Originally posted by Big BadIf a jobber has ever won a match, can he really be considered a TRUE jobber?
Sure. Jobber Vs. Jobber. And of course, jobbers to the stars often win against other jobbers and occasionally, against a midcarder. I mean, to a great extent, the Heat and Velocity shows are all about the jobbers doing their thing against each other. The Jobbers to the stars come in and beat them and occasionally, one of them is elevated or demoted (see Morley, Sean AKA Val Venis or Raven).
And in the old days, especially, Iron Mike Sharpe would beat the crap out of, say, Jim Powers, so that Barry Windham would look more "in Danger" when Iron Mike and his elbow pad of doom (and his yelling) would go up against him. Of course, Iron Mike beats Powers on "Superstars" so that Barry can whip Mike's butt on "USA" or maybe even "Saturday Night's Main Event" (in those more or less pre-PPV days of 1983-86).
And I thought one of the best things WWF did with a jobber was the elevation (for comedy's sake) of Barry Horowitz. That "push" of his was quite humorous. Gorilla was at his absolute finest for that run and the celebration that happened after he won (against who - does anyone remember? in the WWF) was played similarly to the Hulk Hogan celebration after he beat the Iron Shiek in '84. Champaigne, all the superstars around him. Vinnnie K going wild. It was CLASSIC. But the next week, Barry was jobbing....
. Gorilla was at his absolute finest for that run and the celebration that happened after he won (against who - does anyone remember? in the WWF) was played similarly to the Hulk Hogan celebration after he beat the Iron Shiek in '84. Champaigne, all the superstars around him. Vinnnie K going wild. It was CLASSIC. But the next week, Barry was jobbing....
I believe it was Bodydonna Skip, aka, Chris Candido.
"HHH, you should probably do the job here to put RVD over for the good of the company." "Vince, I'm just a caveman! I was out hunting when I fell in some ice and was unfrozen by your scientists. Your future world frightens and confuses me. You say these words like "job" and "put over" and "good of the company" but my primative mind can't grasp these concepts!"---Vince Mcmahon/Unfrozen Caveman Wrestler, Dr. Unlikely 17.9.02
Re: Barry Horowitz: I know they did an angle where he won a couple of matches in the WWF. That's mostly because that was all I ever saw of wrestling in his heyday. It was on Superstars, for the most part.
And bonus points for FurryHippie for reminding me of Reno Riggins.
Originally posted by Belgian BluestarNobody mentioned Playboy Buddy Rose yet??
Buddy Rose and Doug Somers (managed by Sherri Martel) were AWA Tag Team Champions for eight months in 1986/early '87, defeating Hall and Hennig, and holding off until the end the Midnight Rockers. A reign like that, much as the NWA Tag Title reign did for Don Kernodle, eliminates Buddy from being just a jobber.
(edited by redsoxnation on 3.12.02 1401) I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
But let's face facts. Even I can say with a straight face that by '87, AWA was nothing but an Indy promotion. Verne wasn't always making payroll. All the big dogs had gone to the WWF or NWA. So Buddy Rose, perhaps a jobber to the stars, got a push. Can you say Otto Wanz? I knew you could.
Originally posted by AWArulzBut let's face facts. Even I can say with a straight face that by '87, AWA was nothing but an Indy promotion. Verne wasn't always making payroll. All the big dogs had gone to the WWF or NWA. So Buddy Rose, perhaps a jobber to the stars, got a push. Can you say Otto Wanz? I knew you could.
By late '87 into '88, definately the AWA had turned into a glorified Indy promotion. But, when Rose and Somers won the belt, they still had the TV deal with ESPN, the Bockwinkle winning the title by forfeit fiasco hadn't happened yet (that might be the point where one could say the AWA died, Earthquake Ferris giving Bockwinkle the belt, hmm, to easy to go off on something else involving a belt being handed to someone), and they had some good young talent on the roster. The roster when Rose and Somers won the belts had Hall, Henning, Midnight Rockers, Hansen, the occassional Bruiser Brody, Slaughter (who had some mainstream draw), Jimmy Garvin, Larryland, and the Road Warriors and Freebirds had just left only months earlier. The irony of it all is that after the WWF/E, in terms of depths of rosters, the UWF might have been ahead of Crockett/NWA by May of '86.
edit: And how could I forget about Verne having Snuka come in at that time. If his head was right, and Verne had used him right instead of into the Col. Debeers feud, Snuka still was hot enough at that time that he could have helped the AWA significantly.
(edited by redsoxnation on 5.12.02 1011) I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
Yeah, but it was ESPN in 1987. You and me had it. I saw a lot of AWA at the time, but there was a local station that had a weekend show that was awesome. Vince and his syndication deal, and Bill Watts and his ruled TV. (I totally spaced UWF and you're right - I was only watching WWF and UWF at that time. I don't even think I watched the Dusty show at all. (always hated Dusty, kind of like the way I feel toward the Undertaker.)
UWF did rule then. Hot Stuff Eddie Gilbert!
But I can only remember their stars. Feebirds, Gilbery, Williams. Who jobbed for Bill? Can you remember any of his jobbers that went on to either star in other promotions or job famously in other ones?
It's amazing how people forget that the brand split was ultimately a negative after 2005 and how meaningless and self-defeating the idea of "Two World Champions" is. Two positives, though: - If you want a two-hour live WWE TV show, you got it....