?

I've always been a fan of having the US title on RAW as the secondary title the big gold World title and moving the IC title to Smackdown to go with the WWE Championship, because I feel that the history of the NWA/WCW championships should be recognized with the World title.





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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.63
    Originally posted by Mayhem
      Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
      Technically the WCW/NWA lineage (really just the WCW lineage, but that's a seperate discussion altogether) goes to the belt that JBL is wearing


    The whole NWA/WCW thing is kinda a gray area for me.

    So are you saying that the NWA/WCW title lineage associated with the WWE Championship that JBL currently holds on Smackdown, went with Brock Lesnar when he jumped to become "exclusive" to SD when he was the unified, undisputed champion?




I'm just going to bulletpoint this or I'll be writing this post all afternoon.

-What is recognized as the NWA World Title was detatched from the WCW World Title in 1991 when the WCW World Title was stripped from Ric Flair in 1991. Even after Lex Luger was the WCW World champion, Flair was still the recognized NWA World Champion until September 1991 when his no-compete expired and could now join the WWF. It gets more fun when you factor in that Luger was recognized as NWA World Champion for about 5 minutes in late 1991 and then not recognized as the NWA Champion when then-WCW honcho (and also then-NWA board member) Jim Herd tried an unsuccessful power play to repair the lineage at a time when the NWA World Title was being held by Matt Hocking's personal friend Joe Vacant.

-The next recognized NWA Champion after that was Masahiro Chono in August of 1992. So at that point, the WCW Title had no further connection to the NWA World Title. And by the time Flair and Sting had a unification match in 1994, it was to unify the WCW World Title and the WCW International Heavyweight Title, the confusion comes on this because:

a) they used the Big Gold Belt

b) It was called the NWA World Title upon its return in 1993 (when Muta brought it to a WCW PPV only to lose to Barry Windham), but after squabblings, WCW withdrew from the NWA cluster for good in 1993, at which point they redubbed the Big Gold Belt as a WCW championship.

-Flash forward to 2001, when the InVasion angle begins then ends, and for the sake of discussion here, The Rock was still in the WCW Title lineage even when WCW was shut down for good in the Survivor Series angle (we'll just say that the 2001 "World Heavyweight Title" that existed for three weeks= WCW Title, just so my head doesn't explode). Rock lost the title to Chris Jericho who unified it with the WWF World Title at Vengeance 2001, giving us an undisputed champion. So from this point, the WWF and the WCW World Titles were melded into one championship.

-Not long after HHH d. Jericho at Mania X-8, the two belts that Jericho was parading around with (the Big Gold Belt and the Attitude Era WWF Title Belt) both disappeared and replaced with the one Undisputed Heavyweight Champion's belt, the same belt now on Smackdown, which then went Hogan--->Taker--->Rock--->Lesnar, etc, all the way to JBL now. The title went back to being called the WWE Championship, as opposed to calling it the Undisputed World Title, after the return of the Big Gold Belt to RAW.

And that, by the way, was the SHORT answer to your question. Someone please get me some ice chips.



(edited by Blanket Jackson on 17.12.04 1228)

""We may boo Santa Claus and throw frozen batteries in the end zone, but we don't throw $7 beers. We don't waste those."
-Spurs forward and Philadelphia native Malik Rose, speaking on the Pacers-Pistons incident
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
So even though they still plainly use the Big Gold Belt, the World Heavyweight Title is not the same as the WCW Title, or the old World Heavyweight Title? I don't think that makes much sense. But, then again, it's WWE. Since when does anything have to make sense?



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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.91
It seemed to make sense to me. Chris Jericho unified the titles, and the unified title was passed around from Jericho>HHH>Hogan>'Taker>Rock>Brock until Lesnar went to SmackDown. Then, Bischoff created the Raw World Title out of thin air and gave it to HHH. They never officially "re-split" the title to give it a lineage, that I'm aware of.



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Since: 25.4.03
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.67

The reason I posed the question is that at Wresting Informer, they have a Title Histories section and do count the WCW lineage under the World Heavyweight title on RAW. It would be nice if WWE did the say, but like gugs said, it's WWE.





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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    Then, Bischoff created the Raw World Title out of thin air and gave it to HHH. They never officially "re-split" the title to give it a lineage, that I'm aware of.


I seem to remember, when the title was first awarded, that Bischoff said something along the lines of "You might remember this...it's the World Heavyweight Title." If he did, then wasn't he implying that it was the same World Heavyweight Title that had been united with the WWE Title at Vengeance 2001? And if so, wouldn't it then have all the history and lineage associated with it?



"He is the most overrated piece of crap in the league. He bitched and whined after he got his ass beaten in New England last year, so the NFL changed the rules. Then he got his ass beaten in New England again. Every year he's the top MVP candidate. Every year he's supposed to be the best. Every year he's going to carry the Colts to the Super Bowl. And every single year he goes to New England and gets his ass beaten. And his brother's a whiny little bitch." -A friend of mine, on Peyton Manning

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.91
Now, as far as I know, I believe WWE DOES link the World Title to the WCW Title. Hell, I've even heard JR refer to the World title as having been around since Hackenschmidt defeating Jenkins in aught-five, so they may even use the WCW "title in existance for one hundred years" bullshit.



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Since: 17.11.03
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.63
    Originally posted by gugs
      Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Then, Bischoff created the Raw World Title out of thin air and gave it to HHH. They never officially "re-split" the title to give it a lineage, that I'm aware of.


    I seem to remember, when the title was first awarded, that Bischoff said something along the lines of "You might remember this...it's the World Heavyweight Title." If he did, then wasn't he implying that it was the same World Heavyweight Title that had been united with the WWE Title at Vengeance 2001? And if so, wouldn't it then have all the history and lineage associated with it?


In story terms, by that point there was no WCW and the WCW Wrold Title held by The Rock had morphed into the World Title which was unified with the WWF Title in December 2001. The phrase "World Title" was just to plug a story hole that goes "How can someone be WCW Champion when there is no WCW?" Any reappearance of the Gold Belt from that point forward was starting a championship anew, it wasn't just split from the other title. Just because a belt disappears because it's unified with something else doesn't mean it's just been floating in a title belt Phantom Zone.

It's like how in 2003 they brought back what's essentially a new version of the I-C title after it was unified with the World Heavyweight Title at No Mercy 2002 and a new version of the U.S. Title two years after the first version of it was already unified with the IC title (in 2001) and those titles were later unified with the World Heavyweight Title; the one given to HHH in 2002, not Brock Lesnar's WWE title which had the WCW Title unified into it already.

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(edited by Blanket Jackson on 17.12.04 1423)

""We may boo Santa Claus and throw frozen batteries in the end zone, but we don't throw $7 beers. We don't waste those."
-Spurs forward and Philadelphia native Malik Rose, speaking on the Pacers-Pistons incident
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Since: 21.3.04
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.74
    Originally posted by gugs
      Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Then, Bischoff created the Raw World Title out of thin air and gave it to HHH. They never officially "re-split" the title to give it a lineage, that I'm aware of.


    I seem to remember, when the title was first awarded, that Bischoff said something along the lines of "You might remember this...it's the World Heavyweight Title." If he did, then wasn't he implying that it was the same World Heavyweight Title that had been united with the WWE Title at Vengeance 2001? And if so, wouldn't it then have all the history and lineage associated with it?


By agreeing with this statement of Bischoff then you go back further and agree with Bobby Heenan in 1991(?) that Flair was the real world's champion because he held the title belt. The belt does not make the lineage.

To me personally the WCW ended with Booker T. at the last Monday Nitro. Since WWF/E bought WCW and decided to carry the name on than I will recognize that, but at the same time refuse to confirm Rock, Angle, or even Taker (unified champion) as both former WCW and WWF champions, a high honor in old schoolers' eyes.

The Raw title is just that, the Raw world heavyweight title. It started there, just like the Smackdown tag team titles started on that show. The lineage starts when the title started. If they began to call the Raw belt the WCW title, then yes it could again be in the WCW lineage, but with a 3 year gap.



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Since: 12.12.01
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.68
Realistically, Josh Mann's account is right and it's a new belt out of thin air.

But broadly, you're still just supposed to associate it with the WCW belt and HHH is supposed to be the latest in a long line of travelling NWA world champions, but without those awful names WCW and NWA.

It's just that they did such a lazy job of creating the second title that aside from saying "the Undisputed Title is in dispute!" there was no good TV reason for them to have been split, other than Eric was mad.

If it makes you feel better, pretend that Jericho was hiding the WCW title in his locker for most of 2002, brought it to Raw when he jumped, lost it to Van Dam, who lost it to Triple H.
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.80
It appears as though the 'official' world title lineage begins with HHH in 2002, so no, I guess WWE isn't recognizing it as an extension of the WCW title. The belt is just a prop. Vince Russo would be so proud.

Interesting to see that the IC section did acknowledge the Jarrett/Razor/Holly matches of 1995 (first actual mention I can remember them getting) but not the Backlund/Inoki switches of the WWE title. I wonder if there will be any other interesting omissions by the time all the other sections are added.



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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.99
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    It appears as though the 'official' world title lineage begins with HHH in 2002, so no, I guess WWE isn't recognizing it as an extension of the WCW title.
Looking at the title history on the website, the intro refers to it as the WCW belt. They just aren't listing all the WCW title changes.

Back when HHH first got the belt, didn't Confidential do a whole thing on the history of the world heavyweight championship and how it went back to the NWA and all whatnots? I think they did. I'm pretty sure. Kinda sure. A tad bit sure.
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.78
I think it was resplit. Why else would the WWE Title no longer be referred to as "Undisputed" and again be referred to as it was before the unification? Same with the IC title. These were unsplittings, both officially and unofficially.



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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.30
There's basically two schools of thought.

THE "RAW" TITLE IS CRAP: Basically, the Undisputed Title absorbed the lineage of both WCW & WWF Championships into one ubertitle. When Undisputed Champion Brock Lesnar more or less refused to appear on RAW (citing his contract with Smackdown, which implied he throught Smackdown was better), RAW didn't cease to recognize Lesnar as the best wrestler in the WWE...it was obvious that he was. Lesnar just ceased to recognize RAW as a place for competition. RAW had to create their own title or be left as the lesser show. It's new. No history.

THE "RAW" TITLE IS THE WCW TITLE: It's the same belt. Ric Flair's always around it. There's good wrestling around it. Benoit won it. Though Bischoff never actually said that RAW no longer recognized Lesnar as their champion, he pulled out the old title (and thusly the recognition) and rebooted the old one.

I lean towards the first option. If they were planning on having the World Title be the WCW Title Version 2.0, they should've had the Undisputed Champ walk around with both old school belts (or just Lesnar during the split) and Bischoff could've asked for his belt back, because Lesnar didn't deserve to wear it anymore. Presto! Revived title. Because they didn't do that, I see it as a new title.



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Since: 17.10.04
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
    Originally posted by Freeway420
    There's basically two schools of thought.

    THE "RAW" TITLE IS CRAP

    THE "RAW" TITLE IS THE WCW TITLE

    I lean towards the first option.


The first one is the most technically correct, but since WWE obviously doesn't view the World title as inferior to the WWE title, they presumably see it the other way. As I recall Confidential ran a piece on the lineage of the WCW championship after it was awarded to HHH, just to assure us that it meant something. That, to me, suggests the promotion sees the World title as a continuation of the belt Booker T won on the last Nitro and took into the Invasion. (Then again, I just remembered World champion HHH mocking the WCW title as a joke a couple of years ago...)

    Originally posted by Freeway420
    If they were planning on having the World Title be the WCW Title Version 2.0, they should've had the Undisputed Champ walk around with both old school belts (or just Lesnar during the split) and Bischoff could've asked for his belt back, because Lesnar didn't deserve to wear it anymore. Presto! Revived title. Because they didn't do that, I see it as a new title.


I think it would have been a huge disservice to Brock to have him surrender half of his championship over a stiff warning from Bischoff. Actually, a better version of your scenario might have been if HHH had been granted a title shot against Brock the night after Summerslam, resulting in a controversial finish. Brock claims victory and jumps to Smackdown, Bischoff declares HHH the winner, instant dispute to rend the undisputed title.

What they ended up doing wasn't too far off, though. Brock left immediately after HHH defeated the Undertaker to become the #1 contender. It could be inferred that Brock was ducking HHH, and in essence forfeited the title match HHH had earned against him. In a way WWE simply spared us the legal minutiae and just handed HHH a belt without explanation.
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Since: 24.3.02
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.32
They're still telling the Patterson tournament myth, although this is a little different than I usually heard it.

PAT PATTERSON
Sept. 15, 1979 - April 21, 1980

WWE Hall of Famer Pat Patterson defeated Ted DiBiase for the newly-created WWE North American Championship. Patterson then went to Rio De Janeiro in September 1979, where he defended the title in a tournament. He then unified his title with the South American Championship, thus becoming the first-ever Intercontinental Champion.



NOTE: The above post makes no sense. We apologize for the inconvenience.
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Since: 3.1.02
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
When Bischoff first gave the "World Heavyweight Title" to HHH in 2002, there was no mention of it being the NWA or WCW title. We were supposed to believe it was a brand new title handed to HHH.

A few weeks later they did a peice on Confidential explaining that this new World Heavyweight title WAS the NWA AND WCW World Title (which in itself is bullshit). Only problem is like 10% of the WWE's audience watched Confidential, so nobody really understood it still on RAW. HHH and JR still mention it being the same title that greats such as Race, Flair and Rhodes held.

Then this would mean that the title JBL is currently holding, is just the WWF World Championship going back to Buddy Rogers in the 60s. But WWE has never come out and said that, they still treat this title as a Unified, Undisputed championship.

ALSO, it looks like this title history is treating the Smackdown Tag Titles as THE WWE World Tag Team Titles, even though the Smackdown Tag Titles were created in a tournament in 2002 (or 2003 I forget). The World Tag Team titles on RAW would be the WWF Tag Titles, and even the WCW Tag Titles.

(edited by FMW on 18.12.04 1412)

(edited by FMW on 18.12.04 1415)

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