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The W - Random - Digital Cable (Page 2)
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Stefonics
Bockwurst








Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
Turns out that I was right in not understanding your position and the inner workings of the cable industry... thanks for the explanation.

In response to pieman, I do not believe that it is "right" or "okay" to steal cable. Palpatine's argument is right on the money here when he used stealing from Sony as an example. Cable, t.v.'s, dvd players, etc... are not staples of life, and no matter how you slice it, it is wrong to steal these goods and services. And why would I want to go near your children? I'm a sometimes theif, not a pedophile.



Is Brooklyn in the house? Yes, yes I think it is.
pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21
Not because of being a pedophile, but because I wouldn't want them to hear your views on the definition of stealing. Well, maybe that would be okay, so that I could then explain to them how wrong it is to steal.


You said: "Stealing, let alone stealing cable, is no where near as black or white as, say, murder."

In my book (and what I hope I get across to my children) is that stealing is wrong. Period. End of discussion. It is black and white.



He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.
TinMan
Blutwurst








Since: 11.1.02
From: TX

Since last post: 1470 days
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#23 Posted on

    Originally posted by pieman
    Not because of being a pedophile, but because I wouldn't want them to hear your views on the definition of stealing. Well, maybe that would be okay, so that I could then explain to them how wrong it is to steal.


    You said: "Stealing, let alone stealing cable, is no where near as black or white as, say, murder."

    In my book (and what I hope I get across to my children) is that stealing is wrong. Period. End of discussion. It is black and white.



So say for example you are watching the cable you pay for each month and you are flipping throught the channels and you see a WWE pay per view that you nor anyone in your family ordered. It just happened to be a pay per view you wanted to get but were a little short that month and couldn't put out the $40. Do you watch the pay per view and call the company so you are billed properly? Do you watch and enjoy it without paying for it?

Also do you download music, programs, movies, etc form the net? If you do then there are some that would consider that theft of property?

There is no black and white answer to the particular question that has been posed here. It depends on your upbringing and morality. Like I had said initially, I pay for cable and don't think it is right for others to get it free but that is my own view and I don't try and force that on others.

Oh yeah, this is a dictatorship though so nevermind...lol



The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
I can fuck better than anybody who can fuck faster, and I can fuck faster than anybody who can fuck better.
vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 3063 days
Last activity: 277 days
#24 Posted on

    Originally posted by TinMan


So say for example you are watching the cable you pay for each month and you are flipping through the channels and you see a WWE pay per view that you nor anyone in your family ordered. It just happened to be a pay per view you wanted to get but were a little short that month and couldn't put out the $40. Do you watch the pay per view and call the company so you are billed properly? Do you watch and enjoy it without paying for it?



That's not stealing. That's a happy accident. That's goods being delivered to you that you didn't order or offer to pay for, as a result of an independent action by the cable company.

Now, if you can't tell the difference between that and in deliberately ASKING "Hey, where do I get a box that'll let me watch this PPV for free," you need to think about it for a minute. The end result is similar, but the intent and culpability are quite different.



"No society has managed to invest more time and energy in the perpetuation of the fiction that it is _moral, sane and wholesome_ than our current crop of _Modern Americans_."
-- Frank Zappa
Stefonics
Bockwurst








Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
Right on TinMan... I too pay for cable, but yet I download music from the net... how odd.

Pieman, surely you must not be saying that someone like me would be a bad influence on your children. Please do not question my character without knowing me. I do not judge your parenting skills. Stealing is not a black and white issue. If you suddenly found yourself out of a job, the wife left town, and you were forced to live on the street, would you say that it was wrong to steal bread (to use a too often used cliche) to feed your children, or would you say to them "Sorry kids, daddy believes that stealing is a black and white issue. I know that you will starve to death, but you'll be thankful, looking back on this from the afterlife, that you gained a lesson in morality." If you would, I'd want you to stay away from MY kids.

See how insane that last statement was? Granted, stealing cable and stealing bread (or any food product) to feed one's family are on two completely opposite sides of the spectrum. But, as you said, stealing is a black and white issue. Both are wrong. And far be it from me, or anyone else on the planet, to do anything even remotely close to "wrong".



Is Brooklyn in the house? Yes, yes I think it is.
calvinh0560
Boudin rouge








Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

Since last post: 590 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#26 Posted on
You know why I sometimes hate the cable company. The whole situation with the YES network at NYC. There are what like 7 million people who can't see the Yankees play because of this whole situation. I know that YES is also to blame for this but right now here in Boston we get to watch every single Red Sox game on free cable TV and I know I would hate it if I lost all the games. Most people can't even get the DISH to watch the games since you have to have a clear view of the southwest sky.
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 4 hours
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by calvinh0560
    You know why I sometimes hate the cable company. The whole situation with the YES network at NYC. There are what like 7 million people who can't see the Yankees play because of this whole situation. I know that YES is also to blame for this but right now here in Boston we get to watch every single Red Sox game on free cable TV and I know I would hate it if I lost all the games. Most people can't even get the DISH to watch the games since you have to have a clear view of the southwest sky.


either i'm too tired, or you didn't state in the whole paragraph what the "situation" was with YES and why they won't air yankees games...

sports teams are subject to local blackouts, unless baseball is exempt from that one...



"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college." -Lewis Black

"Yeah, fuck you E.T. you ungrateful dick." -BigDaddyLoco 5/20/2

"MAY PRE HOUSE THE SEAMY SIDE VOLITATION!!!" Warning from a "Flying Goku" Dragon Ball Z toy

"I'm her sugar momma, which is ok, because I'm her sister." Connie French, and the funniest thing one of my customers has ever said to me
calvinh0560
Boudin rouge








Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

Since last post: 590 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#28 Posted on

    Originally posted by rikidozan

    either i'm too tired, or you didn't state in the whole paragraph what the "situation" was with YES and why they won't air yankees games...

    sports teams are subject to local blackouts, unless baseball is exempt from that one...



Baseball is expemt from local blackouts. The short story is that YES whats to charge the cable company a little over $1 a month per customer for the rights to show the games on that cable system. The cable system wants to pass on that $1 charge onto the customer by making YES a pay channel. While YES whats to be on basic cable. Untill they come up with a comprimise most of NYC can not see Yankee games since all but 10 of them will be on YES this year. Some people are able to Watch the games on the DISH network but you need a clear view on the SW sky and if you ever been to NYC you will know that that is almost imposible.
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 2055 days
Last activity: 1708 days
#29 Posted on
I am pissed off about this kind of thing because they now require a box to get keep the premium channels. It would have been a total of $18 a month extra to keep what I had. So I canceled HBO. Damnit now I can't watch OZ when Beacher and Schillinger finnaly kill each other.



I just have 13 words for you. How much wood would a woodchuch chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 8 hours
AIM:  
#30 Posted on
I found myself thinking some about this thread while watching all of the Worldcom fallout today, and I realized why it is I would have little or no qualms about stealing cable or DSS service or the like. The situation in the US at this point has basically become "every man for himself" in terms of what they can get. Thousands of people lose retirement funds while CEO's make millions as the company collapses. No one gets punished for making fraudulent decisions, yet everyone on the bottom suffers, something I saw nice and clearly here in Chicago as Andersen imploded. No one will stand up for the average person, so we are left two choices it seems: take all you can and damn your fellows, or wait to be slaughtered while the top guys laugh all the way to the bank. So if we're going to be screwed over, and watch our fiscal peers be screwed over regardless of what we do, then it becomes harder and harder to justify not taking any actions which might give you a small victory over the system, one which will dramatically effect you, but will not be felt by the mammoth system which is working on far greater scams than any black box can ever be.

Hopefully this philosophical statement isn't going to put me on the banned list. I didn't tell anyone HOW to steal cable after all.



Anyone remember the joy of seeing him bash the Undertaker's motorcycle with his sledgemhammer and doing no damage and being all like, "Mjolnir will not break thine cycle? I say thee NAY!" and dumping it off the stage. - Enojado Viento says the funniest thing I've ever read on Wienerville.
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 74 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#31 Posted on
Two wrongs don't make a right - another philosophical statement.
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 4 hours
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by ges7184
    Two wrongs don't make a right - another philosophical statement.


true, but i'm with SPF

17,000 workers in the DC area are going to lose jobs over worldcom...unless the goverment can fine the board of worldcom, they will still have their millions in savings...



"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college." -Lewis Black

"Yeah, fuck you E.T. you ungrateful dick." -BigDaddyLoco 5/20/2

"MAY PRE HOUSE THE SEAMY SIDE VOLITATION!!!" Warning from a "Flying Goku" Dragon Ball Z toy

"I'm her sugar momma, which is ok, because I'm her sister." Connie French, and the funniest thing one of my customers has ever said to me
Ubermonkeys
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02
From: Michigan

Since last post: 3548 days
Last activity: 3422 days
AIM:  
#33 Posted on
There is some THINKING going on in this thread, and god knows I'm not about to bring any.

As TinMan and KidBrooklyn noted, how many of us download music illegally on the net? I know I do. I'd ask if Guru does, but buttons don't necessarily always need to be pushed. (Wink wink.)

Spf made some really really good points, and as ges said, two wrongs do indeed not make a right... but the sad thing is, in a situation like Worldcom, a few wrongs, and in DC, 17,000 rights also don't add up to a Sum Of Fairness. While I generally like to hold myself up to doing what I myself believe is "right", where does one draw the line when doing what's right apparently means little anymore?

Back on the subject of stealing cable, I wonder how many people don't do it because it's wrong, and how many don't do it simply because of the fear of being caught. If there was some relatively faceless way of doing it, like there is with downloading music (or any other copyrighted material from the net), how huge of a problem would it be then?



Go on... touch it.

ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 74 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#34 Posted on

    ... but the sad thing is, in a situation like Worldcom, a few wrongs, and in DC, 17,000 rights also don't add up to a Sum Of Fairness.


Life's not fair - my philosophical statement of the day
Ubermonkeys
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02
From: Michigan

Since last post: 3548 days
Last activity: 3422 days
AIM:  
#35 Posted on
And THAT brings us back to "Hey, fuck the idea of somebody fucking me over. I should fuck them over first. Fucking shit."

Right?



Go on... touch it.

ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 74 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#36 Posted on
Nope, because that would take us back to "Two wrongs don't make a right." Then when you are getting screwed, just realize that "Life's not fair.", but at least you are doing the right thing, and that's all you can do. Can I get an amen from the choir!?
Stefonics
Bockwurst








Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
Yes, standing with your thumb up your ass while you get screwed is good, as long as you're doing the right thing. Please give me a break. I'm not a super-patriot or anything, but wasn't not standing by while getting screwed a major principle behind the Revolutionary War? Did the colonialists question their morality as they slew thousands of Brits? Yes, it is wrong to steal cable. Yes, it puts Guru's job in danger. But it is even more wrong for 17,000 people to get screwed for no reason while ceo's collect obscene paychecks. If the upper classes are not keeping their morality in check, then why should the proletariat? Talk about conformity...



Is Brooklyn in the house? Yes, yes I think it is.
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 74 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#38 Posted on
What a CEO makes is none of my business. What the Revolutionaries did was the right thing, because they were getting robbed by the British and stood up and fought back (only after all other channels were exhasted). I can't believe that stealing cable is more about getting one up on big business than it is about getting something for nothing for yourself. (and I don't follow the logic that 17,000 other people lost their job so I should get free cable) And if the WorldCom people did something illegal, they should pay the price because they did something wrong. However, I will point out that those 17,000 people don't have a right to a job. And could it be that the only reason they had a job up til now is because Worldcom was lying about their revenue? Could it be that if Worldcom was honest, those 17,000 would have lost their job long ago due to the company's poor performance? There are often mass layoffs at companies that do everything on the up-and-up. It happens. Hell, I lost my job during this last downturn in the economic cycle, but I don't bitch and whine about it. Those 17,000 people will get new jobs eventually. It sucks in the short-term, but in the long-term everything will work out, I'm confident.

If you have a problem with unjust in the system, I would suggest that you do something that actually changes the system (like the Revolutionaries), not steal cable (which will accomplish nothing, except get yourself free cable, which is what this is really about, not something for the greater good of mankind). But if you honestly feel that stealing cable is the right thing, by all means, do it.
Ubermonkeys
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02
From: Michigan

Since last post: 3548 days
Last activity: 3422 days
AIM:  
#39 Posted on
Ges, I don't agree with a lot of what you said, but it's hard to argue that the original topic is barely being discussed anymore. That said,

Those 17,000 people will get new jobs eventually. It sucks in the short-term, but in the long-term everything will work out, I'm confident.

You should be a politician.



Go on... touch it.

Stefonics
Bockwurst








Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00

    Originally posted by Ubermonkeys
    Ges, I don't agree with a lot of what you said, but it's hard to argue that the original topic is barely being discussed anymore.


Guru said we couldn't discuss the original topic, so this has deteriorated into an almost pointless debate of morals between faceless names who each believe they know more than every other faceless name.

That being said, there really is not much I can argue with in your last post ges... no, I don't believe that many of the people stealing cable are doing it for the greater good of mankind. I'm just saying that people getting something for free (stealing) nicely chips away at the foundation. However, there aren't enough people stealing cable in order to make a difference, so it doesn't really matter. Maybe if stealing cable was as easy as downloading music, it would be a different story.



Is Brooklyn in the house? Yes, yes I think it is.
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