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The W - CRZ's World - ECW #3 27.6.6 (Page 2)
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Jackson
Sujuk








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 1968 days
Last activity: 1494 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.10
    Originally posted by CRZ
    You're biased, or something.


I guess that is directed to my comment last week. http://the-w.com/thread.php/id=30138#338267

I wasn't trying to say that you were somehow fudging the numbers. I was talking about your expressed desire to see those numbers go down. I really don't know what was so fucking cryptic about it.

At any rate I now encourage you to dog the show all you want now that Vince is booking it instead of Heyman.

I know. I'm making that last part up too, right?




Alpha Dog
Pickled pork








Since: 10.2.03

Since last post: 1814 days
Last activity: 22 hours
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.89
    Originally posted by Parts Unknown
    Man, that Mike Knox sure looks like Dante Hicks.


Aha! So that's who I was trying to think of. Well done young man.

    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    Ongoing Sandman Opponent Rankings
    1) The Zombie
    2) Macho Libre
    3) Fat Stripper


The conclusion to this saga has got to be that one of these freakshow types that Sandman is squashing every week turns out to have some fighting spirit of his own.

All we need is someone to no-sell a cane shot out of what would seem like another ho-hum Sandman beatdown and turn it into a beatdown of Sandman, replete with needed assistance from the back, and VOILA! instant three-month feud. My guess is that this is the vampire guy.

By the way, Zed, your recaps have been sorely missed!
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.84
    Originally posted by Jackson
    I wasn't trying to say that you were somehow fudging the numbers. I was talking about your expressed desire to see those numbers go down. I really don't know what was so fucking cryptic about it.
I'm afraid I'VE been cryptic, somehow, because you have totally blown it trying to "interpret" what I had said. This actually goes back to http://the-w.com/thread.php/id=30087#337888 where you seem to imply I have some kind of great love for Vince, which affects my writing, which I don't, and it doesn't, but you've clearly made up your mind on that one and I can't persuade you otherwise, so why waste any energy on it?

I don't think I've been inconsistent in my position that good television deserves higher ratings than awful television, even when it turns out that the absolute crap gets the biggest numbers. When that happens I don't feel bad about using words like "sadly" to describe that situation. I never do it to offend YOU. Although, I might start!

What's funny is I can already see where things are headed. When the shows start sucking (oh oh, I didn't say "if" - I've made up my mind already!) the seeds have been planted so that ALL the blame will go to Vince. That's fine and dandy because he owns the company, and (lest we forget) he's been running the "ECW brand initiative" since it first came up back in April. What bugs ME is somehow the great misunderstood genius Paul Heyman is somehow going to be absolved of ALL culpability, through well placed leaks to friendly sources that are only going to have a pro-Paul spin. It's just another way that we the marks are being worked, so yeah, I get a little annoyed when people get whiny just because I call "bullshit."

Let's say that #2 and #3 were "Paul" shows. Was there anything from #2 that was so compelling you felt you had to tune in to see #3? Hey, maybe it's unfair to take them as a standalone show, and maybe we should include RAW in the "setting up reasons to watch #3" equation - but wait, if we DO, does that mean we have to credit people OTHER THAN PAUL? Because last I checked, he wasn't on Team RAW Creative. The third show was the second show. The ratings were DOWN, which indicated that all those people who watched the NBA Finals instead of ECW didn't feel a need to catch a rerun of the show they missed, so the next thing you know you start to question whether the NBA Finals really DID affect the ECW rating. But, hey, if we do that, we might be questioning the effect that misunderstood super genius Paul Heyman has on the product! And, hey, to do *that* is to blatantly suck up to Vince.

I just want to be clear that if the show sucks, and I SAY the show sucks, I'm not going after misunderstood genius Paul Heyman, and I'm not even going after Vince. What I'm saying is that THE SHOW SUCKS. Believe it or not, it's VERY easy to separate that statement in a recap I wrote from a reply in a completely different thread where I point out that, gee, Dave Scherer had something to say that contained a positive spin towards misunderstood super genius Paul Heyman. I suppose when I say "VERY easy" I should have added "for most people."



CRZ
Jackson
Sujuk








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 1968 days
Last activity: 1494 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.10
You sarcastically call Heyman a misunderstood super genius three times on one post in order to explain how you don't have a hard on against the guy?

I hate to argue ratings because it's all subjective but they were better than Sci-Fi expected. If fact they were good enough for you to think that they were apparently undeserved. It's not like Smackdown is doing much better. Unfortunately, neither you or Vince have the the patience to wait for the show to get better. So, off with it's head! Bastardize it and bury it just like all the previous Invasion failures so we can all clearly see that the WWE always has and always will be the superior product.

Getting back to our original disagreement, assuming the dirtsheets are not to be trusted, let's get hypothetical. Even if you think Heyman is overrated do you see any point in bringing back ECW if he isn't going to book it? Sure seeing Vince make a joke of ECW much like he did with WCW might give you a laugh but do you honestly think it would be a better show? I mean, that is what we both want right?



Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.43
    Originally posted by Jackson
    You sarcastically call Heyman a misunderstood super genius three times on one post in order to explain how you don't have a hard on against the guy?

His bias isn't against Heyman, but those that will automatically assume that when something goes wrong it can't be Heyman's fault and/or if there's any fault with it that Heyman isn't involved whatsoever. It's not bias against Heyman, it's a criticism (and I think a legit one) against those with such a hard-on for him that they automatically absolve him of any wrongdoing no matter what the situation. It's not an indictment of Heyman's abilities or character, but rather that he's only human, and it's about time people realized that while he's arguably one of the best bookers of the past fifteen years, he's not the infallible creative genius that so many people (including fans, wrestlers, and some working behind the scenes) would like to believe he is.

    Originally posted by Jackson
    I hate to argue ratings because it's all subjective but they were better than Sci-Fi expected. If fact they were good enough for you to think that they were apparently undeserved. It's not like Smackdown is doing much better. Unfortunately, neither you or Vince have the the patience to wait for the show to get better. So, off with it's head! Bastardize it and bury it just like all the previous Invasion failures so we can all clearly see that the WWE always has and always will be the superior product.

I think you're missing the crux of his argument, or you're ignoring his point; I for one can't distinguish which it is. Regardless, you're right in pointing out that the ratings for ECW are higher than Sci-Fi's and most likely WWE's expectations, but it's not proportional to the quality of the show itself...especially the first week's program. This is not to say that there's a desire for the show to fail, however that poor quality deserves poor ratings, and perhaps if the ratings get poor enough it'll give them the initiative to start changing things for the better. I for one don't see the problem is with that argument.

If you want ECW to succeed, fine. I do as well, and so do a lot of others. However, if I'm presented with the option of seeing a really crappy and lame ECW or no ECW at all, I would rather not see it at all.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 1.7.06 2115)


Loyal MFer...er....SPFer.


Hey look, an emo-free LJ!
Jackson
Sujuk








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 1968 days
Last activity: 1494 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.10
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
    perhaps if the ratings get poor enough it'll give them the initiative to start changing things for the better.


Again what point is it in the rating getting lower? The change you all so desperately seem to want three weeks into the show has already happened. I didn't post the numerous additional articles this past week about Vince taking over complete control because I knew it would be dismissed as Heyman worship.

My question remains. Do you think that the solution for ECW is for Vince to book the show instead of Heyman because the fact is that is the only change you are going to get.





redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 457 days
Last activity: 457 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.46
The problem for ECW on TNN and ECW on Sci-Fi when compared to 'vintage' ECW is that in the 2 most recent incarnations, it is primarily a television show, while the 'vintage' incarnation had television as the secondary concern. In the syndicated 'vintage' version, all Paul had to do was book a hell of a show at the ECW Arena, and splice it to fit into 3-4 weeks of programming, with some Pulp Fiction at the end every few weeks. If the ad for Extreme Warfare Volume 1 ran a few seconds late, it ran a few seconds late. Now, ECW has real sponsors whose ads have to run in particular places at particular times, and the show has to be tailored somewhat around that.
Also, there has always been a different feel for shows that were primarily for the arena crowd that were also broadcast and matches that were primarily for broadcast with the arena crowd secondary. For example, which match was more enjoyable and would hold up better: Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation from Wrestling Challenge in 1986, or Killer Bees vs. Hart Foundation from MSG/Maple Leaf Gardens/Boston Garden that would be shown on the regional network or on Prime Time Wrestling. I'd think it would be the second option, as the match would have the opportunity to develop a flow without having to have things timed for commercial breaks or shortened for television purposes.
And, the crowd does play a role in the perception of ECW. Instead of a bunch of drunken degenerates sceaming 'We Want Blood' or 'You Fucked Up', you have little kids with home made Sabu signs or 'We Want Cena' chants.
If ECW does fail and Vince and Co. get the blame for watering it down while Paul E. is made a martyr, that's fine, as Vince and Co. can't be blamed for enough things. However, I'm still trying to figure out why Paul E. allowed Vince and Co. to book the last 6 months of ECW on TNN, as that was pretty awful as well.
2P4E
Boerewors








Since: 4.1.05
From: SE12, London, UK.

Since last post: 421 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.74
    Originally posted by Alpha Dog
      Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      Ongoing Sandman Opponent Rankings
      1) The Zombie
      2) Macho Libre
      3) Fat Stripper


    The conclusion to this saga has got to be that one of these freakshow types that Sandman is squashing every week turns out to have some fighting spirit of his own.


I hadn't thought of this til i read your post, but i really hope this isn't how they bring back The Boogeyman.



Watching Grunge leg drop New Jack through a press table

Carpet Hed

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Related threads: ECW on Sci-Fi #3 6-27-06 - ECW #2 20.6.6 - ECW on Sci-Fi #2 6-20-06 - More...
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