Originally posted by ironcladlouI think I remember RVD finishing at least one PPV match with the Van Terminator...the time when he debuted it, against Scotty Riggs? Am I fabricating memories here?
I'm not positive it was against Riggs, but he definitely used it as the finisher at one of the ECW pay per views. Styles was hyping it up the whole night, saying RVD had promised he was going to debut a devastating new finishing move.
I'm surprised persona non grata Randy Savage made the list, though the entry was still filled with little digs.
“How is it that I am a good actor? What I do is I... pretend to be the person I’m portraying. You’re confused. Case in point: in Lord of the Rings, Peter Jackson comes to me and says ‘I would like you to be Gandalf the Wizard,’ and I said ‘You are aware that I am not really a wizard?’ and Peter Jackson said ‘I would like you to use your acting skills to portray a wizard for the duration of the show.’ So I said ‘Okay’ and then I said to myself ‘Mmm.. How do I do that?’ And this is what I did: I imagined that I was a wizard, and then I pretended, and acted, in that way on the stage. How did I know what to say? The words were written down for me in a script. How did I know where to stand? People told me where to stand." -- Sir Ian McKellen, Extras
I'm not surprised that the Stone Cold Stunner was #1. What I am surprised about is that the Walls of Jericho wasn't even included in the list and that HBK's Sweet Chin Music was only ranked 7th (I consider it one of the top 3 finishers of all time).
I would, based on the move's popularity and/or how devesating they looked in defeating the opponent, had put Hogan's leg drop, the Angle lock, and the Crippler Crossface into the list. But for various yet obvious reasons, none of those three are going to be mentioned in the WWE anytime soon.
Originally posted by ironcladlouI'm a little surprised the Vertebreaker isn't on the list. That's a killer move.
Also, no love for the Diamond Cutter? The RKO and Twist of Fate both made the list, and they are both inferior knock-offs. They even say the RKO can be "delivered at any time", which was a big selling point for the Cutter.
Originally posted by Big BadI'm surprised persona non grata Randy Savage made the list, though the entry was still filled with little digs.
Originally posted by The Guinness.Where is the Jackhammer? Number 26? I mean c'mon Macho Man made the list. Why not just a smidgen of love for Goldberg?
Randy Savage is NOT "persona non grata" to the WWE, and I think it's about time that notion was dropped.
So what if they dig at his album, a lot of people have. That's an old and obvious joke to make. The WWE has never discredited Savage's ability or his contributions to the WWF/E. They may not talk about him/them, but it's not like they treat him like he's the plague and/or completely avoid any reference to him and/or make it obvious they are going out of their way to ignore/exclude him as they are doing with Chris Benoit (for example, differences notwithstanding).
Randy Savage has been featured numerous times in clips on DVDs and WWE TV in what is generally a neutral light (a shot of him spinning, then HBK spinning has been shown tons of times on intro compilations). He's been featured on the Web site as recently as last month with their graphic of him with the IC title for the IC Title DVD they are putting together. His matches are often showcased on WWE 24/7 Online, with WWE 24/7 Online-exclusive programs giving his reigns as champion ample time, credit and praise.
Even his brother, The Genius, said Savage isn't very much interested in doing anything wrestling-related. He said Savage wouldn't be opposed to a deal if one came up, but he wasn't actively searching either. If Savage isn't in WWE, it's because of him and McMahon not coming to an agreement, not because of "heat." I have no reason to believe otherwise, and the wrestling community shouldn't either. That's especially true when you consider that pro wrestlers are like high schoolers in that they love, love, love gossip and BS. If any of those rumors about Savage were true, it certainly would have been brought up by now by individuals who enjoy stirring that sort of thing up in (shoot) interviews.
Plus, where's good ol' Meltzer when it comes to Savage? Isn't he the scoop-machine with all the facts and inside info about all the juicy details and know-how about everything ever in wrestling? I'll admit my ignorance if he's said something about it, but I haven't heard anything other than "McMahon gets annoyed when Savage's name is brought up." That's it.
As far as Goldberg (in comparison to Savage), the Elbow Drop was for it's time innovative and very cool watch. At the time, who else was diving off the top with such fanfare and significance other than Superfly Snuka and Dynamite Kid? Jesse Ventura even noted how that was THE move of the time. With goldberg, there were much more devastating moves being done elsewhere that outshined his suplex.
Did I miss Hogan's Leg Drop on that list?
Of course, like all their lists, WWE's stuff is relative, and perhaps subjective, to their current time and audience.
I agree with most of the people here. The top 10 is pretty well done except Hogan's Leg Drop and Jake Roberts DDT should be in there. And you could even make it the DDT for Roberts and Raven to make it even better.
I like Total Elimination alright but I think the 3D would obviously be in there if the tag team were not currently in TNA, same for the Ankle Lock.
I'd definitely throw in the Crippler Crossface, put the Widow's Peak over Stratusfaction, Mysterio's huracarana I'd put over some of those last few. Obviously the WWE would never include it but I like the Styles Clash enough to be in there too. Another personal choice of mine would be the Bonzai Drop. Yokozuna was one of the few monster heels to face Hogan/Undertaker that I actually liked.
Also, I know it may be blasphemy to some but I'd put the Sharpshooter over the Figure Four. I know a lot of people think Flair is the greatest of all-time but the Sharpshooter was simultaneously used by Bret Hart AND Sting, then later Owen and later The Rock.
Meltzer, the scoop-machine with all the facts and inside info about all the juicy details and know-how about everything ever in wrestling, has reported that Vince personally nixed the Randy Savage DVD after it was in the planning stages and has personally nixed him as a Hall of Fame candidate. When Michael Hayes pitched an idea for a Savage return, Vince was quoted by a member of the writing team as saying, "I do not want to do business with that man."
All that Meltzer, TSMWATFAIIAATJDAKHAEEIW, has said about the Illicit, Illicit Savage Rumors when asked is that he has no idea and that it's a subject people in the company shy away from talking about. He says that whatever the case, the higher-ups in the company think that Savage is legit crazy (and his behavior from his brief TNA run don't really contradict that).
I'd say Randy Savage is relatively "persona non grata" to the WWE, and I don't think there's any reason to drop that notion. I'm as big a proponent of "pro wrestlers are like high schoolers in that they love, love, love gossip and BS" as anybody and rolling my eyes at message board triteness. But there's a difference between "LITA IS A SHOOT WHORE, I HEARD SOME CRAZY STORIES" and the Savage thing, where there is clearly some kind of issue there when they have tried to bring back every star and near-star from the last thirty years, including major enemies of the state like Ole Anderson and the Ultimate Warrior, but the second biggest star of the '80s is a non-starter.
Back on thread topic: I can't believe that some fake move was rated higher than some other fake move. No one ever kicked out of the first fake move.
Well, JR says in Beyond the Mat that if Jake could "control the demons" he'd be one of the most influential creative forces in the industry... That was pretty high praise, even coming from a bullshit artist.