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The W - Movies & TV - Survivor: Heroes vs. Villains finale
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Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 12 hours
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
Awesome, my pre-season favourite (after Cirie) actually won. I figured that it would come down to Parvati or Sandra no matter who their third was (I doubt the heroes would've voted for mopey Colby), and Sandra ended up pulling it out. As soon as they aired the footage of Russell saying, "Sandra is easy to beat," I knew it was coming. Really, Russell? The straight-forward mother of two with the soldier husband isn't going to get ANY votes? Nice logic.

I love that as much as Survivor has pushed Russell and promoted him over the last couple of years, the show never fails to make him look like the moron that he is at every opportunity. And then Russell HIMSELF actually has the gall to suggest that 'a flaw in the game' is the reason why he keeps losing. Hilarious. If ever a moment summed up his delusion, that was it.

A little disappointed in Parvati trying to still make a case for herself as the best player ever. Sandra is 2-for-2. End of discussion. All hail Queen Diaz-Twine.

(edited by Big Bad on 16.5.10 2345)
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TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 21 days
Last activity: 18 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.85
That final jury showdown was some incredibly satisfying television, watching Russell's face as person after person after person called out his utter lack of social game.

I went into the final show figuring that Parvati would take it, on the argument that she was making eliminations happen all along, while Sandra never could engineer an overthrow of the Parvati-Russell-Danielle group. But you have to respect the argument to the Heroes on the jury that Sandra was reaching out to them all along, and Parvati and Russell were snuffing their torches. And Sandra was the one who survived to the end.

Burning the hat was the cherry on top.



Stefonics
Bockwurst








Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 9 min.
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.45
For all of his insane behavior and idiotic tactics, Russell has a point. There really is something seriously flawed in the process if the person who does absolutely nothing throughout her run(s) on the show wins. She is the definition of mediocre and got rewarded for it twice.



"What you don't understand, you can make mean anything."
-Palahniuk
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As young as
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Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

Since last post: 6 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.30


Yeah, but I won my Survivor pool with Sandra, so I am A-OK with the results!




Zack Greinke - 2009 Cy Young Winner!!
dunkndollaz
Banger








Since: 3.1.02
From: Northern NJ

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 20 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.24
Sandra won it at the Final Tribal Council when the Heroes finally figured out that Sandra had been telling them the truth all along about her hatred for Russell so they all voted for her. Sandra survived the Boston Rob purge and then outlasted the idiotic heroes. Parvati got painted with the Russell brush and Russell was the latest victim of hurt feelings.

As soon as I can figure out how to make my mortgage pay itself, I'll go win the $1m



I think my kids are trying to kill me

Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 9 min.
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.73
Yeah, I don't get it either. Sandra definitely didn't outplay Russell -- she tried to get him off and failed repeatedly. Parvati outplayed Russell, simply because he tried to get *her* off repeatedly and didn't. Russell's failure was due to Parvati winning immunity repeatedly; Sandra's failure was due to Russell playing a better overall game with the heroes.

The heroes were fooled. It's human nature to not like the person that makes a fool out of you.

Russell is right -- he played the game the way it's historically been played. The only problem is, the game has been morphed the last few years into "get to the end by riding coattails and not pissing people off." Seriously, Sandra did absolutely nothing in terms of gameplay other than not vote people out.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 12 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
Sandra is in no way a 'coattail-rider' in the way that other recent finalists (Mick in Samoa, Suzie in Gabon, Cassandra in Fiji, etc.) have been.


    For all of his insane behavior and idiotic tactics, Russell has a point. There really is something seriously flawed in the process if the person who does absolutely nothing throughout her run(s) on the show wins. She is the definition of mediocre and got rewarded for it twice.


How does this make any sense? There are no hard and fast rules to Survivor. You don't need to win immunity challenges in order to 'qualify' as a winner, nor do you need to find the most hidden immunity idols or have the most confessional bragging about how great you are. If anything, Sandra not winning any challenges makes her wins even more impressive --- she's been a potential target in literally every tribal council she's ever attended (except for the one this year when she had the hidden idol) yet she has only accumulated THREE total votes against her over two seasons. That's impressive.

Big moves Sandra made this season....

* Getting Russell to turn on Coach. This summarizes why Sandra is better than Russell right here --- all she had to do was mention 'Oh, Coach was talking about voting against you' and Russell is suddenly all gung-ho about taking out Coach rather than Sandra or Courtney (the remaining members of the Boston Rob alliance).

* Telling the heroes that the women's alliance in the villain tribe was a fable. Unfortunately, the heroes didn't believe this information or use it to their best advantage.

* Making it to the end as a former winner, which Parvati should also be commended for. In the first All-Star season, the former winners were picked off early solely due to their previous victories. This season, Tom was targeted because he had won before. Even with a $1 million cheque to her name already, Sandra was still able to avoid being targeted.

* Finding the hidden immunity idol. Though she didn't need it herself, she kept it away from others who might've shake the game up with it. And since Sandra kept quiet about finding it, it allowed Rupert to try his (successful) 'rock in the pocket' trick that completely fooled Russell and led to Candice's ouster.

* And finally, getting to the end with everyone's respect. As much as Sandra is promoted as being 'lippy' or 'in-your-face,' I think she's anything but. Unlike Russell, she saves her belittling of other players for her confessionals. (The exception was Russell, but he was so hated that the other players probably enjoyed it.)


    Russell is right -- he played the game the way it's historically been played. The only problem is, the game has been morphed the last few years into "get to the end by riding coattails and not pissing people off."


This is like saying, "The problem with baseball is that it's morphed into 'just score more runs than the other team.' " Getting to the end and having a good relationship with the jury IS THE ENTIRE GAME. And even then, you can still win without a good relationship with the jury just as long as the person next to you has an even worse one (see, Jenna over Matt in Survivor Amazon, Chris over Twila in Vanuatu, Brian over Clay in Thailand, Rich over Kelly in the very first season, etc.) Russell breaks alliances for no reason, basically outright threatens people with elimination if they don't vote his way. He's the perfect sucker to take to the end since he'll never win.
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 9 min.
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.73
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Sandra is in no way a 'coattail-rider' in the way that other recent finalists (Mick in Samoa, Suzie in Gabon, Cassandra in Fiji, etc.) have been.


      For all of his insane behavior and idiotic tactics, Russell has a point. There really is something seriously flawed in the process if the person who does absolutely nothing throughout her run(s) on the show wins. She is the definition of mediocre and got rewarded for it twice.


    How does this make any sense? There are no hard and fast rules to Survivor. You don't need to win immunity challenges in order to 'qualify' as a winner, nor do you need to find the most hidden immunity idols or have the most confessional bragging about how great you are. If anything, Sandra not winning any challenges makes her wins even more impressive --- she's been a potential target in literally every tribal council she's ever attended (except for the one this year when she had the hidden idol) yet she has only accumulated THREE total votes against her over two seasons. That's impressive.

    Big moves Sandra made this season....

    * Getting Russell to turn on Coach. This summarizes why Sandra is better than Russell right here --- all she had to do was mention 'Oh, Coach was talking about voting against you' and Russell is suddenly all gung-ho about taking out Coach rather than Sandra or Courtney (the remaining members of the Boston Rob alliance).

    * Telling the heroes that the women's alliance in the villain tribe was a fable. Unfortunately, the heroes didn't believe this information or use it to their best advantage.

    * Making it to the end as a former winner, which Parvati should also be commended for. In the first All-Star season, the former winners were picked off early solely due to their previous victories. This season, Tom was targeted because he had won before. Even with a $1 million cheque to her name already, Sandra was still able to avoid being targeted.

    * Finding the hidden immunity idol. Though she didn't need it herself, she kept it away from others who might've shake the game up with it. And since Sandra kept quiet about finding it, it allowed Rupert to try his (successful) 'rock in the pocket' trick that completely fooled Russell and led to Candice's ouster.

    * And finally, getting to the end with everyone's respect. As much as Sandra is promoted as being 'lippy' or 'in-your-face,' I think she's anything but. Unlike Russell, she saves her belittling of other players for her confessionals. (The exception was Russell, but he was so hated that the other players probably enjoyed it.)


      Russell is right -- he played the game the way it's historically been played. The only problem is, the game has been morphed the last few years into "get to the end by riding coattails and not pissing people off."


    This is like saying, "The problem with baseball is that it's morphed into 'just score more runs than the other team.' " Getting to the end and having a good relationship with the jury IS THE ENTIRE GAME. And even then, you can still win without a good relationship with the jury just as long as the person next to you has an even worse one (see, Jenna over Matt in Survivor Amazon, Chris over Twila in Vanuatu, Brian over Clay in Thailand, Rich over Kelly in the very first season, etc.) Russell breaks alliances for no reason, basically outright threatens people with elimination if they don't vote his way. He's the perfect sucker to take to the end since he'll never win.


I feel that -- in past seasons -- people understood and respected the game play a lot more than they do now. Russell outwitted each and every hero who made it to the merge; Sandra did not. In essence, they went head to head on each of those. She told them, "He's evil." He told them, "I'm your friend, believe in me." He won those individual battles. He outwitted every single one of the heroes.

I think where he differs slightly is that he's more proactive than reactive. I think some people have more of a problem when they're actively snookered than if someone just takes advantage of an opportunty. He went *looking* for opportunities.

All in all, I think it's sour grapes. He had more of a hand in voting out every single person than Sandra did. For the most part, when he wanted someone gone -- they were gone. And they held a grudge. Past seasons, they were at least able to respect when they got voted out. Lately, not so much.
Stansbury Alum
Cotto








Since: 18.5.07

Since last post: 39 days
Last activity: 7 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
Winning a jury vote is a critical strategic part of the game. Russell considers that a 'flaw', but it's a big reason he makes it to the end. Toward the end of the game, everyone had caught on to Russell's antics -- so why was there never a move to eliminate him? Because everyone wanted to have Russell with them at the end. They recognized he wouldn't get any votes. Without that incentive, it is far more likely that he would be part of the jury rather than sitting in front of it.
Loosie
Boudin rouge








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kitchener, Ontario

Since last post: 1020 days
Last activity: 902 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.18
I think Russell slipped something on the finale show. When it was down to the final three and he had his 'confessional time' he was talking about how 'last time he took players to the final three he though he could beat'. And he then said "But I didn't." He shouldn't have known that he didn't win since the live reunion show (and vote reveal) did't happen until after he was back from doing Heroes vs. Villians. That tells me that either they told him before he went back to the 'island'. Or they reveal it to them before coming abck to the states.

I just though it was interesting and maybe something the editors missed. Or I just misheard him.

(edited by Loosie on 18.5.10 1415)


Loosie.
Your friendly nieghbourhood Canadian.


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Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 12 hours
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
It's possible he knew he had lost after talking to some of the other Samoa jury members afterwards, or maybe the producers told him the result to not keep him in suspense while he was out playing the game again. (Which would explain why Russell already looked pissed as the Samoa reunion show began.)
cfgb
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Ottawa, Ontario

Since last post: 42 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.74
    Originally posted by Loosie
    I think Russell slipped something on the finale show. When it was down to the final three and he had his 'confessional time' he was talking about how 'last time he took players to the final three he though he could beat'. And he then said "But I didn't." He shouldn't have known that he didn't win since the live reunion show (and vote reveal) did't happen until after he was back from doing Heroes vs. Villians. That tells me that either they told him before he went back to the 'island'. Or they reveal it to them before coming abck to the states.

    I just though it was interesting and maybe something the editors missed. Or I just misheard him.

    (edited by Loosie on 18.5.10 1415)



The camera had panned away to an island shot when he said "but I didn't". I guarantee they spliced in something else, you SAW his reaction at the Samoa finale, he thought he had it in the bag.

That aside, this past season was fantastic, one of the best ever. And anyone who feels Sandra was a coat tail rider wasn't watching the same game I was. She was repeatedly in Russell's face and STILL was never made a target, which is very un-Russell. Sucks in challenges does NOT = coat tail rider. Who did she hide behind and ride to the end? Both Parvati and Russell had no use for her. She wasn't in their alliance, and survived anyway. She had nobody on her side from the minute Rob was sent home. This isn't keeping Suzie Smith around because she's utterly useless, NOBODY wanted Sandra around until Russell decided at final 4 she was a good person to take to the end.

What I would have been interested to see is whether or not Jerri could have won the game had Russell done the right thing and booted Parv at 4.

I have been harsh on Colby all year, but I am going to ease up after hearing his full confessional to being booted on CBS.com. He said that when he does things in life, they're things he's proud of, and on many days he wasn't proud of this game. It has turned ugly, with nothing but strategy, backstabbing, and lying. I don't blame him, if you go back and watch Australia, it was a VERY different game, and he's right. It's great TV now though, and I would just recommend to Colby that if he's invited back for Survivor 25: Runners Up vs. Winners, that he sit this one out.



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