I am clueless when it comes to stunts like this. I am wondering if anybody has any insight into the stunt world and could tell me how they go about setting a man on BAH GAWD FAHR without all hell breaking loose. I mean, did JR have a special shirt on, or did they coat his shirt and pants with something, or was the liquid they poured on him something special, or what?
However they did it, it ROCKED, and whoever put that bit together deserves a big pat on the back and a hearty "Well Done". MAJOR kudos to good ol' J.R. for doing that - I mean, talk about a company man. How'd you like to go to work and have somebody say "OK, this week we're going to set you on fire."? AWESOME.
Don't know the specific "stunt tricks" involved, but I hope you were kidding about JR doing the stunt. That was most definitely *not* JR. Everything forward from Kane punching him was a JR stunt double. Seemed like a pretty obvious camera-cut to me.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it was an animatronic dummy. It just kind of flopped up and down when it was on fire. It was definately a double though, because when they put him out and we saw Ross again, he was neither burned nor covered in flame-retardant foam. Nice touch by one of the stagehands, by the way, who noticed this and sprayed the actual JR while they were assisting him. I thought the thing came together pretty decent, and hell, I'll always enjoy the idea of Jim Ross being set on fire. Just a shame Lawler wasn't there with him.
An animatronic dummy? C'mon. Let's get real here. Whenever they do a skit that is 'via satellite' clearly something is amiss. Last night, it just gave them the opportunity to have a pre-cut tape of the event played. Not hard to figure out.
1. Punch J.R. - He goes down.
2. Cut to stunt man laying on ground.
3. Pour flamable material on stunt man.
4. Light stunt man.
5. Stunt man screams and flops around.
6. Extiguish stunt man.
7. Cut to J.R. on the floor.
Presto - JR on fire.
That said, I didn't have a problem with the bit, but it doesn't take brain surgeons to figure out what they did.
Maybe it's just me, but I found it rather funny that while being on fire the body was virutally motionless. Whatever happened to stop, drop, and roll? The screams were saying (figuratively speaking) "Dear god help me!!!!" while the body language was saying "Meh, whatever."
Originally posted by YossinoICMaybe it's just me, but I found it rather funny that while being on fire the body was virutally motionless. Whatever happened to stop, drop, and roll? The screams were saying (figuratively speaking) "Dear god help me!!!!" while the body language was saying "Meh, whatever."
Weekend At Bernie's III: Boomer Sooner!
Guy# 1: You know, eventually they're gonna figure out that JR is actually dead. (Tape Recorder stuck to JR): By gawd, he's a hoss. Stone cold, stone cold, stone cold!!! Guy# 2: No they won't.
>However they did it, it ROCKED, and whoever put that bit together deserves a big pat on the back and a hearty "Well Done".
Uh, I wouldn't go that far in the praise.
What made the whole thing really lame and cheesy to me was when Kane threw the match onto JR. I'm sure everyone like me was expecting a huge "WOOOOOOOOOOOOF" when that match hit JR (it was supposed to be gasoline after all). But instead we just get this little embarrassing trickle of flame.
And also another poster on here made a great point on the fact that the screaming in pain sounds did not match the almost non-movement of the body at all.
With the money Vince has, I would think he would have pulled this off alot better than what you might see performed in a high school play.
"This just got a hell of a lot better." - Stifler, American Pie
Some people just expect too much. I suppose we needed some great CGI to make the scene perfect. Hell, why not CGI for Kane's face in the first place then?!?!
The angle is playing out way better than I ever expected. Sure JR on fire looked a tad hokey. But who cares? It is a good angle that seems pretty plotted out. I would rather have that then 100% awesome production values and crap to work with story wise...
Originally posted by Pool-BoySome people just expect too much. I suppose we needed some great CGI to make the scene perfect.
Actually no. This was a relatively easy scene to film, it just requires the employment of people who know how to film it. I don't expect RAW to be full of astounding visual effects, but it has to be better than this. He drenched the man in vasoline, and then dropped not one match, but an blazing matchbook on his body, and the flame never went past JR back. This was beyond stupid.
I mean, God, they could have spared the canned screams and just let Ross lay there. If he's supposed to be knocked out by the punch, that would explain the Santa Claus Parade Float movements the "victim" was making. It would explain why he wasn't rolling while on fire, something even a third-grader would have the sense to do. And it would have spared us the fake-ass screams.
There were so many ways this could have been done better. I think the best way is to simplfy it. Do the old "fire in the eyes" trick that I believe was last done by Foley to Undertaker sometime in 1997. Had Kane lit a fireball in Ross' face, it would have been more logical in terms of Ross absorbing the punishment (he caught me bah surprise bah gawd). It would have been less hokey, and more scientifically sound than gasoline that doesn't light. It would have kept Kane's life-long theme of fire going.
And it would have been 98% less retarded.
(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 15.7.03 1441) "Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
Sometimes I judge the product on what they're trying to accomplish. The fire stunt is a perfect example. It looked fake but this is wrestling. I forgive stuff like that the same way I forgive a light shot in the ring that someone sells too much. Last night I just took it as "Plot development: Kane sets Ross on fire" and left it at that. It didn't come off perfectly but most stuff doesn't.
The thing that did get me excited was the juicy storyline it set up with Bischoff, Jericho (Jericho) and Austin. JR didn't look so great being "set on fire" but the after effects made up for it. If they'd simply faded to black when JR was cooking I'd be singing a different tune.
And if I'd been watching at the time I wouldn't have thought "Plot development: The Shockmaster is menacing." I have my limits.
exactly. in addition to what people have already said about "the mask IS kane", something that makes me not want them to demask him is the simple fact that he is an over north american top tier worker with a mask that covers his entire face.