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The W - Pro Wrestling - Steriods are killing our favs
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tsmstu
Chourico








Since: 12.7.03

Since last post: 2936 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.57
Well our good friends over at 411 have posted the British Bulldog's autopsy report (thanks 411, we wanted to know!!)and to no ones surprise Steriods were indeed involved in the early death of yet another wrestling great.

Just who is to blame for all of these deaths?

Did Vince force workers to juice up in the 80's as the federal government accused him of some 10+ years ago? If that is the case, is it Vince's fault that we have lost Davey Boy, Rick Rude, Hercules and many others, seemingly due to their steriod abuse (along with other drug use that was rampant in those days)?

I am having a tough time with this one. I'm sure Vince never took a gun and forced anyone to juice up, but if he DID indeed put pressure on his workers of yesteryear to put on the 'ol water weight, then he is in a way responsible in some respect for alot of this death we are seeing.

Is it only a matter of time before we start seeing athletes from other sports of that same time frame dropping dead? The Jose Canseco's and Mark McGwire's and Bobby Bonilla's? I mean what about NFL stars from that time frame?

I remeber feeling like Vince was being victimized back then when he was being put on trail, but now a decade later, we are seeing the results of what was going on in the WWF locker room in the 80's and early 90's....





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themaker
Linguica








Since: 24.11.03

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.52
There's a little something called personal responsibilty that has gotten lost in our society. Sure, its easy to blame Vince. He hires people who have the best LOOK for the business. But is it really his fault that some people choose to obtain that look by using illegal steroids?

Same goes with baseball. Sure, hitting 50+ HRs will make you the most money and will garner you the most fame, but are the owners who give out the fat contracts to blame?

The message needs to get out to athletes around the world that when its all said and done, its their mind, bodies, and personal health that are at risk. However, these guys are living in the now. If they are willing to trade their lives for fame, who can really stop them?



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Hoodle
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Since: 19.12.03

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.35
First of all, the report posted said that there was evidence that Davey used steroids in the past. NO WHERE in the report does it say they caused his death. Good ole' 411 jumped to that conclusion by themselves, as far as I can see.

(I'm not defending steroids and they certainly may have contributed to his death, but let's not jump to conclusions - I know Davey was, at one time, hooked badly on painkillers.)

Also, its unrealistic to think that steroid abuse in WWE is a thing of the 80's and 90's. Look at HHH, Benoit, Stenier. even Guerrero and Angle to an extent . . . My lord, if ever there were obvious cases . . . I mean, I really don't think HHH's "freak" quad injury was really all that "freak." If anything, I'd be willing to bet there are more wrestlers on steroids now than ever. Compare the average wrestler's physique today to the average physique 20 years ago. Diet/Exercise Theory really hasn't changed THAT much in the last 20 years or so . . . so what's making the huge difference?

I do agree mostly with themaker, tho, personal responsibility is a lost value in our society, however if Vince pressures them, he does deserve part of the blame, but not all of it. The majority lies on the individual, becuase ultimately it is his/her own choice.

As far as Rude/Herculer etc are concerned - was it confirmed that steroids killed them? Or was it other drugs?




SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.46
    Originally posted by Hoodle
    Look at HHH, Benoit, Stenier. even Guerrero and Angle to an extent


Guerrero to a bigger extent than Angle and really not far behind Benoit.

It's an unwinnable war to try and eliminate steroids and HGH and the like from sports, and even more unwinnable with pro wrestling where there is a huge emphasis on how you look.



Scott Christ
Oh, Billy - I should've left you dead, baby.
Bullitt
Shot in the dark








Since: 11.1.02
From: Houston

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.20
I fail to see exactly where in that article it states that steroids caused the Bulldog's death...all I can see is it says he used steroids in the past.

Please point it out for me. Thank you.



Making it Happen Since 1971 (agentzero.blogspot.com)
XManiac24
Bauerwurst








Since: 2.3.04

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
"Personal responsibility has been lost in our society."

I couldn't agree more with that statement.

But in response to the thread. I am no super sports fan or anything, but I think a key to note is that professional athletes in the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL usually drive together on a bus stay in nice hotels and are generally well taken care of.

The life of a pro wrestler isn't glamourous because they don't have all those luxuries as we all know (i.e going weeks and months on end on the road). It isn't just the steroids messing up and knocking off people (though it is a factor), I believe it has a lot to do with people's continued drug use because it is what they came to know and need after the abuse taken in the ring. I mean, if it were just the roids, people like the Hulkster and Muraco may be in the same boat, we don't know.

Like Hennig, for instance, he died of acute cocaine intoxication. Obviously he was still addicted. I am sure there are a few guys like him who just did their drugs and it took them out.

Aside from that, it was their time to go and there isn't anything anyone can really argue against on that.

In a early 1999 interview with EGM magazine, Owen Hart said:

"You have to stay focused and disciplined...You have to stay away from drugs and you have to keep your family life good...if they aren't before you know it you're a 30 year old with a blown out knee and you never learned to save."

(edited by XManiac24 on 18.3.04 2043)


If you disagree...you're wrong.
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
What... the... hell? Y'all are suddenly accusing Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero of abusing steroids? Are you mental?!

It isn't possible they simply work out constantly, eat correctly and take the right supplements?

Hell, if you want to talk about freakish looks, look at Vince McMahon himself! He's got larger arms than any of those guys, and it's not as if he's had them very long.



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Since: 24.11.03

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.54
Xmanic touches on key point here.

I'm not surethis is the case with other sports, but I think the big problem with wrestlers is overall drug abuse, not necessarily steroids. The amount of physical abuse these guys endure makes them the poster children of painkiller abuse, which is the gateway to a much darker world in some cases.

Wrestling's substance abuse problem is much moe layered than just a debate about steroids, IMO.



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Nag
Landjager








Since: 10.1.03
From: Enter your city here

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Y!:
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.53
"What... the... hell? Y'all are suddenly accusing Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero of abusing steroids? Are you mental?!"

Well you too got to look at the degree in which they use them. Look at pictures from Angle in RR 2000, and look again at RR 2001, notice a difference, I thought so. Angle Fucking ballooned. I'm not saying he is doing them to the degree that Warrior or Hogan did them 15 years ago, but something happened during that first title run that is too dramatic to ignore.

Benoit and Eddie, I think to a smaller degree. You just can't ignore the fact that Benoit has wrestled for 17 years at one size, Eddie wrestled for X amount of years at one size, then in the last year or so they get bigger, BAM World championship.

And no one would deny Vince of usage.

Cheesehead
Mettwurst








Since: 24.10.03
From: WI, now in the land of the Vikings...*shudder*

Since last post: 1872 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.87
    Originally posted by Nag
    Benoit and Eddie, I think to a smaller degree. You just can't ignore the fact that Benoit has wrestled for 17 years at one size, Eddie wrestled for X amount of years at one size, then in the last year or so they get bigger, BAM World championship.


Maybe I am being "overprotective" or am just ignorant about steroid abuse, but when I think of guys that use steroids, I think of much bigger (as in size) people than Benoit. According to wwe.com he's wrestling at 220, and when I stood next to him this weekend one of my first thoughts was "wow, he's not really as big as I thought" (I didn't realize we were the same height, either!) Do you really think he's gotten that much bigger over the last year? Benoit...steroids... I'm not so sure.





The moment we all had been waiting for...
tsmstu
Chourico








Since: 12.7.03

Since last post: 2936 days
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.57
the whole HHH quad thing is a great point...I mean how many injuries did Kevin Nash sustain just walking..Steriods deteriorate your body when they are abused. Superstar Bill Grahm is a cripple as a result of the juice..

its not just steriods, i agree, it FOR SURE is a combo that includes pills and other drugs 100%...but plenty of 80's drug abusers are still alive today. I mean look at a guy like John Fruciante, the man lost all of his teeth his addiction was so strong, he's alive...Steriods enlarge your muscles, your HEART is a muscle...I think steriods are going to continue to knock of guys we all loved...


AS for the current roster...Ever since vince "suspended Marty Jannety" back in the day for steriod use (this was after the trial)I was under the immpression that WWE cleaned itself up...Maybe I was niave. Thinking about it now, guys like Eddie and HHH and Angle have THE WORST bacne i have EVER seen in my life...there might not be a connection to steriods, but I know that is usually a tell tale sign...

Warrior is next to die...


oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1987 days
Last activity: 1921 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.02
"What... the... hell? Y'all are suddenly accusing Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero of abusing steroids? Are you mental?!"

Eddie's one of the most obvious cases in recent history. There was a point, I think it was late 2000, where he vanished for a few weeks thanks to a minor injury. When he made his return he was ridiculously jacked, far beyond the muscle-mass he had been carrying just a monh or two prior.

"Maybe I am being "overprotective" or am just ignorant about steroid abuse, but when I think of guys that use steroids, I think of much bigger (as in size) people than Benoit."

Size and weight aren't clear indicators of sterois abuse, it's different strokes for different folks. Benoit's what, 5'8? With thin legs, small arms and not particularly broad shoulders. How many people do you know of that size even close to that level of muscle development on such a slight frame? As for Kurt Angle....well, I always thought he was one of the most natural guys on the roster, and didn't seem to be a user. But that's just me.

Seriously folks, I know these guys are our faves, but it's just blinkered to think that steroids are entirely the realm of the big bad politicans.




For Relaxing Times...Make It Suntory Time

SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1327 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.46
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    What... the... hell? Y'all are suddenly accusing Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero of abusing steroids? Are you mental?!


Angle I have my doubts about but Guerrero and Benoit? Come on. Look at them.

    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    It isn't possible they simply work out constantly, eat correctly and take the right supplements?


Isn't it possible that you're only defending them this aggressively because you like them a lot? I do, too, dude. They are champions among men. But for god's sake, they're both nearing 40 years old and are bigger than they've ever been.

I'm not saying I even care that they're on steroids. I'm not their mom.



Scott Christ
Oh, Billy - I should've left you dead, baby.
Hoodle
Bauerwurst








Since: 19.12.03

Since last post: 3365 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.98
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    What... the... hell? Y'all are suddenly accusing Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero of abusing steroids? Are you mental?!

    It isn't possible they simply work out constantly, eat correctly and take the right supplements?

    Hell, if you want to talk about freakish looks, look at Vince McMahon himself! He's got larger arms than any of those guys, and it's not as if he's had them very long.


Angle increased a LOT in 1 year and lost all his hair AND had body acne.

Ditto for guerrero, minus the hairloss.

Look, here's some facts about muscle: With the constant aerobic stress wrestlers put themselves through it is doubtful they could maintain such a high volume of muscle without steroid help. Lots of muscle + lots of aerobic excersize really don't mix well. Aerobic exercise (like a moderate-to-fast-paced wrestling match) increases the metabolism which leads to muscle loss. These guys wrestle A LOT. To gain muscle you want to keepo your calories clean and your metabolism LOW. (Look, even for an average person who is trying to lose fat, more than 4 - 5 sessions of cardio per week is too much and will lead to muscle loss.)

Whats more, Extended sessions (35+ mins) of aerobic exercise cause cortisol to be released, which is a hormone that initiates a catabolic response from the body - that is, *the body begins to break down muscle tissue for fuel instead of bodyfat or glycogen (stored carbohydrate).* (Remember from the JD '00 promo, when it claims that HHH and Rocky will lose about 7 lbs total in their Iron Man Match? Thats really not too far from the truth. Some of that is fatloss, a lot of it, however, is muscle loss.)

Combine all that with the low amounts of sleep these guys get compared to how much they SHOULD get, given their muscle mass. (Muscle ONLY grows when you sleep - thats when your GH is released.) and its hard to believe there are too many all-natural physiques in wrestling.

Again, I stress that exercise/diet theory has not changed much in the last 30 years. Why is it that the average wrestling physique has improved tenfold in that same span of time? You're kidding yourself if you don't think most wrestlers use the juice.

EDIT: One more important thing - notice how almost all wrestlers claim to lift weights for 2 1/2 - 3hrs a day? That's USELESS unless you are on steroids. For an all-natural bodybuilder, anything more than 75 - 90 mins of weightlifting is not only pointless but is actually severely detrimental your muscle growth. After 75 mins, cortisol rises sharply and testosterone plummets. That is the opposite of what you want for muscle growth. One of the reasons people take steroids is so they CAN train for 3 hrs/day and get huge really quickly.



(edited by Hoodle on 19.3.04 1252)

(edited by Hoodle on 19.3.04 1258)

(edited by Hoodle on 19.3.04 1338)
Cheesehead
Mettwurst








Since: 24.10.03
From: WI, now in the land of the Vikings...*shudder*

Since last post: 1872 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.87
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Size and weight aren't clear indicators of sterois abuse, it's different strokes for different folks. Benoit's what, 5'8? With thin legs, small arms and not particularly broad shoulders. How many people do you know of that size even close to that level of muscle development on such a slight frame? As for Kurt Angle....well, I always thought he was one of the most natural guys on the roster, and didn't seem to be a user. But that's just me.

    Seriously folks, I know these guys are our faves, but it's just blinkered to think that steroids are entirely the realm of the big bad politicans.



Benoit's 5'10" according to wwe.com and the fact we stood at the same height standing next to each other, but 5'8 or 5'10, I get your point. He does have a slight frame. I don't want you to think I was "defending" him, just questioning as I just never thought of him as one of the guys that was juiced up. Hell, the only one that I ever really think that about EVERY time he is on screen is Scott Steiner. I just never really thought about it before. Like Scottie said, I'm not their mom. Do I hate seeing them put themselves at a higher health risk, especially if it is my favorite wrestler? Yes. But clearly they are adults, and can make those decisions on their own.





The moment we all had been waiting for...
AvidMerion
Pinkelwurst








Since: 19.3.04
From: Essex , England

Since last post: 3868 days
Last activity: 3861 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.92
y wud it be vinces fort hes not there real boss - only as acting he is but who cares bout people dieing on steroids, i think its funny :D

(deleted by CRZ on 24.3.04 2055)

(resurrected by JMShapiro on 13.5.04 1949)
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 44 days
Last activity: 1 day
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.23
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    "What... the... hell? Y'all are suddenly accusing Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero of abusing steroids? Are you mental?!"

    Eddie's one of the most obvious cases in recent history. There was a point, I think it was late 2000, where he vanished for a few weeks thanks to a minor injury. When he made his return he was ridiculously jacked, far beyond the muscle-mass he had been carrying just a monh or two prior.

    "Maybe I am being "overprotective" or am just ignorant about steroid abuse, but when I think of guys that use steroids, I think of much bigger (as in size) people than Benoit."

    Size and weight aren't clear indicators of sterois abuse, it's different strokes for different folks. Benoit's what, 5'8? With thin legs, small arms and not particularly broad shoulders. How many people do you know of that size even close to that level of muscle development on such a slight frame? As for Kurt Angle....well, I always thought he was one of the most natural guys on the roster, and didn't seem to be a user. But that's just me.

    Seriously folks, I know these guys are our faves, but it's just blinkered to think that steroids are entirely the realm of the big bad politicans.



Just to add something to your point, I remember reading in the local papers when Eddie Gilbert died that they found steroids in his system. Eddie was certainly not someone you would look at and think 'Yep, steroid user.' But apparently it was the case.



Everything that is wrong in this world can be blamed on Freddie Prinze Jr.
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 16 hours
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.08
The real danger of steroids is the way they deteriorate the body. Steroids basically cause health problems that would happen later in life to happen sooner, and worse. For example, if you were likely to have a heart attack at 60, with a chance of survival given adequate medical treatment, you'll be likely to be killed by one at 40.
Nag
Landjager








Since: 10.1.03
From: Enter your city here

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Y!:
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.53
Yes as ges said, and taking it a step further I've heard it said 90 percent of the WWF locker room in the 80's was using roids, and although there were obviously your super human gorillas, that in my mind was still the minority of wrestlers. Guys like Piper and Bret Hart have admitted to usage during those days, and neither looked like roid candidates. It seems to me inherent with the lifestyle, on the road four of five days a week with the guys, pressure from you pals to drink, drug, bang some ring rats, then go out to the local IHOP to lick your wounds. Pressure from management to have a world class physique. How can so many of them maintain that look, when it would take an average man years to perfect and hours upon hours to maintain.

In contrast to Angle, who we all seen developed in a short amount of time, Benoit is hard to get a true point of reference. When he was wrestling in Japan and ECW 10 years ago, he was wrestling for the most part smaller guys. I can't really picture him in his early WCW run, but then again, he was usually working with smaller or older or less athletic guys like Kevin Sullivan. However when he's up against Triple H, he doesn't look all to bad, which raises suspicion to my mind for a guy with such an odd and smallish frame.

SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1327 days
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.46
(deleted by CRZ on 24.3.04 2056)
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