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29.8.14 0719
The W - Current Events & Politics - State of the union address
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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.72
Wow. Did Sean Hannity get control if the teleprompter?

Cut corporate taxes?
Stepped up support of the troops?
Freeze spending domestically for five years?
Fix the parts of obamacare that don't make sense?

I can't believe I actually heard those words from Obama.

Is this a true movement to the center?
has Obama realized his ideas don't/wont work?

Or is he preemtively trying to take credit for any GOP success?
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Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 396 days
Last activity: 357 days
#2 Posted on
I hope he realizes that even a move toward the center won't get Republicans to agree with him. They go with him and it does well, he gets re-elected. They make sure nothing gets done, they can claim that he's been ineffective for four years.
Peter The Hegemon
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Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 6 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    I hope he realizes that even a move toward the center won't get Republicans to agree with him.


I don't think he does, unfortunately.

I think this is a pattern throughout his Administration; he tries to be centrist and compromising, and it does him no good. He accepted Republican ideas, including the insurance mandate and cap-and-trade, and conservatives not only gave him no credit for that, but turned around and called their own ideas radical and unconstitutional. He stepped up enforcement on illegal immigration, a pet conservative issue, and Fox News and conservative radio simply ignored that and claimed that he was refusing to enforce the law.

I think he'd be better off starting from a more hard-line position, and then only moving to these compromises if he can get something in return. If he's going to be painted as a radical socialist, he might as well behave like one.
DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.72
As twisted as this sounds, I suggest the following with apologies to all those who would be devestated. The country has to see the effects of what the republican leadership says it wants. It is the only way to accomplish one of two things. See if the ideas work and if they do we are saved. Or see the cost in human suffering, needless turmoil, and crumbling infrastructure etc.

So Obama and the Dem leadership should work to totally repeal "Obamacare", get returned all the ARRA money, pull the money from extending unemployment, reduce spending to I believe it's 2006 levels, eliminate any and all taxes on investment income, eliminate any and all taxes on the "rich", and everything and anything else the Republican leadership wants. I mean everything. Get it passed and done yesterday.

Either the Republican leadership is correct and life will be good or for once and for a long-time put their ideas to rest.



Perception is reality
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 2 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.55
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    As twisted as this sounds, I suggest the following with apologies to all those who would be devestated. The country has to see the effects of what the republican leadership says it wants. It is the only way to accomplish one of two things. See if the ideas work and if they do we are saved. Or see the cost in human suffering, needless turmoil, and crumbling infrastructure etc.

    So Obama and the Dem leadership should work to totally repeal "Obamacare", get returned all the ARRA money, pull the money from extending unemployment, reduce spending to I believe it's 2006 levels, eliminate any and all taxes on investment income, eliminate any and all taxes on the "rich", and everything and anything else the Republican leadership wants. I mean everything. Get it passed and done yesterday.

    Either the Republican leadership is correct and life will be good or for once and for a long-time put their ideas to rest.


Unfortunately, you can't play fast in loose with the thin economy renewal we are in. Even if one of the ten were do some good, the GOP would say everything went right and ignore the facts which was the hallmark of the Bush Administration. Obama is not a terrible place right now. He is polling at 55% and the economy is improving slowly. Fighting over Obamacare is a losing strategy for the GOP and they should know it, eventually, people will get sick of it and turn on the GOP. Its not like there is a giant movement repeal all of it. Most polls have it dead even or repeal only at 5% over not to repeal. He actually has some momentum right now and if he can work out a few bipartisan efforts it can only help him and certain GOP members.

I think the GOP should be worried about their party right now instead looking for a long fights. Shutting down the government sounds like what people want, but when the millions of government employees stop shopping and joining the unemployment ranks, its a different tune. It also won't help if there is crisis or people start feeling inconvenience if government is not there.

I also think people are getting a closer look at the Tea Party people they elected and beginning some buyer remorse. Palin fell on her face with her "blood libel" speech. Jesus Christ, forget the meaning of the words for a moment, why on God's green Earth would use the word, blood after that tragedy. Also, the Tea Party queen's response after the state of the union was a disaster. The GOP response was no matter with the sky is falling mentality. Sooner or later, the GOP is going to have to realize that people don't want to hear about the bad news anymore, they are living it. They want answers and I doubt the GOP can do much like they know they can't do anything since the Tea Party cost them the Senate. They can blame the Obama game, but they can't play it more then six months and to be fair I doubt they can play for that long with all the polls showing faith in the GOP is sliding backwards again.


(edited by lotjx on 26.1.11 1343)
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
Unfortunately some of this stuff just has to play itself out to see if it works or not. It's tough because we live in a world of instant gratification.

I get the feeling that most people realize that the new Healthcare is here to stay. Repealing seems like a giant waste of time, but the bill is far from perfect so I'd rather they debug the thing instead.

DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.72
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    Unfortunately some of this stuff just has to play itself out to see if it works or not. It's tough because we live in a world of instant gratification.

    I get the feeling that most people realize that the new Healthcare is here to stay. Repealing seems like a giant waste of time, but the bill is far from perfect so I'd rather they debug the thing instead.




I don't disagree but the curious part is that a whole lot of what is in the health care act was proposed in the 1990's by the Republican party.



Perception is reality
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 51 min.
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.30
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Is this a true movement to the center?
    has Obama realized his ideas don't/wont work?

    Or is he preemtively trying to take credit for any GOP success?


I suspect two things:

1) Obama is not afraid of compromise within reason to get things done, but he realizes his administration is polarizing. In order to push his bipartisan philosophy of forward movement, he's asked the GOP repeatedly to step up with ideas and work with him and repeatedly they've swatted the hand away to play to their constituents. Recognizing the pattern of rejection for collaboration, I think he's forcing the gainsaying GOP to move further right to distance themselves from him.

2) His description of redundant bureaucracy was jarring, and his notion of radically whittling away government was what caught my attention most. The government shrank under Clinton/Gore, and I think he wants to continue that and reduce the growth spurred by 9/11. But that means he removes a major tenant of the conservatives (smaller government), and again it makes the GOP and Tea Party plant a distinguishing flag on another hill.

In the days after the election, the newly elected conservatives offered very little specifics of how to follow through with their campaign promises, including shrinking government. Obama stepped up with SotU suggestions. They can either step back or stand next to him, but I reckon they don't want to be seen as working alongside the figure they ran against.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1214 days
Last activity: 1011 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    I don't disagree but the curious part is that a whole lot of what is in the health care act was proposed in the 1990's by the Republican party.
And it isn't the only time the good guys have proposed a bad idea. Didn't make it a good idea then, doesn't make it a good idea now...
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 19 hours
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.11
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    1) Obama is not afraid of compromise within reason to get things done, but he realizes his administration is polarizing. In order to push his bipartisan philosophy of forward movement, he's asked the GOP repeatedly to step up with ideas and work with him and repeatedly they've swatted the hand away to play to their constituents. Recognizing the pattern of rejection for collaboration, I think he's forcing the gainsaying GOP to move further right to distance themselves from him.

    In the days after the election, the newly elected conservatives offered very little specifics of how to follow through with their campaign promises, including shrinking government. Obama stepped up with SotU suggestions. They can either step back or stand next to him, but I reckon they don't want to be seen as working alongside the figure they ran against.


The GOP's sole narrative for the last two years has been "Obama is a socialist/Kenyan/communist who wants to literally destroy America." With these scare tactics in play firing up the stupider (see: the Tea Party) members of their base, the GOP may basically made compromise impossible, since otherwise they'd be seen as aligning with the 'Enemy Of America.' Ergo, all they can do is keep saying no and trying to gum up the works as much as possible. They could propose their own ideas but, they don't have anything fresh.



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 6 hours
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
    Originally posted by DrDirt

    So Obama and the Dem leadership should work to totally repeal "Obamacare", get returned all the ARRA money, pull the money from extending unemployment, reduce spending to I believe it's 2006 levels, eliminate any and all taxes on investment income, eliminate any and all taxes on the "rich", and everything and anything else the Republican leadership wants. I mean everything. Get it passed and done yesterday.

    Either the Republican leadership is correct and life will be good or for once and for a long-time put their ideas to rest.


In other words, we should go back to all of George W. Bush's economic policies, because if those policies were to lead to an economic collapse, then people would stop believing in them?

Somehow I think they would cling to the same ideas anyway. Call it a crazy hunch....
DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.72
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      Originally posted by DrDirt

      So Obama and the Dem leadership should work to totally repeal "Obamacare", get returned all the ARRA money, pull the money from extending unemployment, reduce spending to I believe it's 2006 levels, eliminate any and all taxes on investment income, eliminate any and all taxes on the "rich", and everything and anything else the Republican leadership wants. I mean everything. Get it passed and done yesterday.

      Either the Republican leadership is correct and life will be good or for once and for a long-time put their ideas to rest.


    In other words, we should go back to all of George W. Bush's economic policies, because if those policies were to lead to an economic collapse, then people would stop believing in them?

    Somehow I think they would cling to the same ideas anyway. Call it a crazy hunch....


True believers on either side wont change. elections are about the middle that determines who gets elected.

I think most of the Tea party platform is awful and willhave very serious negative consequences if enacted. But I don't think it will lead to an economic collapse.

This country seems to have trouble embracing a more steady course politically and seems to embrace giant penduluum swings before settling where we need to be.



Perception is reality
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.55
The GOP is hellbent to cut everything including science and technology which is what we need to get out of this mess. Nothing the GOP is going to do is going to stimulate the economy its just going to keep it where it is or make it worse. I think the idea of slicing and dicing jobs away, good paying jobs is going to lead to more problems. You have to spend money to make money, we are slowly and I saw slowly recovering. I see it in my job that deals with manufacturing, the economy is coming back. I see it my wife's job where for the last three yours, they have no bonuses or raises now they are getting them again.

I think the reality and no one wants talk about is the deficit is so big, it will never be paid off. That doesn't mean China is going to take over, it just seems we like the rest of the governments on the planet is in debt. We can eliminate some of it, but lets be honest, its not going to happen in 2012, 2016 or probably ever if we don't get a technology boom like the internet which helped save us in the 90s. The more cutting we do in that respect, the less of a chance of another major breakthrough. The GOP is selling a pipe dream and Tea Party people are smoking it, but no one has the balls to say, "Hey, we are going to have to live with some debt, deal with it."

(edited by lotjx on 27.1.11 0804)
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.72
I've been following Paul Ryan since the healthcare summit and, despite what has been said here about the GOP not having any idea of what to do, he has been laying out the groundwork on how to reign in spending and reduce our debt.

Its funny, a lit of people who were jumping on GWB for spending the surplus Clinton left are pretty silent on what Obama's done to our deficit.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 51 min.
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.47
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Its funny, a lit of people who were jumping on GWB for spending the surplus Clinton left are pretty silent on what Obama's done to our deficit.


Like finally adding the cost of 2 wars to the budget?



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 58 days
Last activity: 56 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Its funny, a lit of people who were jumping on GWB for spending the surplus Clinton left are pretty silent on what Obama's done to our deficit.


Of the thing that people jumped on GWB about, spending Clinton's surplus was pretty far down the list. You wanna talk about all the people who are jumping up and down about Obama's spending who stayed silent for eight years of the one of most spend-happy presidents in history? Or how Obama's budgetary policies must, by necessity, cope with the overspending started by Bush in his years in office? It's a lot more complicated than your post, and you know that.

I'd also take Republican upset about cutting the deficit a lot more seriously if one of their essential budget demands wasn't to cut taxes for the richest 5% of the country. The right must really be concerned about debt if they're willing to close off such a large source of income just to keep the base happy.
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.72
But I thought the GOP 's base was the stupid redneck racists with the gun rack on the back if their pick up truck's rear window.


And yes we are adding the costs of the wars to the budget.
I take it you missed that story about how Obama's spending already surpassed the entire cost of both wars.

I'm not saying the GOP is perfect, but trying to stop the spendingof money we don't have is a pretty smart idea.

And if you're worried about the GOP wanting the rich to get a tax cut, you must be fuming at Obama's latest words about cutting corporate taxes.
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 58 days
Last activity: 56 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.86
I think simplifying corporate taxes by closing loopholes and maintaining a single tax rate is a good idea. If that can be made to work without a significant reduction in corporate tax money flowing in then so be it.

Again, it was fine for the GOP to run up debt whilst in office for things like defence spending, but try to provide healthcare for the poor and you're an evil fascist community Muslim terrorist sympathiser. Like DrDirt said, let the Tea Party babies have their bottle. See how quickly things fall apart. Do you doubt that the poorer half of the country would be much worse off?

StaggerLee, you're an intelligent guy. Can you honestly say you're happy with the screeching anger and violent rhetoric and insults that's hijacked the current Republican party? Of the two parties, at least one has tried to engage in adult dialogue over the past two years.
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.72
I am a libertarian.
I believe in a limited, fiscally sound federal government.

I know the GOP has very few elected politicians that participate in the screeching. Bachman us an idiot. Palin isn't in office, and has half the GOP hating her for making the rest of them appear to be idiots. There's what, 600 or so congressmen? Of that four it five are vocal in their hatred of Obama.

That doesn't mean all of them feel that way or agree with the hyperbole that dominates headlines.

Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 51 min.
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.47
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    And yes we are adding the costs of the wars to the budget.
    I take it you missed that story about how Obama's spending already surpassed the entire cost of both wars.



Does that spending story figure the returns with interest paid by bailed-out financial companies and GM? I assume that story regarded the federal budget's revenue, not just expenditure.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
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The real plus for the US in this is that is may allow us to correctly claim that US cattle do not have Mad Cow disease. And if you are worried about your ground beef, but locally processed whenever possible, particularly from smaller meat packers.
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