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22.7.14 0230
The W - Movies & TV - The Walking Dead 3x4 - "Killer Within"
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 23 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35



That Tweet refers specifically to T-Dog. NOOOOOOO! Not T-Dog! Why did it have to be T-Dog?! Why couldn't it be Lori? Oh wait. We'll get to that. Back to T-Dog. WHYYYYY?! Damn you, Walking Dead writers? Why T-Dog?! He was finally getting dialogue. He was finally a major player in the group. They literally ripped his throat out, among other terrible things the Walkers did to him.

I guess it's now clear that it was the other black guy Rick chased into the yard in the season premiere who was watching Carol practice C-sections on Walker cadavers. Somehow he miraculously survived and hatched a plan to completely fuck the Ricktatorship and overrun the prison with Walkers. The shocking thing was how easy it was to upend the security of the prison the group established. Just a couple of cut locks, open gates, and animal corpses to bring a herd right into the prison to join the Walkers still roaming the other cell blocks.

Once again, the awesome Walker fighting prowess of the group was on display. Daryl was doing fantastic leaping and stabbing Walker heads while Glen was doing some kung fu anime decapitation moves. Everyone's a freakin' crack shot with headshots now. Even one legged Hershel can smash Walker heads with a swing of his crutch while limping up the stairs Zach Gowen-style.

The moral conundrum and debate about whether to let the remaining two prisoners into the group was pretty interesting. T-Dog wanted them in, even pointing out to Maggie that the farm took the group in. Daryl notes how he could have been one of those prisoners too under different circumstances. T-Dog: "So you agree with me?" Daryl: "Hell no." I loved Rick looking to Daryl for counsel and Daryl shaking his head. You heard the man. In the end, Big Black Prisoner earned his keep and killed little black prisoner instead of Rick. And as it happens, there's a spot open in the group for a new black guy. I guess it was his lucky day, even if it was everyone else's unlucky day.

By contrast, the happenings in Woodbury were pretty banal. Michonne wants to leave with Andrea and head to the coast, find a boat, find an island, and whatever. Andrea's not into it. Why would she be? They have a house, a bed, food, security, showers, all the comforts of a guarded compound. Plus she has the hots for Governor Phillip. Why leave? Michonne, the dark night detective, knows from examining the forensic evidence on the vehicles the Governor brought back from the National Guard that the story is full of (bullet) holes, but aren't they still better off in Woodbury than out in the world? I wouldn't leave either. Not when the Governor's pouring the good whisky.

Meanwhile, Andrea gave Merle the lowdown on where the farm is, not that the group would still be there after 8 months. Merle was trying to commiserate, that he and Andrea are the same because the group left them both behind. Circumstances were a little different for Merle than they were for Andrea, though.

Finally, I can't believe this show actually made me feel bad about Lori. The Walker raid on the prison was a horrible time for that baby to come, but the good news is it's not a Walker baby and the other good news is Lori is dead. But man, did I feel horrible for Rick wailing and collapsing at the end. Carl learned the most valuable lesson of all: killing your mother before she can turn into a Walker. But shit, damn, fuck, man. The group was absolutely butt fucked and devastated tonight.




So sad. But hey, some levity, the only bit of levity in the episode: Glen and Maggie sitting in a guard tower...






(edited by John Orquiola on 4.11.12 2031)


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BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
Too much went down to wait around for the John Orquiola thread.

T-Dog. My man. The guy I most identified with. Not really good at anything out of the ordinary other than burning bodies and grunt work. Almost always without a gun and hardly anything to do with the daily drama. I am really going to miss your steady reliable presence. The group really could have stayed in balance with two bald black guys. At least you got eaten and didn't have to be chopped down by Rick and the crew.

Lori. You were terrible at lots of things. You never really stood firm on much from week to week. I would never allow my child to play over at your house under your supervision. You were always the center of the controversy and those people wear out their welcome fast. Especially in a Zombie Apocalypse ... and then you died in a way where you didn't seem at all like a terrible person. I always envisioned your death (never happening, you would just be like the afterlife John Cena) being a joyous event for me, but it wasn't so good job with that. Andrea can now solidly hold the torch for most annoying cast member.

I don't know the little inmates name that survived the deathtrap by Rick and then reset a trap of his own, but if his sole plan was to retake the prison with his jail crew, well then that is just too bad. The guy seems to be a heck of a survivor and pretty smart he just had no end game.

I know everyone wanted Merle back really badly, but I think the guy is a bad actor and the Governor reminds me of a weird Seth MacFarlene acting like somebody else character.

Really good episode. I am looking forward to what is on tap.

EDIT: John Orquiola beat me to it. Edit 2: and in standard fashion I forgot the tag.



(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 4.11.12 2303)
Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
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#3 Posted on
(deleted by Whitebacon on 4.11.12 2031)
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 23 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
Second time something like this happened just this season. StaggerLee also missed the thread when it was up. What is it with Walking Dead fans and doubling up on threads?



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SchippeWreck
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Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.84
That was a million billion times more fucked up than

Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
how Lori died in the comic.




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Tenken347
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.17
T-Dog will be missed, but he went out like a true hero. That was one of the most inspiring things they've done on the show so far. Lorie, on the other hand, died as she lived - making questionable decisions. Labor isn't really known for being a quick process. I'm pretty sure she could have waited a couple hours instead of making Maggie open her up like a can of beans, and then having Carl put her down like Old Yeller. I really saw that whole scene as Lorie determined to commit suicide, and that she'd only waited this long because of the baby she was carrying.
Leroy
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Since: 7.2.02
From: Huntington, NY

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.20
It's been a while since an episode of television has caused me to maddeningly pace back and forth through my living room.

    Originally posted by Tenken347

    I'm pretty sure she could have waited a couple hours instead of making Maggie open her up like a can of beans, and then having Carl put her down like Old Yeller.



The urgency was not due to the labor itself, but due to the fact that there were clearly complications with the delivery. And they already established that she was afraid of stillborn-zombie baby clawing its way out of her. Nah - this was largely the first selfless act Lori has committed during the entire show, even if it was at the expense of Carl's already dwindling childhood.

    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco

    I know everyone wanted Merle back really badly, but I think the guy is a bad actor and the Governor reminds me of a weird Seth MacFarlene acting like somebody else character.


I adore Michael Rooker. I think this is the first real character he's played since Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer, and, for me, he's just knocking it out of the park. I think it's a little jarring that he went from crazy racist to leashed pit bull, but enough time has passed for that transition to be somewhat plausible. Plus, he still gets to kill people.

As for the Governor, it would make sense that he is acting one way, but is really someone else... since, that's pretty much what he's doing in the plot as well.

The quality of this season is just far and above the quality of last season. And they've set the tone - just because you made it through 3 seasons, doesn't mean you'll make it to season 4.


(edited by Leroy on 5.11.12 0904)
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.82
Merle was high on every drug known to man in season one. Given that he's obviously cleaned up as part of his membership in the Governor's inner circle, his new, more circumspect attitude makes perfect sense.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 3 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.42
That's the biggest death we could get this side of Rick. I don't read the comic so I didn't see it coming, and that scene of realization for Rick was heartbreaking. Carl has now put down Shane and his mom, and he's ripe for going dark side with The Governor.

Wow. Just wow.

Now we need to find out how that guy survived Rick's death sentence and where the hell Carol went. Hopefully Daryle finds her before Merle finds him. Because he might be also susceptible to be turned against the group. But I'm kinda glad Merle and T-Dog won't have a moment.

Again ... Carl. I just wanna buy that kid an ice cream.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
SchippeWreck
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Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 6 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.84
    Originally posted by Leroy
      Originally posted by Tenken347

      I'm pretty sure she could have waited a couple hours instead of making Maggie open her up like a can of beans, and then having Carl put her down like Old Yeller.



    The urgency was not due to the labor itself, but due to the fact that there were clearly complications with the delivery. And they already established that she was afraid of stillborn-zombie baby clawing its way out of her. Nah - this was largely the first selfless act Lori has committed during the entire show, even if it was at the expense of Carl's already dwindling childhood.

My wife brought up a medical inaccuracy with Lori's pregnancy. Generally (and I'm sure there are exceptions), when a woman has had a c-section, it is unsafe for her to ever deliver naturally again. If you had one with the first kid, the doctors will schedule a c-section for each subsequent birth.

Now, I don't know if the show has ever previously mentioned Lori's c-section before she flashed her scar, but if the character had a c-section with Carl, her OBGYN would have told her about needing a c-section for all future kids. She would have scheduled and planned for it with Herschel.

Now, none of that would have resulted in the devastating scene we got last night, so I can see why the writers swerved around medical accuracy.



"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.42
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck

    My wife brought up a medical inaccuracy with Lori's pregnancy. Generally (and I'm sure there are exceptions), when a woman has had a c-section, it is unsafe for her to ever deliver naturally again. If you had one with the first kid, the doctors will schedule a c-section for each subsequent birth.

    Now, I don't know if the show has ever previously mentioned Lori's c-section before she flashed her scar, but if the character had a c-section with Carl, her OBGYN would have told her about needing a c-section for all future kids. She would have scheduled and planned for it with Herschel.

    Now, none of that would have resulted in the devastating scene we got last night, so I can see why the writers swerved around medical accuracy.


Isn't this why Carol was practicing on zombies?

(edited by Matt Tracker on 5.11.12 0619)


"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
SchippeWreck
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Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 6 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.84
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by SchippeWreck

      My wife brought up a medical inaccuracy with Lori's pregnancy. Generally (and I'm sure there are exceptions), when a woman has had a c-section, it is unsafe for her to ever deliver naturally again. If you had one with the first kid, the doctors will schedule a c-section for each subsequent birth.

      Now, I don't know if the show has ever previously mentioned Lori's c-section before she flashed her scar, but if the character had a c-section with Carl, her OBGYN would have told her about needing a c-section for all future kids. She would have scheduled and planned for it with Herschel.

      Now, none of that would have resulted in the devastating scene we got last night, so I can see why the writers swerved around medical accuracy.


    Isn't this why Carol was practicing on zombies?

Every mention of c-sections to this point seemed like a "just in case" scenario, instead of a certainty.



"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.42
We had DolphDrew Jericho Tracker just two years ago, and The Lovely Mrs. Tracker was rolling her eyes at what we thought was the usual TV labor (five minutes long, clean as a whistle). We had complications with DDJ's birth, and when Maggie found the blood and told Lori to stop pushing, that hit home. That's when our hands stared crushing each other's.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 5 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.81
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck

    Every mention of c-sections to this point seemed like a "just in case" scenario, instead of a certainty.


They did, but I think they were planning on a natural birth if possible because a c-section in the world they are living in would have most likely been a death sentence.

Up until they found the prison, the group seemed to be running from house to house, dodging walkers (or biters, creepers, hummers, clawers, deaders, etcers) at every turn. A natural birth she could have survived, but a c-section, with that kind of blood loss and no real way to keep her resting until she healed would have killed her.
theremin
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Since: 31.1.12

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.64
You can have a C-section and then a natural birth, you just have to wait a while for the original site to heal. 2 years minimum. My friend just did it with 8 years between. Lori must have had...10? 11?
dMp
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Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.89
What an episode. Nobody's getting a break in this season.
Safe little prison? Forget about it.

Daryl sneaking up on the guy that just saved Rick was awesome.
About equally awesome was Daryl shaking his head when Rick asked his opinion (we now know who the real leader is) AND telling T-Dogg that he could've been like those prisoners and then still say 'hell no'

Aaaah T-Dog. We should've known you'd die. You had too many lines tonight. That wasn't going to end well.
(And dare I say..it'd be wack to have 2 black men in the group)

And then there's Lori. Who pretty much gave up on life.
I didn't expect the baby to live btw. I was already shouting "stab it in the head" when it started crying.
I wonder how they are going to continue now.

I'm not sure how much of a spoiler my next thought is, but I'll put it under cover anyways.

Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
I was wondering for a few weeks now if they'd have the guts to kill off Lori AND the baby like they did in the comics. Have her get shot in the stomach when the governor attacks.
This was perhaps a more noble but not really less gruesome ending for her. I cannot imagine the baby surviving for long though. But I wonder if they dare having the kid die.




Avatar Mud
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.42
How likely is it Carl couldn't do it? And somewhere in the prison is a gutted Lori zombie? It needed doing, and I hope he eliminated the threat now instead of facing it later.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.81
    Originally posted by dMp

    I'm not sure how much of a spoiler my next thought is, but I'll put it under cover anyways.

    Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
    I was wondering for a few weeks now if they'd have the guts to kill off Lori AND the baby like they did in the comics. Have her get shot in the stomach when the governor attacks.
    This was perhaps a more noble but not really less gruesome ending for her. I cannot imagine the baby surviving for long though. But I wonder if they dare having the kid die.





Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
I was thinking the same thing. Honestly, I actually hope the baby dies of somewhat natural causes, but then doesn't come back as a walker.

They're all infected, but maybe if the virus dies with this generation instead of carrying on forever, there might be a light at the end of the tunnel for the crew. As it stands now, Lori was right. There can never really be any point to going on. They're all just putting off a gruesome death by a few months or a couple years at most. What's the point?

Of course, I fully expect the baby to become a walker when it dies, because hope is not something this show likes to give our crew


Oh, and how terrible of a place is that prison to be? Rick's whole selling point on the prison was that they'd be safe, and could start to have a normal life again.

So far since entering the prison, we've lost T-Dog, Lori, almost her baby, and 10% of a Herschel.

Compared to zero casualties for the past 9 months of running from house to house, this prison has just been one giant terrible idea.


(edited by Tribal Prophet on 5.11.12 1506)
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    So far since entering the prison, we've lost T-Dog, Lori, almost her baby, and 10% of a Herschel.

    Compared to zero casualties for the past 9 months of running from house to house, this prison has just been one giant terrible idea.


There is something to be said for the cameras being off for those eight months. ;)



@CMPunk
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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.42
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    There is something to be said for the cameras being off for those eight months. ;)


Not that they should get all Lost about it, but a flashback to a Georgia winter for part of an episode would be nice. I'm curious about how they managed.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
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