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31.10.14 0713
The W - Pro Wrestling - Chris Benoit passes away (Page 18)
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Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#341 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.83
I agree with Emma, my previous remarks notwithstanding.

I still see the situation as a series of terrible deeds. However, it is rather evident that anybody who would do something like this is mentally ill. After all, who in their 'right mind' would?

However, pointing towards the psychological effects of steroid use, or depression, or as someone else pointed out the perfectionist nature of the man, seems less like 'blame' to me. Trying to find reason in the wake of an event such as this is pure human nature; those who don't question motive whatsoever are emotionless, and by proxy, mentally ill themselves.

In reality, psychological evaluation may be the next step taken in preventing something like this happening. Drug tests are administered at an alarming rate in this country, often with the belief that drugs will corrupt your mind and cause stuff like this to happen. In truth, this incident, along with recent incidencies such as the Virginia Tech Gunman, had nothing to do with drugs at all, but the psychology of those who perpetrated the acts.

I say within our lifetime random Psych Evals will be as prevalent within the professional realm as random drug tests, but not any time soon.



Hold nothing sacred and you'll never be dissapointed. Especially not this statement.
lost_my_testes
Longanisa








Since: 12.6.03
From: California

Since last post: 1821 days
Last activity: 1772 days
#342 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.80
All my feelings about this whole Benoit incident can be summed up in two words: Extreme Dissappointment.

I don't hate Benoit, nor do I admire him anymore. I've become indifferent to him.

When I came home on Monday evening, I saw the news that Benoit and his family had died. I instantly assumed, like there was no doubt in my mind, that there had to have been a car accident, a defective house, something. However as the hours passed, the incoming news became grimmer and grimmer, and it felt so surreal.

My sadness turned to utter dissappointment. What the hell is wrong with you, Chris?

For the remainder of the night, I had the image of Chris Benoit crying uncontrollably during his tribute to Eddie Guerrero. He came off as such a tender man, which threw me off from even assuming he could do such a thing as murdering not only his wife, but his son as well.

I'm not so much offended for myself personally. I'm offended for what would've been his great legacy, which is now tarnished beyond belief. I'm offended for the WWE, who gave him everything, short of multiple world title pushes, and an organization who trusted him and loved him. I'm even offended for Benoit himself, for placing all his hard work and sacrifices in vain. And most of all, I'm offended for his family, for Nancy and Daniel, who had to endure Benoit's ultimate decision.

Like I said, I don't hate Benoit, but I can't wipe the dissappointment away.

(edited by lost_my_testes on 27.6.07 1612)
Skarecrow
Polska kielbasa








Since: 5.5.05
From: Maryland

Since last post: 2167 days
Last activity: 2130 days
#343 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.00
I wasn't going to post again for awhile yet, not until more facts came out... but I wanted to chime in here on the subject that's going on right now.

How WE feel about Benoit.

I don't hate him.

Don't get me wrong... of course I don't understand, I don't agree, I certainly don't support, but on the other hand I don't feel the super desire for him to not be dead so that "he can get what he deserves". At most, I'd just want him to be alive to explain.

I think it's a better thing for the world that he's NOT alive. Yes, even for the surviving family members.

I still honestly believe, at this point anyway, that this is a man who was very likely truely screwed up in the head. I wouldn't even classify him as "evil"... close, but not quite. These arn't the actions of a megolomaniac dictator taking over countries as he sees fit because he wants more power. They arn't the actions of a scientist torturing people and animals for "research" purposes at a whim because he doesn't care about their fates. These are the actions of a man who lost touch with reality.

I may not feel the urge to go look up the hard knocks dvd, but I will still be able to watch wrestlemania XX. If I see OJ simpson in the naked gun movies, I don't turn them off. I simply say "hey. OJ simpson back in the day. weird." I wont' view him in the matches the same way, It'll always be the "dude, it's HIM. weird" vibe in the back of my mind, but I'll still be able to watch.

I don't think that makes me a bad person either.

(edited by Skarecrow on 27.6.07 1922)

(edited by Skarecrow on 27.6.07 1923)

Evil Inside =X=
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 12 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#344 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.53
    Originally posted by ges7184
    Not even talking about this case specifically, in general I think suicide is one the most cowardly acts one can perform.


Tell that to MARCUS BRUTUS! But seriously --


    Actually thinking about your question of "other people's cartharsis", if by other people you mean people on this message board, then no, it's not a tragedy. But if you mean family members and friends, perhaps it really is.


-- without question there's a big difference. I was only referring to a) people completely unrelated and b) the idea that killing himself makes things worse or was some kind of even lower low. Not a shot at user wpob, as I understand where he's coming from but at this point, does it matter? Would it somehow be more satisfying to THROW THE BOOK~! at Chris Benoit? This is sad enough to where the idea that Chris Benoit suffered when he died or is burning in hell doesn't really lend me any comfort.
Wpob
Lap cheong








Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 21 hours
Last activity: 19 hours
#345 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.25
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by Wpob
      At to make matters worse, the coward he was in killing them is nothing compared to the ultimate act of cowardness - killing himself afterwards to avoid repercutions.


    The repercussion of ... death? He really swerved us there.

    Tragedy #4: that Chris Benoit isn't still alive for other people's catharsis? I dunno, it's f'd up to talk about but I look at suicide as a remorseful or at least despondent act. I don't really see how Benoit killing himself makes matters any worse.

    (edited by JustinShapiro on 27.6.07 1742)


The repercussions of what he did. He does not have to face his or Nancy's family. He does not have to face his fans and neighbors. He does not have to face a criminal justice system. The best thing for HIM was to kill himself. Any feelings of remorse or guilt are gone. If he did not kill himself then his name gets pulled through the mud even further than it has by commiting suicide.

Nancy's family and his OWN family have no closure now. Shokced fans all over the world are left scratching their heads and wondering why. Right now, there are plenty of people who will convince themselves that he was sick and it was NOT premeditated and will continue to be fans. But what if he didn't kill hmimself and it came out that he had a history of violence not only against Nancy but Daniel too? What if it came out that he was an awful father? Then no one remains a fan to his legacy because everyone sees him as a stone cold killer and an evil person. Then there is no one on this board or the wrestling community who feels pity or sadness for him (well mostly no one).

Instead, he offs himself and to some (25%? More?) he is still the Chris Benoit of old who PROBABLY had some mental problems beyond his control.

That is a coward.

I have taught and will continue to teach my kids to stand up and be accoutable for their actions. If you did somethign wrong, fess up about and do not lie or pass the buck and accept your punishment. Chris Benoit killed his wife and 7 year old son. But he never was and never will be held accountable for his actions. All because he chose the easy way out and killed himself.

Coward.



Fry crack corn and I don't care
Leela crack corn I still don't care
Bender crack corn and he is great
Take that you stupid corn!

"just because you ARE a character does not mean you HAVE character.."
CajunMan
Boudin blanc
No longer registered








Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

Since last post: 1107 days
Last activity: 244 days
#346 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.97
Bret Hart on Nancy Grace tonight 7:30 pm cent/8:30 east.

Show airs on CNN Headline News.

Source: Observer



I'm CajunMan and I approve this message.
Cheesehead
Mettwurst








Since: 24.10.03
From: WI, now in the land of the Vikings...*shudder*

Since last post: 1880 days
Last activity: 1880 days
#347 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
    Originally posted by emma
    I personally believe that the meaning to be taken from this tragedy is in the area of public understanding of mental health. But that's a difficult problem -- pinning "the blame" on something more tangible is easier.


Well said--not only this but your whole post. The problem with public understanding of mental health (as well as the stigma associated with it and lack of adequate mental health care) is enough to write pages and pages of comments in a topic of its own.



Profile for Giraffa
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
#348 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
    Originally posted by Wpob
    Instead, he offs himself and to some (25%? More?) he is still the Chris Benoit of old who PROBABLY had some mental problems beyond his control.


Given that he killed his family and himself, the "probably" is not really debatable - unless you feel that these are the actions of someone who is mentally stable and healthy.

Additionally, your post largely proves Emma's point that the stigma regarding mental health alone is a serious obstacle in getting those who need help the help they so desperately need.





"Oh my God! They have a shit-load of Cockapoo stuff!"
-Jennifer's greatest quote... ever.
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 52 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#349 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.42
A WWE attorney has stated that Chris and Nancy were having disagreements over child care in the days leading up to this event. Apparently Nancy thought Chris should stay home more often to help take care of the kid.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070627/ap_on_re_us/wrestler_dead



The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 12 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#350 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.53
I'm not going to debate the value and merits of Chris Benoit's suicide, but to look at it as some kind of strategic attempt to preserve his reputation is, like, come on.


Here's a transcript of Dave Meltzer on FightRadio. Since Dave knew Benoit very well and has spoken to a lot of his friends over the last two days, I think this lends some insight, at least more than you can find from, like, Grandmaster Sexay right now. I don't think anyone is looking to find excuses for him (well, I won't say anyone, but no rational people), but I know people really want to try and understand his frame of mind considering what a shock this was. This is, obviously, less than well-structured, since it was just him talking to the host.

    Originally posted by Dave Meltzer
    It's such a complex issue, but there are two different Chris Benoits, I think that's the key, because the one thing is is that the Chris Benoit that we all knew was not this guy, but this guy did change in the last year and I believe -- there's many issues -- but it was the preponderance of dealing with many deaths led to increased drug use and I think it drove him crazy.

    But at the same time, there were seeds of this early because you look at the 2003 thing where Nancy got the protection order against him so it does go back before the death of Eddie Guerrero, the death of Johnny Grunge, the death of Victor Mar all in a seven week period, and I really look at that as the turning point of Chris's life where he lost his best friend, he lost his best friend in Japan, and he lost the guy that would make him laugh when he was in the worst mood possible.

    It affects everyone, but the deaths affect Chris really bad, and I'm not just talking about those three guys, but if you look at from Davey Boy and Owen and Brian Pillman and Larry Cameron even though Larry Cameron was years ago, but if you look at guys that Chris was close with, even Stu even though Stu was old. The list is really long and I just think that that depression from all of that, you know a 40 year old guy. They were closer to him than to most people. Brian Hildebrand is another one. So many of his closest friends, most of his closest friends had passed away at a young age. And I am not making any excuses for what happened, but I am saying that these were the things to a guy who had a very dark side.

    Chris loved professional wrestling, but at the same time he was not stupid, and I think that that was an inner conflict as well. I think that all of these deaths had to tell him that there was something horrible, even though he would always say you cannot blame wrestling, the fact is that he had to at some point go, what's happening here yet at the same time he loved wrestling so deeply and a lot of other things led to more and more paranoia. Chris had gotten incredibly paranoid about everything and his drug usage had upped most likely over the last couple of months. Everyone pins the point from Eddie and those other two deaths.
I Breastfeed John Madden
Head cheese








Since: 13.4.04
From: Des Moines, IA

Since last post: 186 days
Last activity: 143 days
#351 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.19
So, Benoit's DVD is making its way up the Amazon charts.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/ref=pd_ts_d_nav/002-3351087-2820021?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=left-1&pf_rd_r=037Z1ASJDAAEVD9CT4RW&pf_rd_t=2101&pf_rd_p=221591101&pf_rd_i=home



Malone.
Ex-Cop, Ex-CIA, Ex-plosive.
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#352 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
Not surprising. I manage a store that sells, among other things, used and vintage action figures. On Tuesday, I estimate we sold a dozen Chris Benoit figures, from crappy WCW ones up to the really nice ones Jakks makes currently. And I'd have sold more if we had more.

People are kinda fucked up.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 12 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#353 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.53
    Originally posted by CajunMan
    Bret Hart on Nancy Grace tonight 7:30 pm cent/8:30 east.

    Show airs on CNN Headline News.


This was amazing. "Chris Benoit had been one of the elite, the Four Horsemen and now he was on RAW. How did he handle this demotion?"
Galidor
Boerewors








Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 205 days
Last activity: 205 days
#354 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.13
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by CajunMan
      Bret Hart on Nancy Grace tonight 7:30 pm cent/8:30 east.

      Show airs on CNN Headline News.


    This was amazing. "Chris Benoit had been one of the elite, the Four Horsemen and now he was on RAW. How did he handle this demotion?"


Did Bret actually SAY this?!
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 12 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#355 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.53
Nancy did.
Galidor
Boerewors








Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 205 days
Last activity: 205 days
#356 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.13
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Nancy did.


Ok, that is forgivable, she doesnt understand the business.
CajunMan
Boudin blanc
No longer registered








Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

Since last post: 1107 days
Last activity: 244 days
#357 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.97
    Originally posted by Galidor
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Nancy did.


    Ok, that is forgivable, she doesnt understand the business.



Can't blame Alex Marvez for hanging up after hearing that.


Did anybody see Brian Christopher interview on Anderson Cooper last night?



I'm CajunMan and I approve this message.
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 122 days
Last activity: 5 days
#358 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
Obviously she doesn't know a wristlock from a wristwatch.

I saw one report that mentioned that the cable news people were increasing coverage based on all the hits the story was getting on their websites. That said, from what little I've seen channel surfing - Nancy Grace is all about finding the killer/kidnapper of some young white girl, or ensuring the death penalty for whatever juicy trial is going on at the time. Talking about a crime that has no defendant to crucify is totally going against her gimmick.

I have a feeling that the story's closer to started than getting dumped from cable news "rotation".
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 52 min.
#359 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.38
    Originally posted by Galidor
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Nancy did.


    Ok, that is forgivable, she doesnt understand the business.



That's why it's *not* forgivable. She's trying to make up the news as she goes (again). She crammed on a couple facts and started trying to make up a side-story about how his whole life was crashing down because his WWE career was a disaster compared to how great WCW treated him.


Tribal Prophet
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 52 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#360 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.42
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    Obviously she doesn't know a wristlock from a wristwatch.

    I saw one report that mentioned that the cable news people were increasing coverage based on all the hits the story was getting on their websites. That said, from what little I've seen channel surfing - Nancy Grace is all about finding the killer/kidnapper of some young white girl, or ensuring the death penalty for whatever juicy trial is going on at the time. Talking about a crime that has no defendant to crucify is totally going against her gimmick.

    I have a feeling that the story's closer to started than getting dumped from cable news "rotation".


You are thinking way too much inside the box. You think there is no one to crucify, but if you are just out to crucify someone, you can. And from what I have seen from Nancy Grace, she doesn't have much problem finding targets. I would think that she probably has Vince McMahon and wrestling in general squarely in her sights. (Granted, something easily could happen tomorrow that would make this all disappear instantly as far as cable channel interest. These days, big stories are only big stories until the next thing that happens that cable channels think will sell.)

I happened to catch a bit of O'Reilly's "coverage" tonight, and it just reminded me why I pretty much dislike a lot of the folks that have shows on cable news TV.

(edited by ges7184 on 27.6.07 2116)


The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
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