Originally posted by Kawshenor HHH's heel turn in the "Who ran over Austin?" thing.
Wasn't HHH already heel?
I'd say Taker's heel turn early last year was pretty surprising, and even Goldberg's heel turn in early 2000-though it didn't have much of an effect. And I didn't see the Stephanie heel turn at Armegeddon '99 coming either.
Originally posted by Kawshenor HHH's heel turn in the "Who ran over Austin?" thing.
Wasn't HHH already heel?.
That heel turn happened after Austin had returned in late 2000 and was looking for the driver. Hunter was a babyface at that point, fresh off of his feud with Kurt Angle (which ended up drastically changing WWF, and not for the better).
Austin was wrestling Rikishi and Kurt Angle in a handicap match. Hunter, right before the match, said to Austin: "Remember, don't trust anybody". Most people chalked that up to Hunter warning Austin to be careful in his match. Well, Hunter ran down the ramp, cleared the ring of the heels, and then... whacked Austin in the face with a sledgehammer. Very few people saw it coming. I know I didn't.
I also didn't see Hunter's heel turn in July of 2002 coming either. I knew he was gonna' turn heel sooner or later, but had no idea he was gonna' pedigree Shawn Michaels right then and there.
Spring of 1999! Diamond Dallas Page had been battling Scott Steiner for a couple of months because Steiner was stalking Kimberly. At Superbrawl 9, Steiner had Page go face first into an exposed turnbuckle bolt, and then caused him to pass out from the Recliner.
Page took about 6 weeks off to recover from this beating. When he returned, he came back with an attitude and demanded not to be called the People's Champ any longer. It was COMPLETELY unexpected and strange considering WCW had spent about 2 and a half years pushing the shit out of a face Page and didn't really make a lot of sense. He wound up winning the title a couple weeks later which REALLY pushed the weirdness over the top since he wasn't remotely over due to the very strange turn a couple weeks earlier.
And now the most shocking...
I'll admit the Triple H admitting he was behind running over Austin sure shocked the shit out of me. I did not see it coming since he'd spent about 6 weeks slowly turning face, and earlier in the evening apparently completing it by reuniting with Degeneration X. HOWEVER, I'll go with...
Booker T when he came to the WWF. I know he'd been a heel early in his WCW career until about the time the nWo rolled into town, but after the singles push I didn't see it POSSIBLE to boo the man. He was everything GOOD about pro-wrestling. However, Vindictive Vince and the gang spent SO many years burying WCW that it came about that apparently WWF fans hate ANYTHING WCW and booed his ass until they turned him. It also turned out to be the most irritating turn I've had to experience. To this day, WCW hasn't recovered (and how can they when Jim Ross STILL on TV to this day makes statements about how terrible the "old Turner WCW" was.) and many of their stars are still turned heel because the fans have been programmed to hate them.
And I'll end with the dumbest...
Sting, Fall Brawl 1999. Was that really neccessary Eric? REALLY?
Back in the day, Andre the Giant turning on Hulk Hogan and siding with Bobby Heenan during Piper's Pit in '87 was pretty shocking. Same with Paul Orndorff turning on Hogan the year before. And then Randy Savage turning face to feud with the Honky Tonk Man was pretty surprising, given Savage's behavior as a heel up to that point. I remember Savage had already gotten crazy face reactions from the crowds but his turn still surprised me. Hell, every turn surprised me when I was 12.
Hulk Hogan turning heel and joining the nWo was jaw-dropping.
The Rock joining Vince McMahon as the Corporate Champion at Survivor Series Deadly Game in '98 was awesome. I don't remember if he was actually a full-fledged face at that point. I remember Rock was still a heel and a member of the Nation of Domination at Summerslam when he faced Triple H in a ladder match, but the months leading up to Survivor Series are a blank. Still, great swerve. The reaction Rock got on RAW the next night was awesome.
Stone Cold Steve Austin turning heel and joining Vince McMahon at WrestleMania X-7 was amazing. In my opinion, that set the stage for the most entertaining run Austin had in WWE as the sniveling, cowardly, hug-needing, guitar-strumming leader of the Alliance. I know most people have bad memories of the Invasion era, but I had a great time watching heel Austin every week.
"Strong words. Strong words from a strange man." - Kent Brockman
Originally posted by cfgbSting, Fall Brawl 1999. Was that really neccessary Eric? REALLY?
If I recall the timeline correctly, Eric Bischoff was ousted from power before Fall Brawl and Fall Brawl was the first show of the Bill Busch "era".
I'd go with Bret Hart turning heel in WWF. It was somewhat of a gradual thing but when he cut that bull**** tirade after the cage match on RAW, it was shocking to see ultra good guy Bret go off with profanity.
Also, when Sting walked out on WCW in War Games, that wasn't really a turn from face to heel but it was surprising because it was the first time Sting didn't trust everyone and get stabbed in the back.
Rock at Survivor Series 98 was good because Rock had never really turned face, people just started cheering him and they rolled with it and actually managed to get people to hate him again for a few months.
I was at the Survivor Series in 98, and along with the Rock, Shane McMahon joining Vince also had the people pretty shocked. If I remember correctly, Shane was battling with his dad all fall, even being demoted from announcer to ref at one point.
HHH turning on X-pac I think at Wrestlemania 15 was pretty surprising as was Chyna turning on HHH earlier that year.
I still remember though as a kid HBK turning on Marty Jannety had the kids at school talking for weeks.
Nikita Koloff face turn in October of '86: As shocking as Magnum's car accident, the most hated man in the company (hell, the year before, Flair had to work as a face because Koloff was so hated), saves Dusty Rhodes and becomes a face overnight.
Barry Windham turning on Lex Luger in April of '88: Tag Title defense where Windham turns on Luger at the end of a long TV match and joins the Horsemen, then participates in a vicious locker room beatdown on the 'mysterious' Midnight Rider when he tries to confront Windham after the match.
Manny Fernandez taking Paul Jones $50,000 briefcase and turning on the Boogie Woogie Man Jimmy Valiant in October of '86. Fernandez would win the tag titles with Rick Rude 2 months later while Valiant disappeared after winning a hair vs. hair match at Starrcade against Paul Jones.
Cubs, White Sox and Red Sox fans unite. Its time to overthrow the German Government and re-install our beloved Kaiser. Remember, Kaiser ='s World Series victories.
Hulk Hogan's nWo turn at Bash of the Beach was perfectly done. At the time, he had been away from the company for a bit and his value was starting to drop a bit. I was watching the PPV live and nearly fell out of my seat when he turned. Okay, maybe I kind of saw it coming about 5 seconds before he legdropped Savage, but a shock nonetheless.
The unfortunate thing is that we'll never see a heel (or face) turn done that effectively again. Hogan was really the only `untouchable' good-guy type that hadn't turned yet (well, in recent history; he was a heel early in his career). Thanks to the Russo era of shocking swerves, nothing will ever that suprising again.
Kain Interview: the first since he's been unmasked!!! Major changes to SummerShow main event!!! All this plus an interview with Kain in the latest Inside The Ropes!!!
Hogan's turn legitimately shocked me. That'd be the big one for me. Having been watching since the early days, I had still never seen Hogan as a heel (and before the 'net hadn't even heard of his early heel days in Florida) so this blew my mind.
"Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
I agree with the Bulldog, Hogan at "Bash at the Beach" shocked me!!! I mean, really shocked me. It was the ebst turn in history, IMO. But then again, the entire NWO angle probably was the best angle done, even though it evolved into a big heap of Wrestlecrap in the end. Actually some of the people turning on WCW to join NWO was cool. Scott Steiner turning on Rick at Superbrawl 98, was pretty cool. I didn't expect it, but that is when Big Poppa Pump was born.
Stephanie revealing she was in on the marriage all along was pretty cool. I just remember being really shocked and amazed that WWF had fooled me so well. I need to look back and find the details of that revelation.
HHH turning on DX to join the Corporation at WM15 was cool. I was completely shocked. That was a good turn because it came out of nowhere, yet when you thought about it, it made sense.
One of the most stupid turns was Nash on Nitro turning heel to lay down for the finger poke of hell. It was so badly timed. Nash finally broke Goldberg's streak, became the champ, and then just gives it all to Hogan? Someone he had been fueding with? It made no sense.
This turn didn't happen, but the night after WMX7 and the Rock/Austin rematch and Hunter running in would have been one of the best face turns in history if he had hit Austin with that sledgehammer. OMG, Austin would have had a face to challenge, since Rocky was leaving. It really, really would have been good, IMO. Plus Austin/HHH had history so it would have been natural. Miss chance for a great turn, or atleast a trip to tweener-ville.
January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
Originally posted by odessasteps Orndorff's turn was telegraphed for weeks (if not months).
For me, the thing with Orndorff's turn was that I had never seen anyone turn heel up to that point, so my adolescent brain saw the signs, but kept saying, "Paul and Hulk will patch up their differences."
The only turn in recent years I can think of where I was legitimately shocked was Hogan joining the NWO. Most other turns since then have at least had signs that they were coming.
I'm not old enough to remember seeing Andre or Orndorff when they happened, but I was blown away when the Big Boss Man refused Ted DiBiase's payoff on the Brother Love Show and gave the Million Dollar Belt back to Jake Roberts. Maybe it's because I was only 9 years old, but I didn't see that one coming in the least.
Shawn Michaels turning on Janetty and putting him through the barber shop window. It looked like Michaels was staying face but then WHAM! Didn't see that one coming at all. Also, Goldust's heel turn (when he became 'Forever Unchained') was surprising to me. Don't really know why, I just didn't see it coming.
RantWars runner-up. At least I beat Dave Shilling.
Mick Foley had a couple of surprising turns in early 1998. When he came out as Dude Love to break up the first ever Austin/Vince match on RAW (the one that broke Nitro's ratings winning streak), I was surprised that Foley was going heel again after such a successful face run.
Then, a couple of months later, after losing to Austin at Over the Edge (a legendary match btw), Mick comes out as 'himself' on RAW and is fired by Vince to huge heat from the crowd. Mick then shows up later in the show not to attack Vince, but instead to try and get back on his good side by becoming Mankind to attack the Undertaker. This set up Hell in the Cell, and the rest is history.
I don't think he's saying that the No Way Out that they returned at was the highest rated ppv, he's saying it was the best rating that No Way Out has ever done. Which i'm pretty sure is accurate, although not THAT great an accomplishment.