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The W - Basketball - LeBron James to the Miami Heat (Page 5)
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#81 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.59
MJ calls out Lebron on creating the DLC

http://sports.espn.go.com/​nba/​news/​story?​id=5391478

Isn't this the same Jordan who cried he had no help against the Pistons when they were knocking the Bulls out of the playoffs? The same Jordan who wanted Rodman after Orlando knocked him off his gigantic number 45 return? I guess Barkley said he won't have joined the Bulls if asked, ok Chuck kept believing that. He would have hitchhiked to Chicago if need be.

(edited by lotjx on 19.7.10 0740)
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#82 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.05
    Originally posted by lotjx
    MJ calls out Lebron on creating the DLC

    http://sports.espn.go.com/​​nba/​​news/​​story?​​id=5391478

    Isn't this the same Jordan who cried he had no help against the Pistons when they were knocking the Bulls out of the playoffs? The same Jordan who wanted Rodman after Orlando knocked him off his gigantic number 45 return? I guess Barkley said he won't have joined the Bulls if asked, ok Chuck kept believing that. He would have hitchhiked to Chicago if need be.

    (edited by lotjx on 19.7.10 0740)


Yep, Dennis Rodman is equal to Lebron James and Dwayne Wade.



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lotjx
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#83 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.58
Rodman is equal to Bosh. MJ is Lebron and Pippen is a lesser Wade.
redsoxnation
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#84 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Rodman is equal to Bosh. MJ is Lebron and Pippen is a lesser Wade.







Rodman couldn't score 20 in a month at times.
thecubsfan
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#85 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Rodman could play defense.



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#86 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.05
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Rodman is equal to Bosh. MJ is Lebron and Pippen is a lesser Wade.


So Rodman joining MJ (which was Rodman's choice..) is equivalent to Lebron joining Bosh. I'm with you there. He also joined Dwayne Wade. When did Michael Jordan sign with the Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, or Jazz (who had Stockton and Malone, which is kind of like joining Wade and Bosh)? He just waited and won 6 titles in 8 years with the team that he kept bitching about (including beating all the aforementioned teams).

(edited by Psycho Penguin on 20.7.10 1742)


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TheBucsFan
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#87 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.45
I think whether or not Pippen was better than Wade is irrelevant to the argument. Pippen started his career with the Bulls (sure, he was drafted by Seattle, but the Bulls traded for him shortly thereafter) and surely Jordan played a major role in Pippen becoming the player he did, just like Pippen played a major role in Jordan's career. There was no more of a guarantee that Pippen would become a great player than there is for any other top-five draft pick, and Pippen was on the team for like four years before they won their first title.

For this to be a worthwhile comparison, one or the other would have had to leave one established situation because they were convinced they couldn't win there, so they could join the other and try to tilt the odds in their favor. I don't necessarily think it's bad that James did things the way he did, but I think it would have been more impressive to do what Jordan did - stick to a situation and make it work. Jordan made the Bulls champions. Not Pippen. Not Rodman. Not Kukoc. Not Kerr. Michael Jordan. And he did it through sheer will power. Of course he had some great players around him - what championship team hasn't had multiple great players? It's the way James found himself on a team with multiple great players that is in question - to me, it looks like he ran away from a challenge.

Presumably, the Cavs will have draft picks in the future, and they also could have made a similar trade to the Pippen deal to try and build their own dynasty around LeBron James. Either James didn't give them time, or James had seen enough to be convinced that wasn't going to happen. I don't know what conversations LeBron James was a part of in this regard, so I can't really say which is the case.

EDIT: Concerning Bosh and Rodman, I haven't really seen much of Bosh. I don't remember the last time I saw a Raptors game on TV. But Rodman was a great player. But that still works against LeBron - why did a great player like Rodman go to Chicago? I'd imagine the chance to play with Jordan was at least part of it. Why did James go to Miami? To play with Wade. Who is No. 1 and who is No. 2 here?

(edited by TheBucsFan on 20.7.10 1830)


redsoxnation
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#88 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
    Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
      Originally posted by lotjx
      Rodman is equal to Bosh. MJ is Lebron and Pippen is a lesser Wade.


    So Rodman joining MJ (which was Rodman's choice..) is equivalent to Lebron joining Bosh. I'm with you there. He also joined Dwayne Wade. When did Michael Jordan sign with the Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, or Jazz (who had Stockton and Malone, which is kind of like joining Wade and Bosh)? He just waited and won 6 titles in 8 years with the team that he kept bitching about (including beating all the aforementioned teams).

    (edited by Psycho Penguin on 20.7.10 1742)







Jordan never won a playoff series against the Celtics.
TheOldMan
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Since: 13.2.03
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#89 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Why did James go to Miami? To play with Wade. Who is No. 1 and who is No. 2 here?


That's it. LeBron isn't MJ, he's Pippen. I'll give him credit in so far as James said that the whole process was about winning - helping form SuperTeam 2010 gives him a great chance to win a few championships. (And it appears they left just enough money on the table to fill out a roster.) Of course now the expectations are so high that anything less than 5 rings may be a disappointment.

But in engineering this deal, "King" James abdicated any claim on best player ever. And that's okay, the challenge was largely media hype from since he was in high school, maybe James always wanted to be the ultimate complimentary player. I do seem to remember that on the Olympic team (where this plan was hatched), it was Wade taking the big shots in clutch time.

And after the dust settles, I'm thinking there's one more issue to consider - I wonder what Stern and the owners think of all this. If this 'works', might the other NBA stars feel they also need to unite on other SuperTeams to compete with the Heat? And if superstars start turning down max deals to join attractive teams.. is there a chance that you end up with four SuperTeams, and 26 versions of the Washington Generals?



StingArmy
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#90 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
I heard this on ESPN's SportsNation on Monday for the first time and I'm surprised that the thought hadn't already crossed my mind.

LeBron isn't going to be the next MJ, but at this point it's obvious that's not his goal anyway. Some say he's more likely to be the best sidekick of all time, like some sort of MegaPippen. But perhaps there's an even better comparison: Oscar Robertson. LeBron is going to be the first player of this generation to average a triple double over the course of an entire season.

Think about it. Playing with a mostly unspectacular roster last season, he averaged about 30 points, 7 rebounds, and 9 assists per game. He led the team in points, assists, and steals and was second in rebounds and blocks. He was only a fractional block and a fractional rebound from being the team leader in all five categories. He basically had to do everything himself.

What's he going to do when he has two perennial all stars in the starting lineup with him and a handful of handpicked specialists filling out the roster? His scoring average will probably drop into the low 20s, but that could very easily translate into another 5-10 rebounds and 5-10 assists per game. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him go 23, 12, and 15 next season.

- StingArmy
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#91 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by StingArmy
    I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him go 23, 12, and 15 next season.

    - StingArmy

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TheBucsFan
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#92 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.45
    Originally posted by StingArmy
    What's he going to do when he has two perennial all stars in the starting lineup with him and a handful of handpicked specialists filling out the roster?


He's going to get fewer rebounds and assists because he has better teammates competing for the same ball, that's what.



Llakor
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#93 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.64
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by StingArmy
      What's he going to do when he has two perennial all stars in the starting lineup with him and a handful of handpicked specialists filling out the roster?


    He's going to get fewer rebounds and assists because he has better teammates competing for the same ball, that's what.


Disagree. His scoring might go down. His rebounds and assists are likely to go up.

He is likely to get more assists because he will be passing to teammates who can actually score.

Rebounds is arguable, but he will be less likely to be double-teamed all the time unless the defensive plan is double-team James and Wade, put one player on Bosh and some role-player on the Heat (Martin?) scores 30 a night because he keeps getting uncontested shots!

If he is not being double-teamed all the time he will be able to hustle for rebounds.



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TheBucsFan
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#94 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.45
    Originally posted by Llakor
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
        Originally posted by StingArmy
        What's he going to do when he has two perennial all stars in the starting lineup with him and a handful of handpicked specialists filling out the roster?


      He's going to get fewer rebounds and assists because he has better teammates competing for the same ball, that's what.


    Disagree. His scoring might go down. His rebounds and assists are likely to go up.

    He is likely to get more assists because he will be passing to teammates who can actually score.

    Rebounds is arguable, but he will be less likely to be double-teamed all the time unless the defensive plan is double-team James and Wade, put one player on Bosh and some role-player on the Heat (Martin?) scores 30 a night because he keeps getting uncontested shots!

    If he is not being double-teamed all the time he will be able to hustle for rebounds.


I'm trying to think of a comparable situation, where a versatile player like James went to a loaded team in the prime of his career, to see how that player's stats were effected, but I can't think of any. Can you?



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#95 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.48
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Jordan never won a playoff series against the Celtics.
I'm sure that bothers him.
StingArmy
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#96 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
My thought on his rebound average is that he's going to be without the ball way more often when shots go up (since he's got at least two other more-than-capable scorers on his team). That can only lead to more rebounding opportunities, no?

And I thought it was patently obvious that a guy like LeBron who is already running the point practically half the time would get way more assists when he's feeding passes to legit 30pt threats instead of role players who might chip in 10 to 15 a night.

- StingArmy
TheBucsFan
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#97 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.45
    Originally posted by StingArmy
    My thought on his rebound average is that he's going to be without the ball way more often when shots go up (since he's got at least two other more-than-capable scorers on his team). That can only lead to more rebounding opportunities, no?


Yeah, that is a good point.


    And I thought it was patently obvious that a guy like LeBron who is already running the point practically half the time would get way more assists when he's feeding passes to legit 30pt threats instead of role players who might chip in 10 to 15 a night.


I had assumed Wade would be handling the ball as much or more than James. I know these position titles don't really mean much anymore, but James is typically billed as a forward, right? While Wade is definitely a guard. I figured James handled the ball so much in Cleveland just because there wasn't anyone else who could do it.



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#98 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
I have to assume the offense will run through Wade. Esp. with Mike Miller at the 2 James is going to play down. He may dream of being the new Magic Johnson but he's going to have to be the new James Worthy.



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StingArmy
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#99 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    I had assumed Wade would be handling the ball as much or more than James. I know these position titles don't really mean much anymore, but James is typically billed as a forward, right? While Wade is definitely a guard. I figured James handled the ball so much in Cleveland just because there wasn't anyone else who could do it.

Yeah, Wade is definitely a guard and James is definitely a forward (although I hear the title "point forward" applied to James a lot). But I'm not sure how happy Wade would be suddenly being the PG for this team. You're right about position titles not meaning a whole lot these days, but if I recall correctly the unhappiest times for Wade in Miami were when he didn't have a reliable PG to feed him the ball. Having the entire offense run through him is actually NOT something he'd like.

In fact, I think the biggest draw for him to go to Chicago was that he'd have possibly the best young PG in the game, Derrick Rose, playing with him in the backcourt. With Rose running the point, Wade would be free to get open and play more of a Kobe Bryant-like role.

I assume the starting lineup will be something like this:

LeBron James
Dwyane Wade
Mike Miller
Chris Bosh
Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Bosh is definitely a PF and Ilgauskas is definitely a C. And even though Miller and James are about the same size, Miller is definitely a SG and not a forward. I guess I just assumed with LeBron on this team now, LeBron would take over the point, because despite the fact he's billed as a forward, it's LeBron and not Wade that's known for being one of the top passers in the game. Maybe he and Wade will alternate in that role, depending on who else is on the court and what's happening in the game.

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#100 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.59

stories out there say Lebron's goal is to average a triple double this season.

if true, he would like be a point forward.



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