The W
Views: 100879064
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
26.11.14 1432
The W - Pro Wrestling - WrestleMania 21: Discuss (Page 4)
This thread has 119 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Thread rated: 4.52
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next
(5534 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (90 total)
Wpob
Lap cheong








Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#61 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.58
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
    <3. Money in the Bank (Even though they jumped RIGHT into the ladder spots. Give the crowd what they want to see, I guess.)
    Everything else was fair to forgettable. Probably the Mania with the least potential for repeat viewings.




As for the Money in the Bank, well why wouldn't you go for the ladder early? I was always kind of surprised in the past TLC matches that no one makes an early attempt at the ladder to get the belt. I had no problem with this. Cena and JBL getting their match cut short I have a problem with. Eliminate Trish;s match or the Akebono squash. Don;t cut a title match.



I think you're an asshole. No, no, let me correct that, an immature asshole. Which is fine, except that you're marrying my daughter and I'm afraid that my grandchildren are gonna be little assholes.
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 21 hours
#62 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
    Originally posted by cranlsn
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Benoit's gesture across his OWN throat, where as Hassan drew the "cut" across Eugene's throat...as if to symbolize beheading him?

    If I'm correct, that's pretty distasteful. I'm not going to scream and wet myself or anything, but I can see where a good amount of folks would be offended.


So, making a throat slashing jesture, meaning "I AM GONNA KILL YOU or I AM GONNA FINISH YOU OFF" is okay as long as it's on your OWN throat, but on somebody elses, it's somehow offensive?

Where did the throat slash originate anyway? Why does it mean YOU ARE DONE? Certainly not because a guy is implying he will cut his OWN throat.

Its rediculous to cry foul at this, when its been perfectly okay for years now.

(edited by StaggerLee on 5.4.05 1626)
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 44 min.
Last activity: 41 min.
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#63 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.44
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    So, making a throat slashing jesture, meaning "I AM GONNA KILL YOU or I AM GONNA FINISH YOU OFF" is okay as long as its on your OWN thrat, but on somebody elses, its somehow offensive?

    Where did the throat slash originate anyway? Why does it mean YOU ARE DONE? Certainly not because a guy is implyin ghe will cut his OWN throat.

    Its rediculous to cry foul at this, when its been perfectly okay for years now.
You know what's NOT okay...failing to use apostrophes and making a near-world record amount of typos.



When it seems like the whole world is full of idiots,
maybe your standards are a bit high.
- Guru Zim
CRZ
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 hour
#64 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
"Its rediculous to cry foul at this, when its been perfectly okay for years now."

Its rediculous to pretend that Hassan the "I'm not a terrorist (but really I am ;))" character doing a decapitation pantomime to somebody else, a totally uncommon gesture in wrestling rings, is no different than Chris Benoit doing the throat cut, a common physical gesture in and out of wrestling. You're deluding yourself b-b-b-bigtime if you don't think there's a connection in why Hassan of all people suddenly started doing it.
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 21 hours
#65 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
Sorry for the horrible post CRZ. I dont always proof read when I post, which I am assuming is evident.

JustinShapiro, what does the throat slash jesture mean? The one that Benoit does?

I really see no difference in the jestures, just how they are percieved due to the person performing them.

Hassan IS a heel, so why WOULDNT he do something offensive to people? But, a jesture by Benoit that says "I am gonna kill you off" to me, is no different.

Sorry if I didn't make that more clear in my earlier post.

(edited by StaggerLee on 5.4.05 1634)

(edited by StaggerLee on 5.4.05 1635)
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 hours
AIM:  
#66 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Hassan IS a heel, so why WOULDNT he do something offensive to people? But, a jesture by Benoit that says "I am gonna kill you off" to me, is no different.

Because Hassan is supposed to be angry at how he & his fellow Arab Americans have been treated in this country post-9/11 (i.e. "they are all terrorists!"). Making the "slash the throat" to his opponents gesture just feeds the stereotype that he is railing against, and thus is inconsistent with his character (provided they haven't completely abandoned all pretenses of what he was originally).



asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1463 days
Last activity: 371 days
#67 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.99
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I really see no difference in the jestures, just how they are percieved due to the person performing them.


The difference is, we don't see grainy video of gap-toothed Canadians slashing hostages' throats on the news. When a wrestler in Arab garb does it, they are alluding to something very dark and very inappropriate (and they wonder why advertisers don't like the show).

That's why the jesture is different and you should of noticed it.



-- Asteroid Boy

Wrestling Noir


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


flairforthegold13
Kishke








Since: 1.5.03
From: Gainesville, FL.

Since last post: 2549 days
Last activity: 2536 days
AIM:  
#68 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.29
Well, I'd submit that it's entirely in Hassan's character. From day 1, Ross and Lawler have pushed that 'Hassan and Daivari don't represent all Arab-Americans, they have their own agenda.'

So, yeah, reading between the lines, they're supposed to be terrorists. They're playing the sympathy card, but really, they're evil nasty dirty foreigners bent on world domination. So, I don't mind the fact they do it from a character standpoint, I just think it's sick and the type of inflamatory gesture that will end up starting a riot.

Though hey, why not just have Hassan and Daivary hijack the WWE plane one night on Raw and have it reported that their headed straight to Titan Towers, that'll get the heat.

And as everyone has pointed, Benoit slashing his throat and saying it's over is one thing, Hassan mimicking decapitating an opponent is quite another.

Of course, it's also true that in sports, the slash the throat gesture is considered out of line in any form.
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 17 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
AIM:  
#69 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
Gesture, not jesture.



Willful ignorance of science is not commendable. Refusing to learn the difference between a credible source and a shill is criminally stupid.
JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

Since last post: 2326 days
Last activity: 2324 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#70 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.73

    Because Hassan is supposed to be angry at how he & his fellow Arab Americans have been treated in this country post-9/11 (i.e. "they are all terrorists!"). Making the "slash the throat" to his opponents gesture just feeds the stereotype that he is railing against, and thus is inconsistent with his character (provided they haven't completely abandoned all pretenses of what he was originally).


OR if you really want to split hairs it could be a statement that says, "Is THIS the thing that you see me as? Fine, I'll show you what you want to see when you see me", but that's me thinking in 3 dimensions.

(edited by Blanket Jackson on 6.4.05 0206)


"Meet the kite-eating tree you son of a bitch!"

Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 339 days
Last activity: 27 days
#71 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.92
Chris Benoit's gimmick is The Crippler. He's known as an excellent wrestler. He uses the throat-slashing gesture to tell the fans "I am about to do the Diving Headbutt" and then prepares to do the Diving Headbutt.

Muhammad Hassan's gimmick is the Angry Minority. He's mainly known JUST for his gimmick, so the throat-slashing gesture HE uses when he's about to use the Camel Clutch (to signify that he's about to do the move) seems to get more of a backlash.

The reason is basically context. Benoit's all about wrestling, so everyone's all "OMFG BENOIT~!" Hassan's all gimmick, so whatever he does is magnified by that gimmick so everyone's all "OMFG HASSAN SUXORS~!"



DVDs; Blog

asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1463 days
Last activity: 371 days
#72 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.99
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    Gesture, not jesture.


Also, "should have" not "should of." God I hate that one.



-- Asteroid Boy

Wrestling Noir


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


The Vile1
Lap cheong








Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 2047 days
Last activity: 1778 days
#73 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.49
    Originally posted by flairforthegold13
    So, yeah, reading between the lines, they're supposed to be terrorists. They're playing the sympathy card, but really, they're evil nasty dirty foreigners bent on world domination.


Even though the angle has established that they are "ARAB-AMERICANS" that were born and raised in the US. They are NOT foreigners.

And seeing as to how that Hassan's gesture is in reference to Arab/Muslam terrorists that cut the throats and behead hostages on video and Benoit's is not...I find it pretty offensive. But this is WWE, when ever there has been a line of good taste or obsenity to cross, they will cross it. And they do it just for the sake of crossing it.




"Don't compare my arm...to your cheap arm!"
-Edward Elric
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 21 hours
#74 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
Okay, I am sorry I even brought it up. I just do not find it terribly offensive.

On the same line of logic then, is naming his move the camel clutch offensive as well? I mean, it is a stereotype that all Arabs ride camels.
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 44 min.
Last activity: 41 min.
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#75 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.44
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Okay, I am sorry I even brought it up. I just do not find it terribly offensive.
You've said this three times! We get it! Maybe you're unaware, but the NFL banned this gesture back in *1999* so apparently it's been offending people who aren't you for quite some time!

    On the same line of logic then, is naming his move the camel clutch offensive as well?
Well, gee, the move has been called "the camel clutch" for...what, decades? Are you really so ignorant that you don't know this? (Don't answer that.)

    I mean, it is a stereotype that all Arabs ride camels.
And you end with a troll. Delightful. PLEASE STOP POSTING



When it seems like the whole world is full of idiots,
maybe your standards are a bit high.
- Guru Zim
CRZ
GRL
Frankfurter








Since: 13.7.02
From: Austin

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#76 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.44
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson

      Because Hassan is supposed to be angry at how he & his fellow Arab Americans have been treated in this country post-9/11 (i.e. "they are all terrorists!"). Making the "slash the throat" to his opponents gesture just feeds the stereotype that he is railing against, and thus is inconsistent with his character (provided they haven't completely abandoned all pretenses of what he was originally).


    OR if you really want to split hairs it could be a statement that says, "Is THIS the thing that you see me as? Fine, I'll show you what you want to see when you see me", but that's me thinking in 3 dimensions.

    (edited by Blanket Jackson on 6.4.05 0206)



Sweet lord, THANK YOU. That's precisely how I interpret it. It's Hassan saying, "You know what, you're going to continue booing me and viewing me in this light anyway, and I'm fed up, so I'm going to kick some asses and I'm going to act like you think I should anyway, because there's no use getting through to you people anymore!"

For THAT reason alone, I am not offended by the gesture, but instead am fascinated even more by the character because of the above.




"Maybe I'm getting off topic, but this thread already sucks, so I don't feel bad about it. " -LotusMegami


"The only way TV Gangrel could change is if Real Gangrel changed." -Filipino Elvis
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 2021 days
Last activity: 1955 days
#77 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58
That is a LOT of reading to be doing for a WWE character. If this were a smarter company I'd be willing to consider it as a possibility, but given the ham-handed way they've turned Hassan from a thoughtful yet upset citizen to ranting lunatic, I'd say that's not the intention at all. It's simply yet another way to pour on the cheap heat, and yes, it's incredibly distasteful. Even if it WERE done for the motivations ascribed to it above, it's still far too touchy a motif to be messing around with. The action calls up images and events that are fresh, some that have happened within the last twelve months. Even if some people-or a majority, even-aren't offended by it, there are those that will be. And, in the end, it always pays a little to think of the people who may have been affected by the brutalities of the Iraq situation. Imagine you're a member of one of the murdered hostages' families, imagine seeing that gesture pantomimed as part of a supposed entertainment show. Human decency should outweigh any factor that would possibly motivate such an on-air character choice-whether it be simple cheap heat generation, or something more cerebral, it's a small, unnecessary part of the performance that nonetheless could cause great upset to some people watching.



"That Squirrel Can Waterski!"

asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1463 days
Last activity: 371 days
#78 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.99
What OSH said. GRL, you're giving them way too much credit.



-- Asteroid Boy

Wrestling Noir


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 486 days
Last activity: 446 days
#79 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.12
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    And, in the end, it always pays a little to think of the people who may have been affected by the brutalities of the Iraq situation. Imagine you're a member of one of the murdered hostages' families, imagine seeing that gesture pantomimed as part of a supposed entertainment show.

"Think of the hypothetical people, even though I can't name any off the top of my head. How would they feel?"

It's always easier to be offended on behalf of someone else, isn't it?



NOTE: The above post makes no sense. We apologize for the inconvenience.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 hour
#80 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
I'm personally offended by the scumminess of the company using real life beheadings to draw cheap heat for their midcard heel. If that helps!
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next
Thread rated: 4.52
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next
Thread ahead: who sings Billy Kidman's theme music??
Next thread: The WWE Cannot Add (Re: JBL's Reign)
Previous thread: Next TNA PPV = Stipulations-Mania~! (spoiler)
(5534 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
Written largely to be used as the IWS' Wikipedia entry which accounts for the use of wrestler's real names. I fundamentally refuse to break kayfabe for masked wrestlers though. We will see how long the Wikipedia entry lasts before it gets vandalized.
Related threads: WrestleMania 21 Q'n'D Results - Wrestlemania XXI Predictions - Looking for a bar to watch WM21 in Phoenix area - More...
The W - Pro Wrestling - WrestleMania 21: Discuss (Page 4)Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.4 seconds.