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The W - Internet & Computers - That's it -- I've had it with Windows
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emma
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Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.48
OK, without starting a full-on religious war...

I have just now officially hit the wall with Windows. Sick of it, over it, completely fed up with dealing with it. I'm an operating system girl -- I've written device drivers for everything from NT to Unix to VxWorks to proprietary RT systems, I'm perfectly comfortable debugging kernels, I've written OS patches, I've done the "early adopter" thing on beta & even alpha versions of operating systems. I've written proprietary operating systems, for diety-of-your-choice's sakes!! I've stripped & fluffed & customised all sorts of systems, including most of the generations of Windows. (Here's an oxymoron for you: "fault tolerant NT".)

I'm over it with Windows.

Can anybody give me a compelling reason why I shouldn't just trundle myself down to the neighbourhood Apple store & get a damn machine that (reportedly) just works. Have I finally been swayed by the Mac commercials with the 2 guys? Or did I just have to completely hit the wall before I wised up?

I could slap something unix-y on my current Windows box. At least if I'm going to have to dork around with a system, I'd rather dork around inside a fun one!

I am just so over it.
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
Get a Mac. Control of the hardware and OS means it really does just work. There are a limited number of combinations, and in the event of a problem it is much more likely that your issue will be logged and resolved as your hardware is just like X users who will also run into it.

It may not be perfect, but you won't be killing yourself trying to get it all to work. It's more of a really nice sedan than rocket car though - you give up on some possible performance tweaks by not having absolute control of everything, but it is nice.

With the option of dual booting for mission critical Windows apps (government stuff, VB apps you have to have like the Treasury department's savings bonds calculator, etc) you can use a license of Windows XP that you probably already own and get that set up, so really there is no good reason not to if you are inclined to spend the money.

It's the same reason I run TiVo on my TVs even though I own a media center XP machine.




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Since: 7.2.02

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.81
    Originally posted by emma
    I could slap something unix-y on my current Windows box. At least if I'm going to have to dork around with a system, I'd rather dork around inside a fun one!

    I am just so over it.


I installed Ubuntu about two years ago on my old XP machine, and it went from being a dork-out box to a functional part of our home network. We use it as both a print server and file server for my girlfriend's XP laptop and my powerbook. I can SSH or use an SCP/SFTP client and grab files I need from anywhere.

I don't miss windows at all.



"Oh my God! They have a shit-load of Cockapoo stuff!"
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AWArulz
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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.47
If you want to go simple and just surf the web and run the programs they let you, get a Mac. That's the one my kitty cat uses and he's not challenged by it. He likes to chase the mouse. Obviously, since there's not so many combinations and possibilities, a mac is better for people who have money and want ease of use.

I have never had a major PC problem and I run all sorts of programs, from office to accounting, to WoW to my Bible software, to personally written programs to proprietary software to dosapps from back when Bill Gates had unmanaged hair. Have I had a hard drive crash? Sure. About 4 years ago? Have I had programs that wouldn't run? Yes, but that was mostly the problem with the program.

Do I like the flexibility? Yes. Do the myriad of drivers and the complexity of the registry frustrate me? Of course.

But I have used a Mac (I was forced to for a couple years) and I was much more frustrated by what I couldn't do with it, things I was unable to change.

Now that may all be fixed, and it was probably my inexperience with a Mac that intensified my frustration with the product. Probably has something to do with my sort-of friendship with Wozniak and my perception (and his, at least at the time) that Jobs is an ass as well.

Although, Wozniak uses a Mac, or did, the last time I had any contact with him, several years ago. Of course, he still likes the AppleII (and I do too).

Linux - well, I have fooled with it, and once again, I haven't enough experience to say enough. I found it unweildy. I am sure it is great. I have extensively used OS/2 and love it, but there are limitations there as well. It won't run newer windows apps well, and some not at all. But it's awesome on windowsX apps and dos and of course OS/2 apps.

I still think Windows is best, although I am willing to switch (but would be resistant to go to a Mac for the reasons I stated) if I can find a relatively easy thing that runs the programs I want it to run. I need more than a print server. (I have an eight year old windows 95 laptop doing that at my house)



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Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.52
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    If you want to go simple and just surf the web and run the programs they let you, get a Mac. That's the one my kitty cat uses and he's not challenged by it. He likes to chase the mouse. Obviously, since there's not so many combinations and possibilities, a mac is better for people who have money and want ease of use.


Wait, that's a troll, right? That's allowed around here now?

I have a Mac, and for just about every piece of Windows software you can think of, there's either a Mac version or equivalent. And if there is ever a reason I need to boot into Windows, I can do that through Boot Camp, or even better, I can run the application right through my Mac with Parallels. So you must have a very intelligent cat.

I mean, if your only experience was with OS9, I'd be right there with you. That's where I cut my teeth with Macs, and I HATED it. But to dismiss Macs outright now just because some beef you have with Steve Jobs, well, I guess that's your right, but it's a little short-sighted. Jobs may be an ass, but his team at Apple has put together an operating system so strong that I don't even have to consider booting into Windows at all anymore. What other OS developer has been able to say that recently?



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wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by Battlezone
      Originally posted by AWArulz
      If you want to go simple and just surf the web and run the programs they let you, get a Mac. That's the one my kitty cat uses and he's not challenged by it. He likes to chase the mouse. Obviously, since there's not so many combinations and possibilities, a mac is better for people who have money and want ease of use.


    Wait, that's a troll, right? That's allowed around here now?

    I have a Mac, and for just about every piece of Windows software you can think of, there's either a Mac version or equivalent. And if there is ever a reason I need to boot into Windows, I can do that through Boot Camp, or even better, I can run the application right through my Mac with Parallels. So you must have a very intelligent cat.

    I mean, if your only experience was with OS9, I'd be right there with you. That's where I cut my teeth with Macs, and I HATED it. But to dismiss Macs outright now just because some beef you have with Steve Jobs, well, I guess that's your right, but it's a little short-sighted. Jobs may be an ass, but his team at Apple has put together an operating system so strong that I don't even have to consider booting into Windows at all anymore. What other OS developer has been able to say that recently?


Honestly I still hate the Mac OS. I MUST have the ability to tinker with everything, inside and out and it kills me to not be able to. No one ever said Windows was perfect and anyone expecting it to be is an idiot. If you want zero flaws you have to give up almost all control, and I shall never go that route.

I'm not sure what people expect from an OS that has to try and be everything to everyone. Personally, as another who knows his stuff and has done this for years and years, my Windows systems almost never give me any trouble.
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.56
    Originally posted by emma
    Can anybody give me a compelling reason why I shouldn't just trundle myself down to the neighbourhood Apple store & get a damn machine that (reportedly) just works.


No. I ::heart:: my MacBook Pro.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

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emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 8 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.48
Meow.

Thanks for all the input!

Y'know AWA, I'm thinking that your observations have actually clarified my requirements for me -- thank you! (No, really! Define the requirements -- meet the requirements. Be there, aloha.) I may have become a bit schizophrenic over time -- I think I am indeed looking for a duality of solutions. And Windows doesn't really satisy either side for me any more.

Sometimes I just want to surf the web & read my email. (Mouse chasing is optional.) And I just expect that to work. "Internet appliance" -- grandma &/or your cat should be all over it -- easy-peasy. In that brain state, I really don't want to have to worry my pretty little head about ...

Things like drivers arguing over interrupt vectors or hardware failures aren't an issue at all. That's not what's pushed me over the edge. Arbitrary BSODs out of the blue (might be nice if you would tell me *which* driver decided to jump to 0x0000), or registry corruptions ('cause the system was in a bad mood during the previous shutdown), or "random" corruptions of the (plethora of randomly scattered) OS files -- when I know I've done less "system stuff" than your cat -- that's just not good times for me any more.

If I do feel the need to be a dirty girl ... well, I want it all -- gimme the kernel source code & let me have my way with it. In that mindset, I'll happily wallow around all the system crashes I can generate -- I've got the control to break it, & I've got the control to fix it. 'Das cool. But Bill doesn't really give me that either. Set the registers & hit the software interrupt is peachy, but only if I'm on the other side of that INT too. And last I knew, Bill wasn't publishing NT kernel source.

(And clearly, "the L Word" isn't the be-all & end-all for open source unix-ish systems. If there isn't a "B as in Berkeley" in the name, it's just a pile o' hacking. :-) )

So I'm thinking that you've helped me clarify that I do have 2 totally separate sets of requirements for systems. And while Bill's system may have been a satisfactory compromise for me in the past, it's not making it on either front for me now. Which is a valuable insight.
AWArulz
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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.49
Like I said, that's why they make different boxes.

But here's my challenge, emmma - let's say you get one of the pretty cupertino boxes - will you then kind of check back in with a satisfaction rating six months after/1 year after? I think you'll find, in general, people who read conferences like these expect a tad more out of their PCs, do a tad more with their PCs. In some cases, they are limited to a great extent to certain operating systems (I know I currently am) and I am interested to see how the transition works for someone.

I moved myself on a primary basis about 8-9 years ago and it was, shall we say, traumatic for awhile. (This was OS/2 to Windows 95 or maybe 98 - I can't recall). So, look forward to your observations.



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Since: 20.6.02
From: Kolob

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.54
Emma: what inspired your rant? I'm looking into Macs because they seem safer against viruses and hackers. I also like having the ability to run Windows on a Mac if I need it (which I would, for various games I enjoy playing).



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emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 1 day
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.05
    Originally posted by Oliver
    Emma: what inspired your rant?
Nothing spectacular at all. Proverbial straw, proverbial camel. (Add obnoxous camel noise to the "meow" above.) Just one too many times where the system puked on itself & I had to waste a bunch of my time messing with straightening out the mess that it always makes of itself.

I haven't bought the Mac yet -- a friend dangled the possibility of a Solaris laptop in front of me, & I got distracted. Cats (& camels,. I'm told) are like that with shiny objects. I'll let y'all know when it does happen -- good or bad.
brick
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Since: 17.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.00
Can you run Excell and Word on a mac? I'm looking into getting a new laptop, and all we really use the home computer for is intraweb, home finances and the occasional game (I got Rise of Legends as a gift, but can't get my computer to play it for more than a few minutes at a time, forget online).

My wife uses the camera for talking to her family, and the mac's have that built in.

the big thing that would hold me back is that all of my records for my rental properties are on excell spreadsheets. And while I'm sure I could recreate them on another speadsheet program, I also occasionaly bring home spreadsheets from work so that I can bang away at them at home. Same with word docs.
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
    Originally posted by brick
    Can you run Excell and Word on a mac? I'm looking into getting a new laptop, and all we really use the home computer for is intraweb, home finances and the occasional game (I got Rise of Legends as a gift, but can't get my computer to play it for more than a few minutes at a time, forget online).

    My wife uses the camera for talking to her family, and the mac's have that built in.

    the big thing that would hold me back is that all of my records for my rental properties are on excell spreadsheets. And while I'm sure I could recreate them on another speadsheet program, I also occasionaly bring home spreadsheets from work so that I can bang away at them at home. Same with word docs.


I use Excel and Word every day. They are perfectly great on a Mac. The only occassional hiccup is sometimes if I get a spreadsheet or Word document from a PC user the fonts don't matchup because there are two entirely different formats for the fonts.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
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Jericholic53
Boerewors








Since: 18.3.03
From: Honolulu, HI

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by brick
      Can you run Excell and Word on a mac? I'm looking into getting a new laptop, and all we really use the home computer for is intraweb, home finances and the occasional game (I got Rise of Legends as a gift, but can't get my computer to play it for more than a few minutes at a time, forget online).

      My wife uses the camera for talking to her family, and the mac's have that built in.

      the big thing that would hold me back is that all of my records for my rental properties are on excell spreadsheets. And while I'm sure I could recreate them on another speadsheet program, I also occasionaly bring home spreadsheets from work so that I can bang away at them at home. Same with word docs.


    I use Excel and Word every day. They are perfectly great on a Mac. The only occassional hiccup is sometimes if I get a spreadsheet or Word document from a PC user the fonts don't matchup because there are two entirely different formats for the fonts.


There are also open source alternatives that work pretty seamlessly with the MS office (saves in MS formats and has a very similar UI and functions): NeoOffice (neooffice.com) is actually pretty good and based on OpenOffice (openoffice.org). Personally I prefer NeoOffice simply because it looks better. I'm not a "power user" when it comes to Excel, but it and "Word" have worked fine for me. I think support for XML (the new Vista-based Office format) is coming soon too.

(edited by Jericholic53 on 30.1.07 1906)


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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
If you have extensive macro use in your spreadsheets, you may want to stick with Excel. Open Office can open plain data spreadsheets and handles formulas well, but the VB and Older macro languages don't work well from what I've heard.

The nice thing is you can try OpenOffice.org and NeoOffice for free before buying MS Office, and it's an easy install.




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emma
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Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.05
Got home from the Apple store (aka the Church of Mac) with a shiny new MacBook at 1:40. It's now 2:19 & I'm typing at you on it. Just thought I'd share!
Leroy
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Since: 7.2.02

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.80
    Originally posted by emma
    Got home from the Apple store (aka the Church of Mac) with a shiny new MacBook at 1:40. It's now 2:19 & I'm typing at you on it. Just thought I'd share!


Might I recommend Native Mac OS X Apps?







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tarnish
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Since: 13.2.02
From: Back in the Heart of Hali

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.96

I kept meaning to reply to this and then kept not doing it.

My wife's Thinkpad has been in the throes of death for the past few months and the decision had to be made as to what to replace it with. She really wanted a laptop and she really wanted a Mac. I love my wife to death, but she's hard on gear, so I kept steering her away from any laptop of any kind and towards an iMac (20", upgraded to 2GB RAM).

She ended up ordering it the day before the iPhone/AppleTV announcement. For the last couple of years I've helped her with her Windows machine on a weekly, sometimes daily basis. Since the iMac arrived I think I've fielded one question: how to migrate her Outlook contacts. And with the help of teh Intarweeb that was taken care of in minutes.

She couldn't be happier; and neither could I. I'll stick with my Linux running on x86 hardware for now, but just looking at her iMac makes me wish I had one of those, too, especially when I see how much more comfortable, productive, and happy my wife is when she uses hers.
emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 1 day
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.05
Y'know, I'd completely missed out on the fact that OSX floats on top of BSD, & they quite happily expose that whole interface. The moment I discovered that was totally the point that, for me, did the deal. I've already quite giddily dropped down there for find, grep, sort xargs (!) & even vi! (That stuff flows directly from my brain stem to my fingerips -- gotta love that.) :-)
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