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23.11.14 0729
The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw #2023 (Page 2)
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TheGreatWhiteBob
Tocino








Since: 5.3.11
From: England

Since last post: 67 days
Last activity: 67 days
#21 Posted on
Last night's RAW was the best I've seen in a long time (EASILY the best of the year so far, yo). Here be some random musings...

It's almost a shame Punk/Rock is set in stone for the Rumble as there's no way the build for Cena/Rock at WrestleMania is gonna touch the build for Rock/Punk.
Punk's pre-Rock promo was awesome. He's become the guy who still has the same problems with the product that the "smart" fans have but he's become so disenfranchised with the fanbase as a whole, that he now only airs those grievances to prove a point - that the fans are sheep and puppets.
Rock meanwhile, loves the people and will defend them against the bitter and delusional champion. And unlike Cena, while he still makes with the childish insults, he knows when to stop treating everything like a joke and that's when shit gets real. It's just an awesome good vs evil feud with appropriate shades of grey, involving two guys who know their characters well enough to make it work. And Punk's "your arms are just too short to box with God" line was pretty bad-ass.

Cena meanwhile, is incapable of taking anything seriously and every feud he's in is therefore infinitely less interesting for him being a part of it. Even when he's feuding with somebody as good as Dolph and the matches are uniformly great. It's hard to care about any of it. I fear it'll be the same with Rock/Cena

Also, is it just me or is Ryback becoming almost decent? The 6-man TLC match was amazing and his TLC match with Punk last night was really good too.

Cesaro's Neutralizer on Khali was an awesome visual.

The Team Hell No/Rhodes Scholars match was pretty good and yay for Doctor Shelby coming back next week!

Poor Kofi.

Orton as a face has been awful (though not as bad as Miz) so if this Sheamus thing leads to him going heel again, I'm all for it.

Did they really tease Wade Barrett vs Ricky Steamboat?



"That's some shameful shit..."
Spiraling_Shape
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41
I loved Punk's no-selling of Rocky's silly jokes, and even pre-empting ones to come, expecting the eventual zingers about his yellow shirt. Last year's "Kung Pao Trending Worldwide!" material really made Rock's humor look stale, but when he turns on Serious Rock Mode, that's what I want to see.


From Wiki:

The phrase first appeared in James Weldon Johnson's sermon "The Prodigal Son", which was published in his 1927 book of sermons, God's Trombones: Seven Negro Sermons in Verse.[2] The passage reads:

Young man-
Young man-
Your arms too short to box with God.
But Jesus spake in a parable, and he said:
A certain man had two sons,
Jesus didn't give this man a name,
But his is God Almighty.
And Jesus didn't call these sons by name,
But every young man,
Every where,
Is one of these two sons



"Ice cream bars! Ice cream bars!" - RAW crowd, Boston, 7/11/11
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    I hardly think Langston's finisher is "killed right out of the gate" considering it took a full 23 seconds between him hitting the move on Cena & the ref starting his 3 count, Cena kicked out at 2.9, and another 18 seconds passed before Cena was able to get to his feet.
This reminds me of something that bugged me during that match - why did Patton run out there and... start counting a fall, as opposed to immediately disqualifying Ziggler for outside interference?

(The answer, of course, is it wouldn't have been as great a "story," I guess, but I HATE it when it don't also make sense. Anticipating the inevitable response: "Buddy, you are watching the wrong show." I do kinda wonder if anyone even bothers to speak up with points like this during the writers' meeting anymore...but not for too long)



Whattaburger
Boerewors








Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

Since last post: 32 days
Last activity: 32 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.04
    Originally posted by TheGreatWhiteBob
    And Punk's "your arms are just too short to box with God" line was pretty bad-ass.


A rejoinder from The Rock paraphrasing King Leonidas' reply to Xerxes' threat would definitely have yielded a few utterances of "Oh, snap!"



This is all serious business.
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 147 days
Last activity: 147 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
I thought the first 2013 face off between Dwayne and Phillip was pretty awesome, but more than that it was stylistically interesting.

The Rock was such an attractive prospect to an older fan such as I because he represented the Attitude Era to John Cena's PG Cenation. Also, The Rock said some true-to-my-ears things in promos about Cena's shortcomings as current top star of WWE. Then The Rock surprisingly won in Miami and in doing so, pretty much validated the superiority of the Attitude Era.

Against Phillip, Dwayne is a different kind of contrast, because despite his status as a heel, Phillip is a great wrestler, a great talker, respected universally by fans who aren't under 12, and is in the midst of a historic WWE Title run that even the biggest Punk fan a year and a half ago could never have dreamed would have happened. Half the audience, give or take, wanted to see The Rock beat Cena. I don't know if the feeling is the same about Dwayne beating Phillip and ending this historic run. I know I'm not as hot for the idea of Phillip dropping the belt to Dwayne, though I do like the idea of Dwayne regaining the WWE Title ten years after he held it last.

This is playing much more as Dwayne is the hero of the people and Phillip is the heel who hates the people, necessarily so because it's not like Cena and Rock approaching the Once In A Lifetime match both as babyfaces (despite how the Miami crowd booed Cena, they were both faces). It plays less sophisticated in a way because it has to be; it's much harder for an older wrestling fan to root against the workhorse wrestler and deserving WWE Champ as opposed to handsome, muscular movie star part timer who made us laugh when we were teenagers and in college.

I forgot my point. I think my point was Phillip has all the attitude of the old Attitude Era so Dwayne doesn't represent that anymore, thus he's just a run of the mill babyface who happens to be a huge movie star and plans to hang out with us quite a bit until April. My head says to root for Phillip, but sentiment says I'll still root for Dwayne.

(edited by John Orquiola on 8.1.13 1229)


"Cody, I mustache you a question." - The Miz
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.30
    Originally posted by TheGreatWhiteBob
    Also, is it just me or is Ryback becoming almost decent? The 6-man TLC match was amazing and his TLC match with Punk last night was really good too.
SummerSlam 2010 Skip Sheffield was, at the very least, decent. This is the guy we were all bummed at losing right after that match.
    Originally posted by TheGreatWhiteBob
    Cesaro's Neutralizer on Khali was an awesome visual.
Yes! Forgot about that. I loved hearing the crowd actually react to the idea that he was going to try it and then hit it. Very cool, and instructional about letting guys do what they're good at. Cesaro has the best late match aresenal right now.

    Originally posted by CRZ
    This reminds me of something that bugged me during that match - why did Patton run out there and... start counting a fall, as opposed to immediately disqualifying Ziggler for outside interference?
That annoyed me in the moment, too. Right after he took out Cena, Langston bailed out of the ring and went over to the timekeeper position. When I saw him do it, I originally thought they pulled the first ref over there and he was trying to revive him (the usual booking for a knocked-out-ref interference scenario). But what he must have actually been doing was going and hiding behind the timekeeper rail. And I so love the idea of this big, weirdly built guy hunkering down behind a guardrail to hide from the next referee that I forgive whatever logical inconsistencies may have happened there.

    Originally posted by TheGreatWhiteBob
    Punk's pre-Rock promo was awesome. He's become the guy who still has the same problems with the product that the "smart" fans have but he's become so disenfranchised with the fanbase as a whole, that he now only airs those grievances to prove a point - that the fans are sheep and puppets. Rock meanwhile, loves the people and will defend them against the bitter and delusional champion.

Some more thoughts on the Punk/Rock/Cena dynamic: 2013 Punk is the spiritual successor to 1997-1998 Rock. The fans rejected Blue Chipper Rocky Maivia and The Rock as "The Great One" was born out of his spite at them rejecting them. As of last night, we now have a Punk who spent three quarters of a year trying to masquerade as the People's Champion, "selling out" just like The Rock did. It's something that Rock and Punk have in common that Rock and Cena did not. His fundemental motivation and what makes him different from The Rock is that (and we're talking the characters here, to be clear), whereas Vince embraced sellout Rock as his ideal Corporate Champion, the company refuses to ever let Punk be that guy. They offered that role to Austin, to Rock, to Cena, but never to Punk. That's why he hates them so much.

By contrast, the heart of Rock vs. Cena last year should have been that Cena never got it as bad from the crowd as Rocky "DIE ROCKY DIE!" Maivia did, and that realizing that people hated him and rebuilding himself as The Rock is what eventually made him evolve into The People's Champion instead of a guy calling himself that to make fun of them. Unfortunately, they forgot to make that point. But basically, Rock, Kane and Piper were all making the same case last year: "rising above hate" will only make the people hate Cena more. He needs to change to serve the people even if it means rejecting them first. Cena's refusal to change, in its own strange way, gives him common ground with Punk, who sits far on the other side and and says it's not worth changing yourself for those people (2011 Punk) and if they won't change for you, screw 'em (2012-13 Punk).

And, much like Big E. Langston vs. Chad Patton - no, nobody in the back is putting this kind of thought into any of. But that's wrestling for you, you only get out of it what you put into it.

    Originally posted by Whattaburger
    Still, I thought there were a lot of "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy"-opportunities missed by The Rock. I do think Punk is a great heel, primarily because he's a self-righteous hipster who's smart but nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is in or outside the ring.
This is part of why I like Punk the perfomer so much. He is the ideal professional wrestler for the modern era, because he means everything he says while simultaneously not meaning any of it. Of course he hates the fans. We're wrestling fans. We're awful. And of course he doesn't hate the fans: every wrestler who sticks around does it either because they're broke (Punk's not broke) or because they really, truly love it to pathalogical levels. Punk's the ultimate example of the "real personality turned up to 11" mold of the successful wrestler, with the added twist that was also a fan in the internet/dirtsheet/sports entertainment era. He's created a character that viably works as both a heel and a face specifically built to antagonize fans who like to use the terms "heel" and "face". If pro wrestling is on TV and social media in 2013, he's exactly the guy who should be at the center of it.
oudom
Summer sausage








Since: 12.1.12

Since last post: 4 days
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.00
What is up with letting Cole & The King laugh at stupid jokes? It's like watching a show with a laugh track on CBS.
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 147 days
Last activity: 147 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
Also, I feel like I'm mentally Eve's Paul Heyman crossed with Professor X managing her from my couch, because as a heel champion, she does everything I'm psychically instructing her to do. Especially last night, when Eve grabbed her belt and left when the going got tough.

Eve was exercising "The Champion's Prerogative" (a la Bobby Heenan and Jesse Ventura) to take a walk. She's the champ; she doesn't need this!

Also, The Shoelace Gambit was brilliant. Eve is an old school heel champion in a shiny, sexy 21st century package.



(edited by John Orquiola on 8.1.13 1257)


"Cody, I mustache you a question." - The Miz
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.37
I just assumed Patton wasn't watching the match, and someone ran up to him (being the first ref happened upon) all "OMG, get out there, the current ref is down!"

Eve is p. great. ::boot to Kaitlyn's face:: "It's not my fault!"



Tyler Durden
Landjager








Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 1 hour
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.61
Loved the show, except for The Rock's promo. Punk, on the other hand, delivered big time all night.

RAW has been pretty good as of late. Especially because of Punk, Ziggler, Cesaro, Team Hell No, Sandow, and Codys Mustache.



#WatchROH
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
Did Paul Heyman disappear during the last commercial break, or was he never there to start?

jon jones
Weisswurst








Since: 25.2.11

Since last post: 637 days
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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.20
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      I hardly think Langston's finisher is "killed right out of the gate" considering it took a full 23 seconds between him hitting the move on Cena & the ref starting his 3 count, Cena kicked out at 2.9, and another 18 seconds passed before Cena was able to get to his feet.
    This reminds me of something that bugged me during that match - why did Patton run out there and... start counting a fall, as opposed to immediately disqualifying Ziggler for outside interference?

    (The answer, of course, is it wouldn't have been as great a "story," I guess, but I HATE it when it don't also make sense. Anticipating the inevitable response: "Buddy, you are watching the wrong show." I do kinda wonder if anyone even bothers to speak up with points like this during the writers' meeting anymore...but not for too long)


He was running to the ring while it happened. You can't expect him to be watching the match on TV and run at the same time, right? The ref can only call what he sees.

At least it's not like other sports where they stop the game for 10 minutes to check if the ref is okay and find a replacement ref. It would be so much better if they just rolled the ref into the front row and half the players hacked the shit out of each other until another ref runs in from the back.
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
Reminded of something else...
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
      Originally posted by TheGreatWhiteBob
      Cesaro's Neutralizer on Khali was an awesome visual.
    Yes! Forgot about that. I loved hearing the crowd actually react to the idea that he was going to try it and then hit it. Very cool, and instructional about letting guys do what they're good at. Cesaro has the best late match aresenal right now.
Are we now at a point where if something happens on "Main Event," it didn't happen? That was a pretty quick demotion for their only "prime time network show."

(Becuase I'm certain I saw this exact spot on last week's Main Event - y'know, it may have been this entire match, come to think of it.)



miknight
Blutwurst








Since: 22.10.02
From: Oztraya

Since last post: 27 days
Last activity: 2 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.23
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely

    Evil Steamboat Jr. would wrestle as "Richard Blood".


Seconded, only because i want to see how many nanoseconds it takes for 'Dick Blood' jokes to be flying left and right.

Show was great fun. Cesaro has massive physical charisma and an impressive moveset. Originally i thought The Neutralizer didn't look like it had enough oomph to it due to it's internal physics making it look like he was mostly slamming them on their legs rather than head and body, much like AJ Styles' Styles Clash, but i've come around on it. Taking it as a massive Pedigree-style face-slam and seeing him plant Khali and Brodus like he has is now one of the best moves in wrestling.

Wish Dolph hadn't used his superkick against Cena, because that needs to be his ace in the hole. The move that he uses when all else fails, that trumps everything, and is somehow above his regular finisher due to it being used sparodically.

Loved everything about the ending, and i'm not a Rock fan for the most part. His usual belittling of an opponent, which is my major gripe with him, wasn't there, so Punk was definitely made out to be an equal rather than a speed bump. And as usual, he got me to laugh with some of his lines.

Punk was exceptional, in the way that this is the kind of talking segment you show to your friends when you want to introduce them to wrestling. Intensity personified.





Three oinkers wearing pants, a plate of hot air, a basket of grandma's breakfast and change a bull to a gill, got it.
Spiraling_Shape
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 20 hours
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41





"Ice cream bars! Ice cream bars!" - RAW crowd, Boston, 7/11/11
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It's the circumstance. I have no issue with him jumping back to SmackDown and winning the thing, but why not use a lemon to make lemonade? Why not make the Rumble match the place where the champion is decided?
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