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The W - Pro Wrestling - Night of Champions 2011 Results thread (Page 4)
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#61 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.90
As much I respect Heyman, I have to disagree. DirtyMike is dead on. Let him win the damn match. I may have brought this here or elsewhere, but I remember Austin fighting Rock for the IC title at a PPV. He came into the match with a truck then proceed to fight off the entire Nation of Domination. He even put D'low throw a window shield and gave him a stunner on top of the truck. The place went crazy for the entire match and Austin won. That is what they need to recreate with Punk. He has already had his Austin 3:16 and his Bret Hart match, its time for them to get behind him to bring the excitement. That is the fun, Punk is talking about when 100% of the crowd is totally behind someone. You can't say that about Cena who keeps getting the God push.

(edited by lotjx on 19.9.11 1803)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.





Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
shawnpatrick
Kishke








Since: 31.7.07
From: Leesville SC

Since last post: 802 days
Last activity: 684 days
#62 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.92
having ADR drop the belt is the right move. Miz and R-Truth are clearly more over then ADR, and if you keep ADR as champ, you have to keep Miz/R-Truth as mid-carders.

So ADR dropping the belt and going back to mid-card status makes since. Miz and R-Truth now can be elevated to the #1 heels again.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 hours
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#63 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.25
If Cena had been in Punk's spot and gone through everything he did before losing, people would roll their eyes at how overprotective they were of him. But it's CM Punk and it's Triple H so one guy must be oppressed and the other guy must be a saboteur, which just happens to be the exact psychology they're playing on with Punk's audience in this feud (Pedigree fear!). But I'm sure everybody is way too smart to fall for that. It's a two match program, Punk wins the next one, everybody involved is politically satisfied; if I'm totes wrong I'll genuflect. I'm not saying it's good -- WWE stinks right now and is badly undoing their foundation, yes. But last night's match was still normal and fine.

    Originally posted by shawnpatrick
    having ADR drop the belt is the right move. Miz and R-Truth are clearly more over then ADR, and if you keep ADR as champ, you have to keep Miz/R-Truth as mid-carders.


They've had a storyline for all of 2011 about Del Rio's destiny to win the the world title. Then they beat him in his first PPV defense against the perpetual champion. Time well spent. That's bad for the title, very bad for Del Rio, and even bad for Cena, who's running out of things to do beyond a once-in-a-lifetime returning legend or a midcarder getting the stars to align to make his own break.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 19.9.11 2007)
shawnpatrick
Kishke








Since: 31.7.07
From: Leesville SC

Since last post: 802 days
Last activity: 684 days
#64 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.92
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro

    They've had a storyline for all of 2011 about Del Rio's destiny to win the the world title. Then they beat him in his first PPV defense against the perpetual champion. Time well spent.


The WWE realized the Del Rio angle was a failure and killed it. Yes, they put a ton of effort into it but the WWE was smart enough to realize it's a bad move and like a bad stock, you dump it while you can.

I can't stand Cena being champ again, but from the financial view, Cena sells and Del Rio doesn't. It's not Del Rio showing up on shows outside the WWE either, if anyone, it was the Miz.

Sorry to disagree, but I think the WWE made the right move. But it's cool, if we all agreed on everything, wrestling is pretty boring.
graves9
Landjager








Since: 19.2.10
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 1 hour
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#65 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.66
    Originally posted by shawnpatrick
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro

      They've had a storyline for all of 2011 about Del Rio's destiny to win the the world title. Then they beat him in his first PPV defense against the perpetual champion. Time well spent.


    The WWE realized the Del Rio angle was a failure and killed it. Yes, they put a ton of effort into it but the WWE was smart enough to realize it's a bad move and like a bad stock, you dump it while you can.

    I can't stand Cena being champ again, but from the financial view, Cena sells and Del Rio doesn't. It's not Del Rio showing up on shows outside the WWE either, if anyone, it was the Miz.

    Sorry to disagree, but I think the WWE made the right move. But it's cool, if we all agreed on everything, wrestling is pretty boring.
Was ADR really given a chance to sell anything? He won the title Cena shit all over him, and then ADR dropped the title right back to Cena. He was given no chance at all. No, his title wasn't as big as a joke as Swagger's title reign or Rey's first title reign or even Christian's, but he went from a guy that won a few matches and looked strong to a guy that got shit over and booked to be a chickenshit heel last week.



@graves9
Super-Crazy
Loukanika








Since: 19.9.11

Since last post: 1016 days
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#66 Posted on
To the oldman. Check your facts buddy. The top two drawing Wrestlemania's were headlined by, guess who, John Cena.
Hobbes
Cotechino








Since: 10.12.01
From: Kelowna

Since last post: 40 min.
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#67 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.77
    Originally posted by shawnpatrick
    The WWE realized the Del Rio angle was a failure and killed it. Yes, they put a ton of effort into it but the WWE was smart enough to realize it's a bad move and like a bad stock, you dump it while you can.


Yes, that is far more likely than WWE doing a hot shot title change out of panic to try and pop a TV rating. 2011 WWE is all about carefully considered shrewd moves and not short term panic booking.


    I can't stand Cena being champ again, but from the financial view, Cena sells and Del Rio doesn't.


Except that your top drawing card doesn't always need to be champ to draw, and in fact sometimes in wrestling there is more money in the chase than being the champion. As Justin mentioned, Cena as champion has no fresh match ups other than Rock.


    It's not Del Rio showing up on shows outside the WWE either, if anyone, it was the Miz.


And look at the wonders it's done for his career! PS: Miz might get to be on late night talk shows, but he doesn't represent a large and growing cultural market, unless you think whites are planning to finally fence off the US good.
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#68 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.63
Del Rio did a lot of press when he was stuck in Mexico renewing his visa or whatever.



thecubsfan.com - luchablog
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 hours
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#69 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.25
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    if Punk doesn't get his win back in a HIAC match set up to keep interference out, I will leave the board foreverrrr.


goodbye my friends
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 1 hour
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#70 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      if Punk doesn't get his win back in a HIAC match set up to keep interference out, I will leave the board foreverrrr.


    goodbye my friends


This is Pro Wrestling (the message board). This stipulation will never stick.




"I brought SCIENCE!"
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 days
#71 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73
    Originally posted by s-c
    To the oldman. Check your facts buddy. The top two drawing Wrestlemania's were headlined by, guess who, John Cena.

Wow. Love when people quote stuff and provide no context. First of all, the number of homes with PPV access during the heyday of Hulkamania versus whenever Cena headlined those 'Manias was much smaller. I'd bet any money the percentage of people with PPV access during that era who bought WWF shows destroys any number Cena has ever done. My family, and others I know, bought PPV boxes just so we could watch wrestling events when we were kids. Also, you haven't adjusted for inflation. Don't be ridiculous.

Impressions from the show. Cena beating Del Rio was absurd, but I don't think it amounts to the worst WWE booking decision in history. Just in the last couple months. But this is how they build Champions now. Winning, losing quickly, and then slowly rebuilding back to that point. You must send ratings through the roof instantly or they give up on you and shunt you back to the midcard. It's fucking horrible, but it's their policy now.

As heatless as Rhodes V. Dibiase was, Cody did the ball kick in the ropes spot from his mentor Hardcore Holly, and the fall down and punch from lying position spot of his brother. Other than that, yeah. Dibiase is lucky his dad is who is, or he'd have been fired ages ago. Far more charismatic people have been let go.

KK going over is not the first jobbing people out in their hometown move. That's another one of their booking policies that's been in place for a good few years now. Moronic, but unsurprising. I'm sure Beth will win eventually. In a different town. Where it will get a fraction of the reaction it would have gotten if they done it in Buffalo. Cuz that's good television.

Henry going over worked. Going in I thought he'd lose, but once they started to say he "can't win the big one" during the entrances and the match itself it was clear how it had to end. The one benefit of Orton never losing clean is that when he does, it means something. Maybe Cena could try that sometime this century.

Henry and Orton worked for all the reasons Punk/HHH didn't. Mark/Randy was simple and straightforward, with clearly defined roles. Monster heel with a chip on his shoulder v.s. perennial champion. It's about the TITLE. It works in UFC. It works in boxing. Phil/Paul was convoluted and pointless, with people fighting over executive positions, fake car crashes, microphones being cut off, jokes about panties, demoted fathers-in-law, bodybuilder fetishes, and text messages, with all kinds of unnecessary characters being shoehorned in by the second, constantly diluting the attention of the fans. It was a much better match in and of itself than Henry/Orton, but it was a lot worse at accomplishing its goal. It really put into a nutshell why sports-entertainment is so shitty and pro wrestling is much better.



Edit: If I'd know CRZ was gonna quote me, I'd have proofread better. Changed "by second" to "by the second" and "a lot worst" to a "a lot worse". D'oh.

(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 20.9.11 1140)

Quiet, Or Papa Spank!
CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#72 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39

    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Henry and Orton worked for all the reasons Punk/HHH didn't. Mark/Randy was simple and straightforward, with clearly defined roles. Monster heel with a chip on his shoulder v.s. perennial champion. It's about the TITLE. It works in UFC. It works in boxing. Phil/Paul was convoluted and pointless, with people fighting over executive positions, fake car crashes, microphones being cut off, jokes about panties, demoted fathers-in-law, bodybuilder fetishes, and text messages, with all kinds of unnecessary characters being shoehorned in by second, constantly diluting the attention of the fans. It was a much better match in and of itself than the Henry/Orton, but it was a lot worst at accomplishing its goal. It really put into a nutshell why sports-entertainment is so shitty and pro wrestling is much better.


I don't agree with a lot of what HMD says but in case you got a "too long; didn't read" vibe from that reply up there I have quoted this paragraph for truth for your convenience. I hope you scanned it.



JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 hours
Last activity: 7 sec.
#73 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.25
    Originally posted by It's False
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
        Originally posted by JustinShapiro
        if Punk doesn't get his win back in a HIAC match set up to keep interference out, I will leave the board foreverrrr.


      goodbye my friends


    This is Pro Wrestling (the message board). This stipulation will never stick.


You know, I thought it might be funny to not post for as long as Miz and Truth were fired. But I figured that's not enough of a repudiation for being just that steadfastly wrong.

Correction! It was silly of me to interpret forethought in the booking of a WWE finish, and the idea that I'd vouch for their longterm logic was idiotic and somewhat tragic.

With no second match (and maybe they'll do one at Vengeance, although that's probably Nash's match with one of them) it was dumb for Triple H to win. Punk was extremely protected in the match layout, but the portrayal the next night to the majority of people who didn't see it was just that he'd lost and been humbled. He's not getting "Pedigreed back to the midcard" or anything like that, but it still reeks of vintage "I should beat him first so it means more when I put him over" and the second part never comes. Nostalgia pang.

It's also hilarious that for the first time in three years WWE actually properly built a program to make sense to go into Hell in a Cell, and then it turns out that isn't their match for HIAC.

In conclusion and in summary, me wrong, dumb.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#74 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
It takes a big person to admit they are wrong, I am not one of those losers, but good for you. Honestly, the site would be boring without you and a sane voice is always good for the internet.

(edited by lotjx on 21.9.11 1417)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.





Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
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