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15.9.14 0445
The W - Current Events & Politics - Strom Thurman - 100?!?!?!?!
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Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#1 Posted on
Happy Birthday Strom... glad to see you made the century mark.
On one hand... the elderly are sometimes wiser, and have a wider range of experience to draw upon, however, on the other hand-
Why is a 100 year old man STILL a Senator? I mean, damn... go fishing dude! You definitly earned it...




3 out of 5 Statisticians agree- Statistics are all bull$hit!
"Pool-Boy"

They won more than last year....
Promote this thread!
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#2 Posted on
When World War II ended, Strom Thurmond was 43 years old.

Remember two months or so ago when Walter Mondale was taking Paul Wellstone's place in the Minnesota Senator race, and the GOP spent every waking bit of energy calling him a dried-up old dinosaur who was way too old for the job? Me neither.



Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    Remember two months or so ago when Walter Mondale was taking Paul Wellstone's place in the Minnesota Senator race, and the GOP spent every waking bit of energy calling him a dried-up old dinosaur who was way too old for the job? Me neither.


Hey, the Dems have being saying that about Strom for how long. And the pathetic thing for them was that they still couldn't beat him.



LIBERAL- adj: abundant, incapable, self-serving, racist, confiscatory, welfare-loving, anti-liberty, scrooge-like, indulgent, lavish, unprincipled, closed-minded, philanthropic with other peoples money, big-government loving, selfish, uptight, unrealisitc, unenlightened, discriminatory, totalitarian, partial, strict, overpermissive, intolerant, biased, bigoted, prejudiced
-------Real-life experience
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 26 days
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#4 Posted on
That says a lot more about the people of the fine state (no, you aren't a country, that was settled 150 years ago) of South Carolina than the Democratic party.



Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#5 Posted on

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    That says a lot more about the people of the fine state (no, you aren't a country, that was settled 150 years ago) of South Carolina than the Democratic party.


Actually, that says a lot more about the system than it does about the people of SC or the Democratic party. Another good example of the systemic nature of the problem can be found in West Virginia where Bob Byrd will be a senator until he dies. Hell, I suspect that he is angling to be the first centenarian reelected to the Senate.

Any more, I'd argue that it is almost impossible to beat a multiple term senatorial incumbent without some pretty amazing circumstances. All of the incumbents who lost this year were either first termers or, like Max Cleland, caught in what will, God willing, be a unique situation. In many cases - see Indiana where they will have the same two senators, Dick Lugar and Evan Bayh, until Lugar retires or Bayh is tapped for VP or runs for President - the benefit of incumbency is such that you can call the race as soon as the polls close. Here in Michigan, the Republicans barely ran a candidate against Carl Levin despite some obvious vulnerabilities because they couldn't compete with the free publicity he was getting in his role as chair of the Armed Services committee and the local tv stations waited until approximately .000001 seconds after the polls closed to announce that Levin had been reelected.

Tim



"Verhoeven's _Starship Troopers_: Based on the back cover of the book by Robert Heinlein."
rabidzebra
Linguica








Since: 23.6.02
From: Charleston SC

Since last post: 2785 days
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#6 Posted on
    Originally posted by MoeGates
    That says a lot more about the people of the fine state of South Carolina than the Democratic party.
Oh my God you did not diss the MAN. When your senator can even come close to this man's life story you can diss my state. In the mean time shut your mouth and marvel that one man can achieve the following.
34 honorary degrees
Earned 5 battle stars and 18 medals, awards, and citations including the Bronze Star and French Croix de Guerre.
Ran for president as a third party canadiate and won three states.
Elected as a US Senator in 1954 as a WRITE IN CANDIDATE.
He has finally retired this year to his well earned rest.


(edited by rabidzebra on 6.12.02 1403)

Enough is Enough
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 26 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#7 Posted on
You know, Napolean got all sorts of medals and shit also, it doesn't mean he was a good guy. Max Cleland got three limbs amputated in Vietnam, and the people of Georgia felt perfectly fine dissing him. Hell, John McCain couldn't even win your state's primary over an army deserter.

Earned his rest? You've let the guy practically go into a coma on the job for his last term (and that's being generous).

Won three states as a third party candidate and was elected a Senator as a write in candidate? Do you forget he won those three states and the Senate race by running almost exclusively on a staunch segregationist platform? So again, I say that says more about the people of South Carolina (and the other two states) than Thurmond. I mean, the ones who could at least vote in 1954, which didn't include Black people. Which, if it were up to Strom, would still be the way it is today. Remember, his famous "filibuster" was against a civil rights (oh I'm sorry, "anti-states rights") bill.

As for the "entrentched incumbent" theory, that's more true of the House than the Senate. Chuck Schumer beat three-term incumbent Senator Al D'Amato in 98 here in New York, for one example.




Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#8 Posted on
I have to say that while his age may be an issue... there is a difference between him and Walter Mondale. Mondale has gone on record in his youth attacking people HIS AGE NOW for running for office. Mondale was not an incumbant. Mondale was a last minute replacement brought in for name recognition.
See- A party really has no right to pull an incumbant out of a race because of his age. The Democrats HAND PICKED Mondale to be their "man." The people picked Strom (who used to be a Democrat!). And they have kept picking him, and probably will continue to do so as long as he wants them too.
The guy is retiring, is 100! and still working for the people, and has had an amazing life. Maybe, once, you can look past the party and just respect the guy? It is not like he will be an issue much longer...




3 out of 5 Statisticians agree- Statistics are all bull$hit!
"Pool-Boy"

They won more than last year....
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 26 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#9 Posted on
Maybe, once, you can look past the party and just respect the guy?

Well, I can look past the party, but not his antidiluvian ideals and politics. I mean, it's not like I liked him until he switched parties. He sucked when he was Democrat also, worse than now.



Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
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#10 Posted on
There is no denying that the guy is a relic. OF COURSE his ideas are ancient- he is from a different time, and has lived a long ass life.
So what if he ran on a segregationist platform decades ago? SO WHAT?!?! It is not like he is out there palling around with David Duke today. That is not very compassionate of you! Besides- most of the black organizations today are pro-segregation in one way or another.
I think it is awfully elitist of you, Moe, to think that just because his ideas are old (and all of yours are new) that he is a pile of $hit. Even if you do NOT agree with what he stood for, you can at least learn from the guy.
I find your blind hatred distressing...

(edited by Pool-Boy on 6.12.02 1128)



3 out of 5 Statisticians agree- Statistics are all bull$hit!
"Pool-Boy"

They won more than last year....
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 26 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#11 Posted on
It's not that his ideals are old (OK, OK, maybe a misuse of "Anitdiluvian"), it's that I think they're extremely bad. They're better than they used to be, sure, but that because political reality changed, not Strom. It's not like this guy had some racist ideas in his teens that he's since avowd. This guy was espousing racist policies and ideals in his 60s. This is the guy who ran for President in his 40s solely on the platform of denying millions of American's of their rights. It's like Henry Hyde's "youthful indiscretions" in his 40s or George W. Bush's carefree youthfull party days in his 30s, except even more ridiculous.

Sure I can learn from the guy (mostly about how to get elected in South Carolina). You can learn from anyone. It doesn't mean I have to respect them.

And anyway, name me something admirable that Strom Thurmond did as a member of the Senate other than manage not to die.



Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    This is the guy who ran for President in his 40s solely on the platform of denying millions of American's of their rights.


Not quite. His platform was State's Rights. Something that many in the federal government and especialliy in the Demcoratic Party seem to have forgotten about, that whole 10th amendment thing.

Look, we can all agree that racism is bad. But saying that all of Strom's politics were race-based is like saying the Civil War was only about slavery, and that's a PC-Homogenized(sp?) version of history.



LIBERAL- adj: abundant, incapable, self-serving, racist, confiscatory, welfare-loving, anti-liberty, scrooge-like, indulgent, lavish, unprincipled, closed-minded, philanthropic with other peoples money, big-government loving, selfish, uptight, unrealisitc, unenlightened, discriminatory, totalitarian, partial, strict, overpermissive, intolerant, biased, bigoted, prejudiced
-------Real-life experience
evilwaldo
Lap cheong








Since: 7.2.02
From: New York, NY

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Didn't he father a shortee at 80?





From the infamous Wrestleline SS interview:

DTD: If you were to make changes in WCW, if you were in charge and not Ric Flair, what would they be?

SS: I'd get rid of all the old guys, and push the talent that has waited to get the push. The things they are doing, it's back in the 1980s. It's just bad, man. Flair doesn't even deserve to be on the show. You've got to get rid of all the old guys. Like what Vince did, they started pushing guys. Nobody knew who The Rock was 2 years ago. He made The Rock. Now The Rock just did Saturday Night Live. You've got to start with the young talent, talent people can relate to. Who are we trying to relate to if we've got a 50 year old man out there? Are we trying to relate, so a 50 year people and above will go out and buy a f*cking little toy? That ain't gonna happen. It's a f*cking joke.

Does it remind you of any show in particular?
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 26 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#14 Posted on
But saying that all of Strom's politics were race-based is like saying the Civil War was only about slavery, and that's a PC-Homogenized(sp?) version of history.


I never said that's what all of his politics were based on. I said that those politics were what he ran on in 1954 and the reason he won 3 states in 1948. An anti-segregationist Strom would have polled about 8 votes. So again, I say it says more about the folks who voted for him than him.

Not quite. His platform was State's Rights.

Right. Specifically the right of states to deny millions of their residents their rights under the 14th amendment, something Republicans tend to forget about. Whether the GOP likes "State's Rights" or not depends solely on the particular right a particular states wants.

I mean, he sure wasn't fighting for the right of states to, say, legalize medical marijuana.





Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#15 Posted on
Shall I do the work and outline everything positive he has voted for, or do you just want a link?
I think, in a nutshell, positive votes on education and national security issues, rejecting senseless military cuts- the list does go on...
How about sticking to his ideals, no matter what his party thought, no matter what? That, in general, is not something you can say about may politicians...

The whole state's rights issue is a mess, and I think you are forgetting the whole purpose of the constitution in your argument.. Moe. The basis of the "State's Right's argument is that the US is a collection of closely bound nations. The increasing power and size of the federal government have eroded those very rights with ammendments like the 14th. State's rights advocates, whether or not the 14th Ammendment is right or wrong in intent, fought against things like that because they felt it was not the government's PLACE to set those sort of rules, it was up to the individual state.
I am not saying that I dislike the 14th ammendment, however, I will not villify someone who believed that the federal government oversteped its bounds by including that in the consititution. In this day and age, that argument would be taken in a different vein, but THEN? It was a different situation entirely...

Respect and admiration are not the same thing. All I am saying is that Thurmond who does deserve respect. Opinions on his political stances are of course going to vary.
It is like Clinton vs. FDR. I disagree with both of them, but there is no question which of the two I respect more...


(edited by Pool-Boy on 6.12.02 1346)



3 out of 5 Statisticians agree- Statistics are all bull$hit!
"Pool-Boy"

They won more than last year....
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 441 days
Last activity: 441 days
#16 Posted on

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    But saying that all of Strom's politics were race-based is like saying the Civil War was only about slavery, and that's a PC-Homogenized(sp?) version of history.


    I never said that's what all of his politics were based on. I said that those politics were what he ran on in 1954 and the reason he won 3 states in 1948. An anti-segregationist Strom would have polled about 8 votes. So again, I say it says more about the folks who voted for him than him.

    Not quite. His platform was State's Rights.

    Right. Specifically the right of states to deny millions of their residents their rights under the 14th amendment, something Republicans tend to forget about. Whether the GOP likes "State's Rights" or not depends solely on the particular right a particular states wants.

    I mean, he sure wasn't fighting for the right of states to, say, legalize medical marijuana.









Well, now that Strom and Jesse are gone, will the media finally realize that the biggest racist in the Senate is a Democrat? I mean, if a Republican was a former member of the KKK, they would be ripped daily in the news. When its Democrat Robert Byrd, its the Dean of the Senate Robert Byrd. So, by last count, 1 Klan member Democratic Senator, and 1 Democrat Senator who is a murderer (let's go driving on that bridge.)



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
Brian P. Dermody
Liverwurst
Moderator








Since: 20.9.02
From: New York, NY

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#17 Posted on
I'll always remember ol' Strom from a soundbite at the '96 Republican convention.

Chuck D (yes, *that* Chuck D): Senator, do you have any message of hope, anything to say to the young inner-city black man?

(uncomfortably long pause)

Thurmond: I'm sorry, what?

And come on, 1996? He was a doe-eyed and vivacious 94 back then.



Modern Humorist
cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 139 days
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#18 Posted on
We were discussing this story at work, mostly being back and forth about whether a 100 year old public servant was a good thing when I came upon this gem in one of the stories I had read:

"Thurmond had developed a reputation as having a fondness for younger women."

What other kind are there when you reach 100????

Thank you...Master of the Obvious...at your service.



9-3 NORTH DIVISION CHAMPIONS Bring on the Vikings!

OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 3 days
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#19 Posted on
I don't think there are any, at least not since the Queen Mum died.



redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 441 days
Last activity: 441 days
#20 Posted on

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    I don't think there are any, at least not since the Queen Mum died.








Of course there are. Why else do you think Moolah and Mae Young are put on TV. To appease the geriatric demographic.



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
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