I think that Punk saved HHH because when he saw Nash about to Jackknife HHH he realized that The Game may have been telling the truth all along. Punk has been very anti-screw job and maybe he seen what was going down and wasn't about to let it happen. In the end it cost him the match though. I see this leading to some sort of HHH/Punk alliance against the Nash/Ace/Vince/Awesome Truth conglomerate.
(edited by Derrick on 19.9.11 1004) "I'm the only winner on this team. The rest of 'em, they're losers. Either by choice, or by birth." - Jack Parkman (Major League 2)
Originally posted by BigDaddyLocoThe Good: Mark Henry and Mark Henry's victory promo. "This is my moment and I'm not sharing it with none of you!"
Everything else:
I'm really surprised Cena went over here
The best part of the PPV was Henry's speech.
I can't say that I am surprised Cena went over because it's Cena. However, it really doesn't make sense for ADR to lose the belt after the WWE teased with ADR being champion for quite some time and he loses it a month after winning it. B.S. booking right there.
Poorly booked PPV overall with the tag team bout being the best match overall (I don't know when the last time that has happened). I never thought I would be satisfied to have Mark Henry be world champion and hopefully they can keep the title on Henry for awhile instead of making the title change hands seemingly every other week. Hopefully Hell in a Cell will be better and it has to be considering they should be able to go up from NOC.
The ADR reign was pointless. The MITB rub only works if someone gets at least one successful defense out of it, otherwise it looks like a fluke and the wrestler is no better off than before winning the briefcase.
Originally posted by shawnpatrickYou paid 15 bucks to watch this at the bowling alley? You do realize that it's illegal for the bowling to do that right?
Not at all; most businesses have to pay a different PPV rate based off of how many seats they have, at least this is the case for UFC events. It is true that it is illegal to charge customers in order to watch, but instituting a cover charge at any time is perfectly legal, along with food and drink minimums per customer.
So long as he was able to buy food, drink, and bowl, the $15 went towards his ability to do so, not watching a PPV.
(edited by Lexus on 19.9.11 1134) "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you." -Me.
I think one of the overlooked problems with the way the last couple months have gone is while the SD title has been booked so well, the Raw title has been severely devalued since Money in the Bank.
Going into MitB Vince was paranoid about Punk leaving with his title. He was threatening his cash cow John Cena with termination if he couldn't keep the title safely on Raw. When Punk won it was as though a horrible tragedy had befallen Vince and his company.
Then they go right into booking a title tournament. Which would have been fine. Interim champions are not a bad thing as UFC has shown us. We get an excellent champion in Rey Mysterio.
Who then promptly has to lose right back to John Cena. Okay, maybe not the best idea, but it sets up the natural feud with Punk whenever he comes back from globe trotting, hanging out with physically challenged local wrestlers, and taking the belt to Wrigley Field.
Which he does the same night Cena wins his title. After being gone a whopping one week. So we get the big unification bout for a title that was gone as long as if Punk missed a flight to Raw one week.
Then Kevin Nash appears and causes Punk to lose to Alberto Del Rio. Okay, that's his destiny and all that. Plus he needs to be champ for Mexico since they've never been able to draw in Mexico without a Mexican world champion or something like that.
Then lots of yelling and fighting happens and suddenly HHH and Kevin Nash and Johnny Ace and Punk are on tv a lot talking about text messages and future endeavors and super secret security footage, usually in the first and last segments of the show.
In the middle of the show Del Rio is sometimes there talking about his title. I think he beat John Morrison once, a man for whom the WWE has some small plans. John Cena talked about jorts and horsepower and Bret Hart appeared and essentially Del Rio has to face Cena because John Cena must always be fighting for the Raw title due to the Treaty of Ghent or something like that.
Finally at NoC in the second from the top match John Cena wins clean as ever so he has his title back. I assume Del Rio might win at HiaC for that incredibly important, make all our plans for months around it, gotta have a local champ tour of Mexico. And then he'll lose it back to Cena because John Cena is the champ and he is here.
But the real main event, the focus of the promotion's attention is over in the Punk/HHH/Funkhauser/Miz/Truth/Nash/Stephanie situation. Where the only title on the line is that of COO, an all-powerful position except for if the shadowy Board of Directors overrules you, or if John Laurinatis makes a match when you're not around. And because Punk is mean (somehow a face but a mean mean person who says mean mean things).
And oh yeah, your next huge PPV is being headlined with the premise of Cena and the Rock teaming together, regardless of title situation.
In retrospect, perhaps Vince was just way too concerned with the fate of the WWE Championship at Money in the Bank. Turns out no one but him and John Cena really care about it to begin with.
(edited by spf on 19.9.11 1445) 2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
Punk losing isn't the issue and shouldn't be the issue. Punk is main eventing every show that matters.
The issue is that one great promo led us to a really intriguing story that gave us one electrifying match and ever since then we have been chasing that high. Now that the fire is burning out this whole thing is still a big angle, but it is just another wrestling angle... Which it always was.
Originally posted by JustinShapiroMeltzer says Del Rio losing the title was explained to him by someone in the company as ratings panic because of the feeling that world title changes on a PPV bump the Raw rating the next night. :-/
Called it. WWE-think strikes again! Way to go guys!
Michigan against the SEC: 20-6-1 (7-4 in bowl games)
Originally posted by BigDaddyLocoNow that the fire is burning out this whole thing is still a big angle, but it is just another wrestling angle... Which it always was.
"Even through the darkest day, this fire burns, always..."
(edited by Spiraling_Shape on 19.9.11 0936) "Ice cream bars! Ice cream bars!" - RAW crowd, Boston, 7/11/11
Originally posted by JustinShapiroMeltzer says Del Rio losing the title was explained to him by someone in the company as ratings panic because of the feeling that world title changes on a PPV bump the Raw rating the next night. :-/
Called it. WWE-think strikes again! Way to go guys!
By this logic I would not expect a long run for Henry.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
I'm not going to stump for WWE booking in the least because I think they're totally lost, HHH/Punk program included. But the HHH/Punk finish was about the most unclean, protected finish in the history of finish cleanliness, and if Punk doesn't get his win back in a HIAC match set up to keep interference out, I will leave the board foreverrrr. I mean, I won't, but the defining concept of WWE booking these days is not seditious political burial, it's parity.
Why do I get the feeling that the creative meetings lately are comprised of people acting in constant state of panic, terrified of suggesting the wrong thing so they don't get fired on the spot?
ps. I mean, ten times more-so than they normally are.
I got tickets late so I was behind some of the set (and therefore couldn't see the wrestlers until they were halfway down the aisle). For those who don't know: The fireworks themselves don't actually make noise, like for the beginning of the show and Kofi's entrance; behind the set they shot off loud booms (don't know the scientific term for them) to make the noise you hear with the fireworks. And we sat right near them. Ouch.
Dark match was D.Bryan beating Slater in five minutes. Good pop for Bryan's win. Tag opener was solid and crowd seemed to be into it. Finish hurt the match a little but as others said, it set things up for later.
It was clear some fans didn't see Smackdown as they still booed DiBiase (or they just dislike him), though more fans than I expected cheered him. The fans sat on their hands during this one, mostly because the feud/storyline has sucked. Good pop for DiBiase ripping off the mask, though.
Proof that wrestling fans will chant anything: Christian's request for one more match. Thankfully no "what" chants, but Christian's cadence would've snuffed'em out anyway. The four-way was fine and I was shocked at the pop Riley's near-fall got. Ziggler selling the Swagger big boot looked EXACTLY like how Mr. Perfect would've sold it.
They did Henry vs. Orton the right way, and the finishing sequence was cool, as was the post-match interview. Some fans cheering Henry, too. Match was slow and they didn't try to test to see if Henry could keep up with Orton, but I guess that wasn't the story they wanted to tell either. Beth vs. Kelly was fun for the crowd reactions; for some reason Kelly held the title over her head with one arm during Beth's entire entrance. The booking of DoD boggles my mind.
Speaking of booking that boggles the mind, Cena beat ADR. I thought the match was okay, but nowhere near what we've come to expect from title matches. The two just don't seem to mesh well. The Let's Go Cena/Cena sucks chants were the loudest heat the entire show. I was distracted by a fight in my section during Hunter vs. Punk so couldn't really concentrate on what was going on during the body of the match, but saw all the interference. Didn't get Truth and Miz attacking Punk and Truth pulling him out of the ring on a pin attempt, since they've been all about wanting Hunter out as COO. Maybe the announcers explained it.
@gregmparks - live Tweeting of Raw and Impact, wrestling thoughts and other slices of life.
Originally posted by odessastepsAccording to someone on the DVDVR board who was at the show, someone brought a Benoit sign to the PPV.
It was very visible during the HHH/Punk match. I forget what it said - something like "Wish Benoit was here" - and I mean, I do too, since it would mean that none of that stuff ever happened. I believe the guy with the sign got thrown out, because after the sign got on TV a few times, you could hear a faint "na na hey hey goodbye" chant and it looked like security was taking someone away, and we never saw the sign again.
Originally posted by Amos CochranI love that CM Punk, guy who has done the sum total of three clean jobs this year, is now apparently stuck with a "loser" label. He's been put over stronger than anyone on Raw since June. They pretty much had to kill him last night to put him down for a three-count. He is not being sabotaged or buried or any other silly term.
No, not buried, but he's lost momentum for sure. He is not nearly as compelling as he was only a few months ago.
Originally posted by Tribal ProphetWhy do I get the feeling that the creative meetings lately are comprised of people acting in constant state of panic, terrified of suggesting the wrong thing so they don't get fired on the spot?
ps. I mean, ten times more-so than they normally are.
There's (almost) nothing in the main event that isn't consistent with the story they've been trying to tell since HHH 'replaced' Vince.
H has been booked as a face all along, a guy trying to do the best in a situation he was tossed into. If anything, his character's a bit clueless about the backstage maneuvering, but Nash lied to him, Johnny Ace has lied to him, and Punk is (mistakenly) blaming him for being behind everything - not to mention calling him ten different kinds of p-ssy-whipped. His flaw is that he can't figure out that someone in the corporate office is working against him.
Punk has been trying to show that he's the best wrestler in the world, and convince the powers-that-be that they're wrong that a guy like him can't be on top of the company. (Also, too - fun and ice cream bars.) His flaw is that he's wrongfully persecuting HHH for being the guy behind whoever is holding him back.
You can argue it's the wrong story to tell to get Punk to the top level, but I don't think you can say they haven't been telling the story this way so far. (Yes, there's always the chance of a "Nash sent Nash the text message" Russonian swerve down the line.)
As others have pointed out, Punk was heavily protected in taking the loss. I think they had a pretty good brawl, and the 'skinny-fat kid' kept up with the 'King of Kings' just fine for credibility purposes - before the shenanigans started. The only sour note was Awesome Truth getting booked to attack H and Punk, where before they had said they were solidly in favor of getting HHH ousted as COO. But they needed to book that, because they needed Nash to attack both men as well - to set up HHH and CM Punk, uneasy allies against Johnny Ace and whomever is behind him. (This alliance may not come together for awhile, but it sure looks like the direction they've been going all along.)
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In the tag match, I'm not sure you needed Bourne to heel himself a fake tag just to play up the conspiracy angle.
Again, ugh with the constant plugola between matches.
Christian gets "one more match" - at Hell in the Cell? But Henry's win sort of invalidates the motive behind that idea. I can't think of one feud that's legitimately progressed to the HitC stage other than Christian/Orton. But they need one or two of them in 13 days, don't they?
There's nothing as sure a sure thing as a champion winning a Fatal-four Way. But they did have a nice spot where Ziggler had the sleeper while Swagger had an ankle lock - I thought we might actually get co-champions for a moment there.
Mark Henry took 13 minutes to make 15 years pay off. Sometimes the simplest stories are the easiest to tell. I'm happy for the guy, since he's spent so long to get a championship run - and he's run well with the monster heel gimmick. Yokozuna wasn't going to give you **** matches either, but it works.
I think I don't like Kelly because her vapid smile reminds me of Cena's way of giving that "I don't sweat any challenger" vibe. Since nothing else is working, maybe Beth can challenge KK to a Cell match?
Cutting the legs out from under Del Rio like this on his first title run should be felony career theft. Not only does Cena make ADR tap, he becomes the first to escape the cross-armbar. Though the result helps me understand why SuperCena was back to calling ADR an upper class guy with money and nice stuff, and he didn't say "I stole your rental car".
Also, too - "John Cena funny". This.
Maybe having half the audience not especially liking your #1 guy may have something to do with buy rates dropping over the last couple of years? Ratings dropping over the last year? You can't explain it all away as 'the bad economy'. Even Hogan had to turn eventually because his good-guy gimmick got over-stale. Arguably, Cena's been the face of the company for six straight years now. Don't you have to go all the way back to Hogan's WWF run at the dawn of the WrestleMania era for someone to be on top this long??
Cole losing his voice made the main event better, Lawler and Booker using their years of experience to explain the psychology worked for me. And while I laughed at a ref pulling "Iblockyourpunchyoudon'tblockmine" on a wrestler, it should happen to someone like Santino or Zach Ryder, not someone you're pushing like Miz.
I note that the Raw GM podium was still there, maybe tonight's the night when Punk and H are jawing in the ring, and the GM decides to chime in?
I live in Toronto and right now, our expecations are so low for our sports teams (especially the Leafs) that if they make the playoffs, that's cause for a celebation. That's honestly how I feel that some WWE fans are right now. I mean, we're at a point where we're saying things like "Well, Punk was protected and it took 3 pedigrees and yadda yadda". I know this sounds crazy, but what would also make him look strong is actually WINNING the match. The fact that people are also saying that "Well, Hunter couldn't lose, as he would lose the COO thing" is ridiculous too. First off, don't have that dump stip. In storyline terms, Hunter had enough to want to kick his ass. Secondly, it's not like WWE could have reneged on it or pulled something out of their ass to get him back as COO. I mean, Punk 2 months ago called out Cena on the whole "fired" thing. I'm pretty sure they could have made a scenario where HHH lost and kept his 'position'.
As a fan, I'm just tired of dumbing down my expecations. When BILL SIMMONS is calling out HHH for being a part of the CM Punk storylines, you know there's some sort of problem. Even the Mark Henry thing, as well as that was booked, is still about a guy who's been around for 15 yrs, largely broken down and isn't that good of a wrestler, and we're acting like it's a 'new face'. And if they are really worried about ratings, somehow, I don't see Mark Henry pulling them out of this funk (although I do hope they let him keep the title until WM for Daniel Bryan).
Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"
Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"
Kelly: "No, he really said that. Did they tell you the part about you sitting in the stands, looking all skeptical?"
Austin: "AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah... oh man that was too much."
Originally posted by JustinShapiroI'm not going to stump for WWE booking in the least because I think they're totally lost, HHH/Punk program included. But the HHH/Punk finish was about the most unclean, protected finish in the history of finish cleanliness, and if Punk doesn't get his win back in a HIAC match set up to keep interference out, I will leave the board foreverrrr. I mean, I won't, but the defining concept of WWE booking these days is not seditious political burial, it's parity.
AIR BOOM
Taker/Yokozuna Rumble '94 retired that title by a mile.
Originally posted by Paul HeymanI had to flip from watching Inglourious Basterds to see HHH vs CM Punk. Fill in your own punch line for that one, folks! I thought they (and all the others involved) put on one helluva show. It took 3 Pedigrees and a Jack Knife to beat Punk. I know a lot of people are pissed Punk got pinned, but if you’re going to get beat, isn’t that the way to do it?
Thread ahead: RAW Supershow #956 9/19/11 Next thread: Are They Really Going to Blow off Rock/Cena at Survivor Series? Previous thread: Matt Hardy Arrested (again)
Okay, here's what I was thinking. Obviously, Steve Williams has some major personal problems he must seek help for. And maybe, just maybe, he might be suited for a WWE return once he's cleaned everything up with his personal life.
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