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The W - Current Events & Politics - SUV Tax breaks (Page 2)
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DMC
Liverwurst








Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3412 days
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#21 Posted on
The point is Moe that I don't think this is necessairly a political-based issue. I haven't seen any stats on it, but it seems you have people on both sides of the SUV issue from all ends of the political spectrum.

DMC



"It's too bad that all these things, can only happen in my dreams. Only in dreams, in beautiful dreams." -Roy Orbison
Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 19 days
#22 Posted on

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    Not to mention the fact that we've got, by the most generous estimates, about thirty days worth of oil up there anyway.



To paraphrase Mister Spock: "If we go by the book, days would seem like years"




Maiden RULES!!!
calvinh0560
Boudin rouge








Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

Since last post: 497 days
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
So the government can't use racial profiling because we can't assume that Middle Eastern men are terrorist be we can assume that because we buy oil from the Middle East that money is going straight into the hands of terrorist. Boy all this liberal thinking is making my head hurt.
Enojado Viento
Potato korv








Since: 12.3.02
From: Your Grocer's Freezer, NC

Since last post: 658 days
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#24 Posted on

    Originally posted by calvinh0560
    So the government can't use racial profiling because we can't assume that Middle Eastern men are terrorist be we can assume that because we buy oil from the Middle East that money is going straight into the hands of terrorist. Boy all this liberal thinking is making my head hurt.


. . .well yeah. Some might be going into the hands of brutal Latin American dictators. Let's not limit ourselves.

And if smoking pot supports terrorism, and driving an SUV supports terrorism. . .well, what if you're a weed smoking SUV driver? That's GOTTA put you on Al Qaeda's honor roll. Or at least enough to get the mug and handbag set.





-LS

"Yeah, well, the movie lied."
Jakegnosis
Morcilla








Since: 26.7.02
From: Maine

Since last post: 2798 days
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.91
I think SUVs are shit, personally, at least these days. Most of these yuppie assholes that love them so and talk about how rugged they are will never, ever, take the damn thing off the road, which was, once upon a time, the entire point of SUVs. Of course, Mercedes fucking Benz didn't make SUVs back then. They used to have a purpose other than compensating for a tiny cock and keeping up with the Joneses. I grew up in backwoods Maine, where a lot of guys would drive a regular car for work and errands, and have a tricked out SUV or truck in the garage for four-wheeling fun. That was originally the entire fucking point. It's a big-ass, 4WD monster that's built for going off of paved roads. And in that capacity, it rules.

Nowadays, people just drive them like they're Camrys. It's just a trendy, status symbol, "mine is bigger than yours" pile of grade-A bullshit. Who the hell is going to take a Lexus out in the woods with some beer and the boys for an afternoon of four-wheeling goodness? No one. It's a useless vehicle. Minivans have more space, sedans are just as safe in a crash and a Subaru is better in the snow. There is no reason to drive an SUV on the goddamn highway.

I also hate the damn things because I can never see my fucking car in the grocery store parking lot because of all the Ford Iwishihadabiggerdickpeditions. Bastards.

I drive a Toyota Celica All-Trac Turbo, which gets great mileage, rules in the snow and hauls ass, so fuck all y'all.



Moo hoo ha ha.

Rangers lead the way
drjayphd
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

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#26 Posted on
All I'm gonna say is if I'm in a freakin' Saturn and I'm passing YOU, you might want to rethink your choice of transportation. Get what you're going to USE.

And about Lexus and Mercedes making SUV's: Ever watch Cribs? Notice who has them? Athletes, especially basketball players, are the ONLY ones who could possibly justify them making SUV's (they're too big/tall to fit in normal cars). Besides, can you not just upgrade the fuck out of an Expedition?

My parents had a Grand Cherokee. Got totalled this past summer. If the driver was in my car, she wouldn't have walked away. And that car got through seven years of moving two kids in and out of college.

The last two paragraphs are the only possible reason I could see for anyone ever needing an SUV that wasn't going to take it off-road. I don't plan on buying one, just because I don't think I need one. I don't want one, either. Looks like I'm in good company here.



Today's Out-Of-Context Quote, Courtesy of GRL:

"Actually, I consider Nowinski, Victoria, Trish, Hurricane, and Bischoff to be the carrots in my HHH enema."
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#27 Posted on

    Originally posted by calvinh0560
    So the government can't use racial profiling because we can't assume that Middle Eastern men are terrorist be we can assume that because we buy oil from the Middle East that money is going straight into the hands of terrorist. Boy all this liberal thinking is making my head hurt.


Well, see, the overwhelming majority of our oil comes from Saudi Arabia. The money we spend on gasoline predominantly goes right back to the Saudi government. The government of Saudi Arabia isn't really shy about their support of terrorism - all the 9/11 hijackers save two were Saudis, they give fiscal rewards to the families of suicide bombers and their social policies make the Taliban look like Amsterdam. (Unless, of course, you ask "President" Bush - he'll tell you they're our "allies in peace".)

Now, the "smoke a joint" thing is pure bullshit. Not only does it disgust me to see the Bush administration use the death on 9/11 to pigeonhole through some propaganda to support their outdated, ineffective "war on drugs", (and, yes, Clinton *was* just as bad on this front), but the *only* drugs coming out of the Middle East are heroin and opium. Hardly the casual high school shit those commercials make it seem like, and I hardly think a heroin addict was going to see a commercial during the Super Bowl and say, gosh, when you put it like that, I'm goin' cold turkey!

(Wow, those were from the Super Bowl... Those commercials have been pissing me off for an entire year now.)



THE RESULTS ARE IN!

2002 Fuzzies: The Only Awards That Matter

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PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44

    Originally posted by Bizzle Izzle

      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      Not to mention the fact that we've got, by the most generous estimates, about thirty days worth of oil up there anyway.



    To paraphrase Mister Spock: "If we go by the book, days would seem like years"



Perhaps even more fitting...

Saavik: A lie?

Spock: An exaggeration.

[Or is it omission?]



Damn your eyes!
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 135 days
Last activity: 135 days
#29 Posted on
Even if it lasts for 50 years, it won't last for your children. Of course, after that runs out, we can strike down a few laws and start drilling more in Wyoming (of course, they've always been wishing we would drill more, because it brings in more money) and other parts of the midwest. But, like I said, the oil will run out.

-Jag

Of course, the more oil we spend, the less there is. So the price goes up. Then how many people will die for the control of what is left?

As stupid as it may sound, that's no legacy I'm willing to leave behind.



War is when you kill people with no names.
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#30 Posted on
Here is my question- you see ads everywhere denouncing SUVs, and anything else the environmentalists deem "unfit for our ecology." Millions upon millions of dollars are spend by environmentalist groups for lobbying purposes. In other words, there is a wealth of cash these people are using to simple complain about a situation.
Last time I checked, this was a Capitalist system, which ENCOURAGED competition.
Instead of spending the millions they do "informing" us that we are evil for purchasing gas-guzzlers, why are these people not starting car companies of their own? Why are they not DEVELOPING and MARKETING the products that they feel would not only serve our needs and wants just as well, but protect the environment? Why AREN'T they developing an all-solar car that does not require ANY oil drilling?
It is not like they do not have the money to pursue these things. And I would even be willing to bet that they could do it to.
I guess it is just easier to complain about things instead of using your resources to effect real change. This reason is why environmentalists will never be taken seriously by the mainstream. Produce a viable alternative, and THEN preach the evils of the SUV, and you will have my full support. Until then, environmentalists are nothing more than a bunch of whiners seeking attention to me....



Trees are for huggin'!
My attempt at a webpage


After a millineum, Keeper will return to save us all...
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1206 days
Last activity: 1003 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    Instead of spending the millions they do "informing" us that we are evil for purchasing gas-guzzlers, why are these people not starting car companies of their own? Why are they not DEVELOPING and MARKETING the products that they feel would not only serve our needs and wants just as well, but protect the environment? Why AREN'T they developing an all-solar car that does not require ANY oil drilling?


Because it's easier to bitch than it is to lead...



"Present day writers, especially of the Socilaist school of thought- base their various theories upon one common hypothesis: They divide mankind into two parts. People in general- with the exception of the writer himself- from the first group. The writer, all alone, forms the second and most impportant group. Surely ths is the weirderst and most conceited notion that ever entered a human brain!"
- Frederic Bastiat, The Law, 1850
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
There are plenty of viable alternatives already out there, and there could easily be more with very little effort by the auto companies. And starting a whole freakin' auto company takes a little more money than you seem to think the environmental lobby and Leonardo DiCaprio have on hand.

And these are commercials that are trying to convince people not to buy one product, and instead buy another. Last time I checked, that was marketing.

The biggest incentive to get people to buy cars that use less gas is, of course, to have higher gas prices. But the U.S. subsidizes the oil industry (and gas-guzzling cars, Jr. just tripled the exemption) to such extents that gas is kept cheap enough that it doesn't matter that much. The problem is that $3.00/gallon gas won't be good for anyone in the short term, especially if their aren't enough alternatives out there (I'm now thinking less about SUV's and more about long distance trucking as opposed to rail or water transport). It's a case of short-term loss and long-term gain.

Does anyone think that the men who stormed the beaches at Normandy to PROTECT THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE would then sacrifice THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE just because some leftists say we are wrong to buy oil from the Arabs? To anyone not familiar with America, WE INVENTED the automobile! BIG and FAST cars are an American tradition!!! Why should ANY OF US give up our way of life? I've got a beat up Dodge Charger in my parents back yard just waiting for me to have enough money to restore it with a 426. You KNOW that's gonna guzzle the gas. And so what? Should I feel bad because I don't throw it out and buy some piece of shit mini car that gets a thousand miles to the gallon and has no Zero to Sixty rating because it can't even reach 60? Big fast and LOUD cars ARE America. It is part of who we are. Rather than piss all over 100 years of automotive tradition because of arab oil, we should get the oil we already have in Alaska.

I can think of nothing else that proves my point so eloquently. I guess we're really just on very different pages when it comes to what America is all about.

Why should ANY of US give up our way of life? Because I would rather not drive an SUV in order to preserve our way of life rather than have to (at the very best) give a bunch of America-hating fascists billions of dollars to fund fund terrorism in order to preserve it.

I'm not opposed to drilling in Alaska personally, if the need arises. But a) as Jag pointed out, no matter how much oil is there, it's ultimately a finite, short-term solution and b) I'd really like to at least try to make easy changes in our lifestyle first. It's like tapping the kids college fund to pay the electric bill. Sure, you can't have the electicity shut off, but wouldn't you at least get some florescent light bulbs and maybe try not to use the dryer so much first?

(edited by MoeGates on 23.1.03 1051)

It seems that I am - in no particular order - Zack Morris, John Adams, a Siren, Aphrodite, Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel, Amy-Wynn Pastor, Hydrogen, Spider-Man, and Boston.
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44
Millions for defense, but not one penny for tribute.

Until the nanny-state comes in, bans SUVs and forcibly takes over the auto industry, I'll drive anything I damned well please.

This is like saying "No, Junior, you can't take lunch money to school; you're only going to feed the bullies."



Damn your eyes!
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
I expect to see you on the front lines then, personally defending your right to drive whatever you damn well please. "Millions for defense, but not one penny for tribute?" Fine. Put your ass where your mouth is, and maybe I'll have some respect for your position.



It seems that I am - in no particular order - Zack Morris, John Adams, a Siren, Aphrodite, Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel, Amy-Wynn Pastor, Hydrogen, Spider-Man, and Boston.
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44
I work for a living, and thus contribute my share to the millions. My ass already is where my mouth is.

(Edit: Though, for the record, I voluntarily drive a Saturn, manual transmission, that gets on average 35 miles per gallon).

(edited by PalpatineW on 25.1.03 0144)


Damn your eyes!
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 108 days
Last activity: 31 days
#36 Posted on
* Is anybody else still waiting for MoeGates to list his sacrifices like I am?

* I thought one of the primary things that is great about this country is freedom. Freedom to make choices. If MoeGates doesn't want to own a SUV, great! If someone else wants to drive an SUV, that's great too. It's a free country, as the old saying goes. I personally don't own a SUV, and probably never will. But I sure don't want somebody else telling me what I can and can't own.

* I think this country will make sacrifices IF asked. Our country has not asked anybody to make any sacrifices yet. However, they won't make sacrifices if MoeGates, or DiCrapio, or Huffington, or any other individual asks. Nothing gives them the right to ask for sacrifices. I think you should make sacrifices only when necessary, not just for the sake of making sacrifices. (When sacrifices where made in the past, it was because we had to, not because we wanted to).

* This is an honest question, because I really don't know the answer. I've seen the 30 day number thrown around for that oil supply in Alaska. If that number is true, why would an oil company even waste their time setting up and drilling there? It couldn't be profitable, could it? Do the oil companies think there is more oil there, or is setting up a drilling operation cheaper than I imagine?
astrobstrd
Bockwurst








Since: 13.3.02
From: Loveland, OH

Since last post: 2517 days
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#37 Posted on

    Originally posted by ges7184


    * This is an honest question, because I really don't know the answer. I've seen the 30 day number thrown around for that oil supply in Alaska. If that number is true, why would an oil company even waste their time setting up and drilling there? It couldn't be profitable, could it? Do the oil companies think there is more oil there, or is setting up a drilling operation cheaper than I imagine?



Because 30 days worth of oil is worth a lot of fucking money. More money than setting it up would cost. Much more. America is like a crack whore for oil. If we know that we can get 30 days worth as backup, for when our high-priced dealer might balk on us, we just think about how sweet those 30 days will be, and not what will come after.



Ph-nglui mgwl'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1206 days
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Does anybody really think the 30 day number is accurate? Why would any oil company worht their salt invest millions or even billions of dollas for such a miniscule output?



"Present day writers, especially of the Socilaist school of thought- base their various theories upon one common hypothesis: They divide mankind into two parts. People in general- with the exception of the writer himself- from the first group. The writer, all alone, forms the second and most impportant group. Surely ths is the weirderst and most conceited notion that ever entered a human brain!"
- Frederic Bastiat, The Law, 1850
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#39 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis
    Does anybody really think the 30 day number is accurate? Why would any oil company worht their salt invest millions or even billions of dollas for such a miniscule output?
Run "How much oil is in Alaska?" (or ANWR) through Google and you'll get a myriad of opinions.

Looking really quickly, the consensus seems to be that no one will know for sure until they drill. I didn't see a thirty-day supply quoted anywhere, but again I didn't look too far beyond the first page of links.



©CRZ™
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 1 day
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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
* Is anybody else still waiting for MoeGates to list his sacrifices like I am?

Well, I don't even have a car, so as long as we're talking about oil dependency and such I'm ahead of the game there. I'm not going to tell you I lost an arm in Vietnam or anything.

I thought one of the primary things that is great about this country is freedom. Freedom to make choices. If MoeGates doesn't want to own a SUV, great! If someone else wants to drive an SUV, that's great too. It's a free country, as the old saying goes. I personally don't own a SUV, and probably never will. But I sure don't want somebody else telling me what I can and can't own.

Freedom comes with choices and repercussions. Own whatever you want. But realize that owning whatever you want has repercussions for this country. Have your cake, or eat your cake, I don't care. But don't pretend you can have it all just because you think it's your God-given right as an American.

I think this country will make sacrifices IF asked. Our country has not asked anybody to make any sacrifices yet. However, they won't make sacrifices if MoeGates, or DiCrapio, or Huffington, or any other individual asks. Nothing gives them the right to ask for sacrifices. I think you should make sacrifices only when necessary, not just for the sake of making sacrifices. (When sacrifices where made in the past, it was because we had to, not because we wanted to).

This administration is asking for sacrifices. They're asking us to go to war. They're asking us to drill in a wildlife refugee. They're asking us to ignore terroism-inducing hate from our "allies," and tolerate all that it brings. They're asking us to forgo our civil rights. They just aren't asking us to make any sacrifices that affect YOUR life in any direct way, unless you happen to be in the army, or an immigrant from Pakistan, or an Alakan moose. But our inability to get off the junk will most definitely affect our lives indirectly in the long-term, and it's a lot better to nip this in the bud here.

I work for a living, and thus contribute my share to the millions. My ass already is where my mouth is.

(Edit: Though, for the record, I voluntarily drive a Saturn, manual transmission, that gets on average 35 miles per gallon).


I also will only drive a stick. Yeah manual!

One more point on the "millions." What do you think the million or dollars we give terrorism-sponsoring regimes for their oil is? What do you think the millions of dollars in military equipment we give to people who say every day OPENLY how much God hates us? Defense? No, it's tribute. We pay millions of dollars in tribute to despotic, evil, regimes in order to make sure that they let us maintain our way of life. We don't fight wars for it. We pay tribute for it. And I, for one, would rather not. "Millions for defense but not one penny for tribute" indeed.




It seems that I am - in no particular order - Zack Morris, John Adams, a Siren, Aphrodite, Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel, Amy-Wynn Pastor, Hydrogen, Spider-Man, and Boston.
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Maybe no one else will be so annoyed by this, but sometimes you catch a news headline and you're worried. Tonight I was on msnbc and fox and caught the same story. The thread title was the story title on Fox. http://www.foxnews.
- wmatistic, Dangerous Meds (2008)
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