i've been watching wrestling since the 70's, and i can tell you people, this is really getting to be like a soap opera,that includes ,raw,smackdown and nxt......i will stop watching this shit until they loose the wwe universe and get there shit back together the way it used to be......vince mcmahon sucks did you ever in your life see anybody that filthy rich pull there pants down on national television....he is a ------- disgrace to the human civilization......................
for you people who were born in the 90's,you have never seen anything but this type of crap show...it so full of shit ,my young grandson laughs......i hope you guys really enjoy this crap that vince puts out every ,the more shit they put out andreplay at everyshoe the less matches they have to show............
Originally posted by CRZ Are you in a part of the country that has good live wrestling available for you to attend?
There are parts of the country that don't have good live wrestling available? Or does the fact that I once drove 500 miles to attend an indie show on my birthday signify that my interpretation of "available" differs greatly from yours?
Incidentally, I drove 500 miles to see AJ Styles vs Shannon Moore, only to have the match replaced with Billy Gunn vs some local guy. But hey, that was better than a guy's head hitting the concrete so hard that it sounded like a fucking gunshot, followed by him going into a full seizure and then it taking 30 minutes for the fucking ambulance to arrive.
Not that this is at all relevant to the thread but I never got around to writing about it back when it happened because every time I tried, I found myself filled with the urge to drive back to Minnesota and beat the shit out of the promoter. (Over the lack of medical staff on hand, not the main event switch. Shannon Moore had a legit reason for not being there and AJ was there but had gotten hurt the night before.)
I gotta say that I can see where you are coming from. However, although I wasn't watching in the 70's I watched from the 80's on. I remember watching the birth of Wrestlemania. From that point on I was sold.
Throughout my tenure as a wrestling fan, I must say that we have seen much worse times in the world of WWE/F. The soap opera argument is weak. The only significant change to that is the past hiring of writers with soap writing experience. My point here is that it is not getting to be like a soap opera, that element has always been there.
I too have been disappointed over the past couple of years. The writing has been dull and inconsistent. Yet, they still find a way to intrigue me with a storyline that just might be the one to bring wrestling back into the mainstream. Now the fortunate part about this is that once it goes mainstream, I get the luxury of payoff. A feeling of this is why kept watching. Is Nexus that next big thing? Maybe, like most I want this to turn out to be the next biggest thing, however I am not counting on it.
Additionally, lets not discount the caliber of talent that make it worth sticking through the bad stuff. (In no particular order) Mysterio, Evan Bourne, CM Punk, Jericho, Shawn Michaels, Shelton, Edge, Christian.... The list goes on. Sure they are not having the matches of their career every week, but man are we treated with some doosies. Heck, every now and then we get the gripe of I can't believe they gave that away on free T.V.
Obviously wrestling has been a staple of your life, this is not the time to give up. You had ample opportunity during the Hogan era, Hogan Era II, Katie Vick, WCW takeover, Kiss my ass club,Muhammad Hassan, DX part Deux, WWECW & DX 33 1/3 etc.... You are past the point of no return. Consider watching and enjoying the great stuff. When the bad stuff happens, come her and moan about it like everybody else!
--Edit, added Hogan Era II & the aforementioned kiss my ass club (as mentioned by jerry)
There have definately been worse times for the WWF/E. 1993-1996 was pretty damn horrid.
My problem with the E right now isn't that they are horrible, it is that they are so damn DULL. The characters are all basically the same, with the same basic build/look/moveset/music. The promos are all very generic and unemotional, and the matches are pretty much kick, punch, finisher. The guys that do stand out are the leftovers from the 90's like Taker/Michaels/Rey.
Originally posted by Scottyflamingo The guys that do stand out are the leftovers from the 90's like Taker/Michaels/Rey.
I'd say CM Punk stands out and doesn't fit any of the description you provided. Evan Bourne may not be in the upper card just yet but he definitely has a unique moveset. Even if you remove his high risk moves, he still has an interesting arsenal. R-Truth and Kofi Kingston would go on the list as well. I'd probably even add Tyson Kidd and JTG, though they haven't had much of an opportunity to showcase it thus far.
The fact of the matter is, it's not possible for wrestling to return to the way it was back in the '70s and '80s without destroying the entire industry. There are certain elements from those days that should be re-implemented but unless you can come up with some sort of mind-wipe ray that will cause people to forget that wrestling is predetermined, as well as eliminate a majority of the television programming, things aren't going to change much.
People continually bitch about the amount of PPVs making it too difficult to build proper storylines but that's only a portion of the problem. Go back to the '80s and take the best storylines of the decade and figure out how you'd have something significant happen every single week for months at a time. It isn't going to happen. A big part of the build up back then was simply the announcers talking about prior events while one of the participants beat up a jobber or someone cutting a promo and not wrestling at all. The amount of people who would tolerate something like that these days wouldn't amount to enough money to pay the jobbers fee, let alone the star's salary.
I've been watching wrestling since I randomly came across it on TV back in 1981 or '82. My absolute fondest wrestling memory was on Christmas Eve of 1983 when I watched Bruiser Brody and Abdullah the Butcher beat the hell out of each other about 15 feet from me, up in the stands. I've been to shows for everything from the original NWA Central States to present day WWE and TNA as well as several indie feds, some that have been around for years, some that were putting on their very first (and, so far, only) show. I occasionally watch old AWA and UWF shows on ESPN and they bore the hell out of me. Half the time, it's not just a jobber squash, it's a jobber being squashed by someone who wasn't even very good. Twenty years ago, I loved that stuff. If they tried to put that on television today, I'd change the channel in a heartbeat and I wouldn't be the only one.
Sure, wrestling back in the day was far superior to what we're getting now. The same with music. And movies. And cartoons. You'll even find plenty of people who say the same thing about video games. And whenever "back in the day" was for you, you would have found plenty of people talking about much better wrestling was twenty years before that. Take some of the hottest angles from the '80s and show 'em to kids today and they'll probably fall asleep. If you asked the average wrestling fan today why Ric Flair was so good, they probably couldn't even tell you. They just think he's one of the greatest of all time because that's what the WWE told them to believe. A majority of current day wrestling fans would probably find a Cody Rhodes vs Michael McGullicuty match far more interesting than Dusty Rhodes vs Curt Hennig in their primes.
Don't like today's wrestling? Well, join the other 90% of humanity who have never liked it. It's not only normal, it's to be expected. But sitting around whining about it on the Internet is slightly less productive than sitting on the porch, yelling at kids to get off of your lawn. That doesn't mean you shouldn't whine about it. This is the Internet, one can only watch porn for so many hours a day, so you have to fill the rest of the time with something. Just don't take offense when most people can't take your whining about the degeneration of an imaginary sport seriously.
I think something else that makes it seem worse is WWE being basically the only game in town. Up until 2001, you had the whole NWA/WWF, WCW/WWF dynamic and when one sucked, usually the other one didn't. Now pretty much if the WWE sucks, you have no options.
Originally posted by jerry101for you people who were born in the 90's,you have never seen anything but this type of crap show...it so full of shit ,my young grandson laughs......i hope you guys really enjoy this crap that vince puts out every ,the more shit they put out andreplay at everyshoe the less matches they have to show............
Give us some ideas on how they(WWE) should improve?
Originally posted by Scottyflamingo And combined TNA, ROH, Lucha and indies have about half the audience that WCW/NWA did. TNA is the only one that is easily accessible. I don't know of any cable system around here that carries HDNET.
I wasn't aware that the size of the audience impacts the quality of the programming. I'll make sure to not enjoy the next indie show I go to as much as I have bigger shows.
Dish Network carries HDNet and no longer charge extra for HD programming. That would also give you access to the lucha libre programming as well. I don't know how cable pricing compares to satellite pricing where you are but I don't even have the option to get cable here.
A quick search also informs me that Netflix has Ring of Honor, Chikara, Pro Wrestling Guerilla & Shimmer DVDs. Probably others, as well, those are just the groups I happened to think of to Google for, I'm sure if you go to the actual Netflix site, there's probably a pro wrestling category from which you can get a full list. (I'd check myself but I'm on dialup and the site is taking forever to load, plus I'm afraid they'll magically nail me for the copy of Donnie Darko I rented 3 years ago and never returned and they couldn't charge me for due to a canceled credit card.)
And, of course, there's probably more hours of matches on YouTube than you'll ever have time to watch. There's even an Alabama Indy Wrestling group on MySpace. Maybe you can find some shows in your area through that.
Hell, for a couple of hundred bucks you could have the Half-Pint Brawlers or Micro League Wrestling come to your local bar and put on a wrestling show.
The fact of the matter is, if you want to watch professional wrestling and don't like the WWE, there are more options now than there ever was in the past. Some of them might require a modicum more effort than sitting on your couch changing channels but most of them require less keystrokes than complaining on a message board.
Originally posted by ScottyflamingoNow pretty much if the WWE sucks, you have no options.
There's a company on Spike TV called TNA. If you get HDnet, there's Ring of Honor. Colors TV probably still broadcasts NWA Showcase. And there are lots of indie groups that put their shows online.
Not to mention around 6 hours of lucha libre, if you have satellite and the new lucha show that starts on MTV in a couple of weeks.
And that's without spending any money exclusively on wrestling. If you purchase the WWE pay-per-views, you could always forgo them and pick up a few indie DVDs as well.
Saying there's no alternative to the WWE is like saying you have no choice but to eat McDonalds. You're doing it to yourself.
It's a bit harder to get into (Well unless you know your way around the internets) but there is always Japanese Pro Wrestling. Long matches, little to no storyline, but some of the best and most varied wrestling out there today. Big Mouth Loud for the old hardcore/ECW style wrestling, All Japan/Noah/New Japan for clean "strong-Style" wrestling and variations, DDT for gimmicky Attitude-era indie comedy and serious wrestling, Dragon Gate for the "OMFG what is this crazy shit" X-Division on steroids wrestling.
Hell Dragon Gate does shows in America now, that you can actually go and see. They have some DVDs out for the buying of right meow!
Quick thought. did anyone else notice the incredibly high match quality these four men put up for us on Raw? I mean it was a high PPV quality tag match on RAW! Really makes you appreciate the effort by all those in the match even more