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20.9.14 0913
The W - Football - Temporarily Nameless Weekend (Page 2)
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Super Shane Spear
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.62
I realize that "they haven't played anybody," but for the sake of sanity, let's highlight common opponents for a second.

- Arizona State put up 33 and won versus Colorado, something Oklahoma couldn't do.

- Arizona State put up 41 points and won versus Stanford, something USC couldn't do.

- Arizona State put up 44 points and won versus Oregon State, something Cal couldn't do. Plus, I have enough faith that Rudy Carpenter, or his backup, or me even would know not to run down the middle with no timeouts and 12 seconds.

- Arizona State put up 45 points on San Jose State, something Hawaii couldn't do (but they were close...)

However USC, Oklahoma, and Cal will undoubtedly be ranked above ASU today, and Hawaii gets more coverage because of Colt.
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    has Ohio State actually played a real football team yet?


Washington to was feeling pretty spry at 2-0 and hung with the Buckeyes for a half before OSU's physical superiority took hold. They would surely have more than two wins if they hadn't played at UCLA, USC, and at ASU right after that game.

Hopefully Jake Locker's presence will bring some good players to UW for the next couple of years.



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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.56
In a college football season that makes absolutely no sense, is this the year that psychiatry's favorite team the Michigan State Spartans finally don't implode in a big game and knock off Ohio State?
It is a disgrace that Arizona State is #12 in both polls though. Only good thing for them is they potentially could play 3 teams ranked higher, thus, if they continue to win, they should start leapfrogging 1 loss teams.
Have to wonder what LSU will have left in the tank after 2 difficult games when they play Auburn this weekend. Those teams will beat the living shit out of each.
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.68
The AP Poll is in and can you believe it? It's Ohio State and SOUTH FLORIDA as your #1 and #2!

ESPN - Ohio State, South Florida 1-2 in AP poll


    The Buckeyes received 50 of a possible 65 first-place votes, and were not the only team to advance. South Florida, which had never been ranked before this season, moved up three spots to No. 2, leapfrogging No. 3 Boston College.

    The Bulls received 11 first-place votes after a 64-12 victory over Central Florida. BC's workmanlike 27-14 victory over Notre Dame helped get the Eagles one first-place vote. No. 4 Oklahoma and No. 5 LSU each received one first-place vote, as did No. 12 Arizona State.


I guess an anemic showing against Notre Dame says, "We're #3! We're #3!"




kwik
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Since: 5.9.02
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.83
Ohio St. and South Florida 1-2 in the BCS poll as well. BC, then LSU, and Oklahoma round out the top 5. The highest non-BCS conference school is Hawaii at 18, meaning they have some work to do to crash the party.



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wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by Battlezone
      Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Before the weekly South Florida is Good, South Florida is Bad, South Florida being ranked is the work of the devil argument breaks out, has Ohio State actually played a real football team yet? Could get to the title game playing the absolute worst schedule of any team to reach the game.



    Ohio State's schedule is backloaded. The problem is, all these other Big 10 teams keep knocking each other off before Ohio State gets to play them. If this were the SEC, it would be a sign of how strong the conference is, but since it's the Big 10, it just means the Big 10 sucks, or something.

    As far as this week's polls, I don't expect either LSU or Cal to drop too far, I wouldn't be surprised of LSU is still in the top 5. Kentucky should probably jump into the Top 10. No disrespect to South Florida, but I wouldn't be surprised if LSU only dropped a couple a spots, to say, third. The media loves the SEC, and all you'll hear about is LSU losing a tough conference game on the road in overtime.

    My guess:

    1. Ohio State
    2. Boston College
    3. LSU (probably still getting first-place votes, too)
    4. South Florida
    5. Oklahoma
    6. South Carolina
    7. Kentucky
    8. California
    9. Oregon
    10. USC


It's not that the media loves the SEC, it's those of us that watch college football realize that the SEC proves itself by having team and team compete for the national title and play great nonconference games(and win them) every year. Whereas the Big 10 made a joke of itself last season. It's not favortism, it's earned respect.
Cerebus
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Since: 17.11.02

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.48
Who's CRAZY now? (sports.espn.go.com)

USF is ranked #2 on both the AP poll AND the BCS standings.

I'm calling BULLshit (HAHAHA!) because USF has beaten 2 ranked teams (Auburn and West Virginia) and all Ohio's been able to beat are Purdue (hehehe...) and 6 other teams not even ranked.

This seems kinda unfair.



Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
Battlezone
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.47
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    It's not that the media loves the SEC, it's those of us that watch college football realize that the SEC proves itself by having team and team compete for the national title and play great nonconference games(and win them) every year. Whereas the Big 10 made a joke of itself last season. It's not favortism, it's earned respect.


The "joke" Big-10 went 2-1 against the mighty SEC last year.

Also, the idea that the SEC plays tough non-conference opponents is extremely laughable. The only surprising thing about Applachian State's win is that it DIDN'T come against an SEC team. The SEC schedules one or two tough non-conference games, then loads up on a bunch of cupcakes and falls back on the tired "we can get away with scheduling cupcakes because look at our conference play!" nonsense, as if Ohio State has any control over the fact that Minnesota is lousy.

    Originally posted by Cerebus
    I'm calling BULLshit (HAHAHA!) because USF has beaten 2 ranked teams (Auburn and West Virginia) and all Ohio's been able to beat are Purdue (hehehe...) and 6 other teams not even ranked.


Laugh at Ohio State's schedule all you want. I live in Seattle. I went to that Ohio State/Washington game. There was every expectation locally that Washington would win that game. The ESPN pundits were picking them to win. The fans expected them to win. And when Washington went into halftime with the lead, Husky Stadium was about to explode. And all Ohio State did was shut the door in the second half, save for a throway touchdown with a minute left. Two weeks later, USC had to rely on an onside kick recovery to sneak out with a win in that very same stadium.

Purdue came into their game with OSU game averaging 45 points a game. I don't care who you're playing, averaging 45 points a game is nothing to sneeze at. It took Purdue all of 59 minutes and 50 seconds to scrounge up a touchdown. At home.

Ohio State has beaten, at this point, the teams they are supposed to beat. Handily. You can't say that for Florida. You can't say that for USC. You can't say that for Oklahoma. This isn't a team that's been sneaking out of towns with victories agains lesser opponents, as in years past. The only team that's been as consistent all year is-surprise-South Florida. And I'll put Ohio State's remaining schedule against anyone in the country-even teams in the mighty, mighty SEC.

OSU: Remaining opponent's record: 25-10
USF: 22-17
BC: 22-10
Okla: 19-16
LSU: 17-16

(edited by Battlezone on 14.10.07 1655)

(edited by Battlezone on 14.10.07 1658)

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wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    Who's CRAZY now? (sports.espn.go.com)

    USF is ranked #2 on both the AP poll AND the BCS standings.

    I'm calling BULLshit (HAHAHA!) because USF has beaten 2 ranked teams (Auburn and West Virginia) and all Ohio's been able to beat are Purdue (hehehe...) and 6 other teams not even ranked.

    This seems kinda unfair.


No one said you were crazy, and the comments all clearly said "if Cal doesn't screw up" which they did. As is, I'm ok with USF being ranked where they are now because I see little chance they'll end up there. I see it as a once beaten LSU facing undefeated Ohio State for the national title. And if those two teams end with those records, no question at all they should get the nod over USF. Not even debatable really.

As for the Big 10, please. Oh 2-1 vs. the SEC? That Michigan stomping of Vandy sure is worth bragging about. Sure Wisconsin edging Arkansas by three is neat. Not as neat as say Florida whupping the holy shit out of Big 10 champ Ohio State, but hey brag all you want.

How many times have we seen the SEC prove it's worth? A team comes out of there with one loss to another SEC team but shows itself to be as good as anyone in the nation. You know what I really don't have a clue why I'm arguing this. Anyone with any sense that has watched college football over the past decade knows there is no doubt the SEC is the strongest conference. And my favorite team is in the ACC, so it's not even close to a homer call. It's just the facts. I wish my conference could claim to be as good, but I'd look like a fool to say so. As does any other conference right now.

Now I don't think for a second we can say Ohio State is just awesome, not after last year. But certainly that schedule doesn't look as tough as it might have before say half the Big 10 threw up on itself. If you don't think the Big 10 made a joke of itself, starting with last years bowl games, and moving into the beginning this season, you've apparently avoided watching, reading or hearing about college football in that time. I haven't been making the jokes(much) but one can't escape them really.

(edited by wmatistic on 14.10.07 1826)
Nuclear Winter
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Since: 9.11.03
From: Bedford, Michigan

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.88
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    It's not that the media loves the SEC, it's those of us that watch college football realize that the SEC proves itself by having team and team compete for the national title...


I'm not sure how you define "competing for the national title," but here are some stats.

Conference representation in the BCS National Championship game since its inception in 1998:
ACC, 6 teams
Big 12, 6 teams
PAC 10, 3 teams
SEC, 3 teams
Big 10, 2 teams

National Titles by conference, since 1997:
Big 12, 3
SEC, 3
ACC, 2
Big 10, 2
PAC 10, 2

As far as "competing" goes, I'd say the SEC (and the Big 10, for that matter) are way behind the ACC and Big 12 in recent history.

As far as "winning" national titles go, I'd say it's been pretty fairly distributed in recent history.



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Battlezone
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.47
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    As for the Big 10, please. Oh 2-1 vs. the SEC? That Michigan stomping of Vandy sure is worth bragging about. Sure Wisconsin edging Arkansas by three is neat. Not as neat as say Florida whupping the holy shit out of Big 10 champ Ohio State, but hey brag all you want.

    How many times have we seen the SEC prove it's worth? A team comes out of there with one loss to another SEC team but shows itself to be as good as anyone in the nation. You know what I really don't have a clue why I'm arguing this. Anyone with any sense that has watched college football over the past decade knows there is no doubt the SEC is the strongest conference. And my favorite team is in the ACC, so it's not even close to a homer call. It's just the facts. I wish my conference could claim to be as good, but I'd look like a fool to say so. As does any other conference right now.

    Now I don't think for a second we can say Ohio State is just awesome, not after last year. But certainly that schedule doesn't look as tough as it might have before say half the Big 10 threw up on itself. If you don't think the Big 10 made a joke of itself, starting with last years bowl games, and moving into the beginning this season, you've apparently avoided watching, reading or hearing about college football in that time. I haven't been making the jokes(much) but one can't escape them really.

    (edited by wmatistic on 14.10.07 1826)



Michigan stomping Vandy? What bowl game did that happen in?

See, here's the thing. I *do* watch the games. And in no way am I trying to discount the SEC (though I think the Pac-10 is stronger top to bottom). Nor am I suggesting the Big 10 is competing on the same level as the SEC right now.

But here's what bugs me:


    Now I don't think for a second we can say Ohio State is just awesome, not after last year. But certainly that schedule doesn't look as tough as it might have before say half the Big 10 threw up on itself.


Now, (and correct me if I'm misunderstanding you) that suggests that since half the Big 10 beat each other, the conference is somehow weak because there's no dominant team. But Vandy hung around with Florida a few weeks ago, and the "experts" were all over themselves lauding the depth and strength of the conference. Iowa knocked off Illinois, and instead of talking about the competiveness of Iowa, it was just another sign of how Illinois was overrated? That makes no sense to me.

I'm of the opinion that, in general, conference games are always going to be tougher than non-conference games because the teams play each other every year, and know each other's tricks and moves. At it's core, that's what the argument for the SEC is-the teams beat up on each other, so that's why they can't get through the conference unscathed. But I believe that happens in every conference. So you have to look at non-conference and bowl games to really judge how good a team or a conference is. And I believe that if the SEC was hands and shoulders above the rest of the BCS conferences, it would be reflected in the non-conference and bowl records. And it simply doesn't.

As for the polls, I was thinking about something on the way home. People always complain about preseason polls, and how it puts teams where they shouldn't, and any number of different complaints. But without those little numbers in front of the team names, would these last three weeks been as exciting as they have been?



"It's the four pillars of the male heterosexual psyche. We like naked women, stockings, lesbians, and Sean Connery best as James Bond because that is what being a [man] is." -Jack Davenport, Coupling
Zeruel
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by Battlezone
    Michigan stomping Vandy? What bowl game did that happen in?


No bowl game, that was last season's opening game for both teams. Michigan won 27-7 on Sept 2nd, 2006.



A quick look of the last 20 years, the conferences with the most AP national championships:
Big 8/12 (5): Colorado 1990; Nebraska 1994, 1995; Oklahoma 2000; Texas 2005
SEC (4): Alabama 1992; Florida 1996, 2006; Tennessee 1998
Independent (3): Miami 1987, 1989; Notre Dame 1988
ACC (2): FSU 1993, 1999
Big Ten (2): Michigan 1997, Ohio State 2002
Big East (2): Miami 1991, 2001
PAC 10 (2): USC 2003, 2004

The Big 8/12 (5) beats both the Big Ten (2) and SEC (4).

In the last 20 years, these are the conferences with the most UPI/CNN/ESPN/BCS/USA Today coaches' poll national championships:
Big 8/12 (5): Nebraska 1994, 1995, 1997; Oklahoma 2000; Texas 2005
SEC (5): Alabama 1992; Florida 1996, 2006; LSU 2003; Tennessee 1998
ACC (3): FSU 1993, 1999; Georgia Tech 1990
Independent (3): Miami 1987, 1989; Notre Dame 1988
PAC 10 (2): USC 2004; Washington 1991
Big Ten (1): Ohio State 2002
Big East (1): Miami 2001

The Big 8/12 (5) ties with the SEC (5), and has more than the Big Ten (1)

I think the Big 12 should get more props for winning national titles as they are only second (2 -- Oklahoma, Texas) to the SEC (3 -- Tennessee, LSU, Florida) in BCS champion teams. The other BCS confs are tied with one (ACC, Big Ten, and Pac 10). The former BCS conference champion tie-in Big East (the Orange Bowl -- Home of the ACC Champion -- dropped their champion as of this year) has one BCS champion...which now plays in the ACC.

(edited by Zeruel on 15.10.07 0437)

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Since: 12.2.02
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.07
Anyone can say what they want about conference strengths, but at least OSU is *winning* their games so far. Yes, they got blown out by Florida last year. Guess what? That was *last* year. It sure has served as a good inspiration for this year. If they win out this year, they've done their job. AGAIN.

As for scheduling, you can only do so much to get other big-name teams involved. How 'bout that easy schedule last year that included Texas? How about the cupcake game scheduled for Sept. 13th next year? (Note - sarcasm duly noted for wmatistic.) Play your schedule. Win your games. Lets see where the chips fall at the end of the season.




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wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by Nuclear Winter
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      It's not that the media loves the SEC, it's those of us that watch college football realize that the SEC proves itself by having team and team compete for the national title...


    I'm not sure how you define "competing for the national title," but here are some stats.

    Conference representation in the BCS National Championship game since its inception in 1998:
    ACC, 6 teams
    Big 12, 6 teams
    PAC 10, 3 teams
    SEC, 3 teams
    Big 10, 2 teams

    National Titles by conference, since 1997:
    Big 12, 3
    SEC, 3
    ACC, 2
    Big 10, 2
    PAC 10, 2

    As far as "competing" goes, I'd say the SEC (and the Big 10, for that matter) are way behind the ACC and Big 12 in recent history.

    As far as "winning" national titles go, I'd say it's been pretty fairly distributed in recent history.


Well those numbers aren't saying "teams" as in differenct teams, just how many times. For instance FSU played in at least three of those six ACC games that I recall(V-Tech/Tennessee/OU). Are you then including Miami in those numbers to get six? They played in two, and then I guess you mean V-Tech was the sixth. Which, with Miami and FSU not being close to what they were then, I don't know how anyone could look and say the ACC is all that great a conference now.

Similar with the Big 12. You have Nebraska, OU, and Texas. While at least OU and Texas keep that conference looking good, Nebraska is a shell of itself. And let's not forget that people were not happy with OU getting into one of those title games at all. That's a good conference though I think and I'd probably put them third behind the Pac 10 right now. Their titles were two by OU and one by Texas in your stats. Two teams.

The Pac 10's "3" is USC, USC, USC. Not sure how that equates to a strong conference. Kinda like me saying the ACC was a strong conference in the 90's cause of FSU alone. I do think the Pac 10 keeps getting better and has at least three really good teams this season, if not more. They're looking to turn into another SEC, in that they have a whole lot of great football teams.

The Big 10 would be more impressive to me if someone other than Ohio State could win a national title. That team is always very good, and sure Michigan and Penn State put together runs as does Wisconsin, but overall for the national title it's Ohio State and no one else lately.

Now with the SEC we have Tennessee, Florida and LSU. Three seperate teams, all three winning titles. This is what I mean. They have parity, with multiple teams winning it all. That's impressive to me.

I do totally understand the point of seeing conference teams beat each other and the SEC getting more credit for that than say the Big 10. The past couple of years I would tell myself the same thing with the ACC. That the conference just had more parity, not worse teams. But it rings pretty hollow when we see what those teams do in OOC play and more importantly, competing for the national title.

The only major conference I think is really pretty bad is the Big East. It's kinda the same reasoning. Since Miami, BC and V-Tech left, all of a sudden they had teams come from nowhere(well not Louisville, but the rest) and put up great records. But they weren't playing much OOC that meant anything. So to me, everyone saying wow they went from crap to awesome, makes no sense. That doesn't just happen with that many teams in no time flat. But everyone bought into it, and last year it even seemed kinda slightly justified, although still overdone by media and Big East fans.

I think this is a part of why I dont give South Florida the credit yet. I don't believe the Big East really has any great teams. Some good ones, but none great. Now that's not to say what they did to UCF wasn't impressive, cause it certainly was. They play like that the rest of the year and we'll talk. But from what I had seen before this weekend, they didn't look like they were capable of hanging with top teams in my view. They just didn't.

To show it's not just a small team bias, I recall when Notre Dame got off to it's hot start under Weiss and everyone was on their bandwagon, I kept saying no they really aren't that great, they have big flaws. And I got pounded for saying it until they finally showed those flaws. Then back when OU was running over everyone in the Big 12 a few years ago, including a huge ass whupping of Texas, I was saying no they haven't proven it to me yet. Don't look as good as their record, Big 12 is down this year, they always whup Texas. And OU fans hated me for it, until they got spanked by K-State at the end of the year. Or even how Illinois was on this role and I was like hey great wins but Zook is still your coach, meaning we would of course get a game like this past weekend.

That's not to claim I'm always right(though I do love bragging for years after about those), just that sometimes the record can look great, you can have a win over a team that sounds impressive, but from what I see on the field it doesn't add up. That's what I feel with South Florida now. Hopefully they can cream everyone left and pull off a huge bowl win and prove me wrong. I'd have zero problem with that. In fact it would be neat. I just don't see it happening.

And...ok, just kidding I'm really done now. Wow that's a long post.

Edit, ok I wasn't really done. About scheduling, I know it can be tough to get hard OOC games. I was just reading about how the Gator Bowl committee is trying to set up another game in Jacksonville for next year(this year it was FSU/Alabama) and FSU accepted the invite. So they tried to get West Virginia or Rutgers as the other team, but they both declined. Then they went after three top SEC schools(they weren't named) and all declined. So now they are down to Navy cause there's a base near there. Yippie, FSU vs Navy. Ohio State doesn't shy away from big games and I have tons of respect for what they do. The rest of the conference is ok, but like I said I just wish we'd see more of them winning national titles. It would help a lot.

(edited by wmatistic on 15.10.07 0620)
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.56
Why the Big 10 is viewed as weaker this season than last season: Last year, during the regular season, Michigan went into South Bend and whipped #2 Notre Dame and Ohio State went on the road to destroy #2 Texas. Quality non-conference wins for teams that faced each other as unbeatens in the last regular season game. This year, the best non-conference win by a Big 10 team is either Ohio State over a mediocre at best Washington, Michigan State beating a bad Pittsburgh, or everyone in the Big 10 beating a bad Notre Dame team. Pac 10 this year had Cal throttle Tennessee and Oregon destroy Michigan in the Big House. USC actually appeared to schedule tough with road games at Nebraska and Notre Dame, but, both teams ended up sucking. SEC doesn't have many quality wins this year, but they have the most impressive in LSU beating the living crap out of Virginia Tech and to a degree of Kentucky beating Louisville before everyone else started to beat Louisville. South Florida has the impressive non-conference for the Big East by winning at Auburn and the win against a bad North Carolina team looks a slight bit better after North Carolina knocks off Miami and takes a Top 10 South Carolina team to the last play. Big XII is probably relegated to Kansas State playing Auburn tough the week before South Florida beat them and Oklahoma destroying a poor Miami team. ACC can lay claim to Florida State beating a decent Alabama and Colorado and Miami beating a mediocre Texas A@M.
Ohio State scheduled properly for their team this year. Tressel had to see all the offense he lost, so put enough cupcakes in to go 9-3 and get a New Year's Day Bowl, or maybe even go 10-2 and get a BCS bowl in a rebuilding year. That Wisconsin, Michigan and Penn State all became vulnerable and the rest of the nation cannibalized itself just became an added benefit. However, if you replace the name Ohio State with Minnesota and give them the same schedule and record, they are down with Arizona State.

(edited by redsoxnation on 15.10.07 1142)
Battlezone
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.47
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Ohio State scheduled properly for their team this year. Tressel had to see all the offense he lost, so put enough cupcakes in to go 9-3 and get a New Year's Day Bowl, or maybe even go 10-2 and get a BCS bowl in a rebuilding year.


That sounds like a good theory. Except this year's schedule was done long before Ted Ginn and Troy Smith stepped onto campus. Right now, OSU has their schedule set through 2011. I've known about THIS year's schedule since at least 2002.




"It's the four pillars of the male heterosexual psyche. We like naked women, stockings, lesbians, and Sean Connery best as James Bond because that is what being a [man] is." -Jack Davenport, Coupling
wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by Battlezone
      Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Ohio State scheduled properly for their team this year. Tressel had to see all the offense he lost, so put enough cupcakes in to go 9-3 and get a New Year's Day Bowl, or maybe even go 10-2 and get a BCS bowl in a rebuilding year.


    That sounds like a good theory. Except this year's schedule was done long before Ted Ginn and Troy Smith stepped onto campus. Right now, OSU has their schedule set through 2011. I've known about THIS year's schedule since at least 2002.



Not that I doubt you on this season, because we all know teams set the schedule way in advance or at least try to, but I seriously doubt Ohio State will only play 11 games in 2010 and 2011 as their current schedule shows. That would be kinda stupid.

(edited by wmatistic on 15.10.07 0931)
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.12
Yeah, obviously the NCAA's expansion to a 12-game season means that some games are still being scheduled relatively last minute.
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- Ffej, Holcomb over Couch (2003)
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