Spoilers, but seems like it's okay at this point...
Originally posted by lotjxThe first third of the movie was amazing. Once we find its Khan, the movie becomes a weird homage/one upsmenship. There it fails. You cannot top the untoppable. They did a great job with making it Kirk dying, but there is no weight there. In WOFK when Spock dies there is years of friendship between Kirk and Spock, here is just two guys who are becoming friends. This needed to be saved for a third movie. So, it is no wonder people laughed at Spock shouting Khan.
Yeah, while I don't know if it was necessarily one-upsmanship, there was really no weight to Kirk "dying" and, even with the shallow Kirk/Spock relationship, I never bought for a second that they were actually killing off Kirk.
The whole scene would have been better had Kirk been horribly injured/maimed in some way (or a broken back, or something), being on death's door, and Spock managing to save both Kirk and getting Cumberbatch. Bring people back from the dead via Magic Blood is too easy and simple of a solution. At least with Search for Spock, they needed the magic of an ENTIRE PLANET being brought to life to save him. You know, things that don't happen every day.
The Khan reveal was obvious going in, and I was really hoping they wouldn't do it, but when they did, I was like, "Okay. Space Seed, whatever." Using Robocop as the justification for it worked for me, and I liked that they actually captured him and didn't feel like they had to kill him off. Keeping him in extended chryo-sleep is a great resolution, too, as that's how Space Seed would have ideally ended. Now, Khan is out of the way and won't necessarily have to come back for revenge down the road.
The second half was better than the first hour, though. Holy crap, I was not on board for the first act.
They spent an entire movie building up to Kirk becoming Captain, and then in this movie, he's stripped of it, then reinstated in about 15 minutes. I get the internal logic in the story, but it just seemed unnecessary. I also wasn't a fan of Scotty resigning, as I don't see why Kirk wouldn't trust him in that situation. They don't need to mess with the roles they spent the whole first movie getting into. This movie should have been them, as the crew already together, dealing with the issue.
Kinda mad about Pike, too.
But yeah, once we got past that first hour, it was a fun action movie again and I was able to get into it. Wonder what they're going to do with the movie series now.
So Spock needs to chase down Khan despite having 72 other frozen superdonors right to hand...why? And now they can cure death that's basically 90% of the universe's problems solved, right? And we can beam from Earth to Qo'Nos so starships are pretty much useless except for long-range, deep space missions, correct?
Originally posted by Amos CochranSo Spock needs to chase down Khan despite having 72 other frozen superdonors right to hand...why?
Roberto Orci answered this often asked question in trekmovie.com:
Originally posted by boborciOther are frozen, time is of the essence, Bones said they could die if he wakes them up without proper tech/sequencing, and he KNOWS what K’s blood can do. He knows nothing about the others.
Damon Lindelof admits 'Star Trek' strip down was 'gratuitous,' 'misogynistic' moment
LOS ANGELES - "Star Trek Into Darkness" co-writer Damon Lindelof has kind of, sort of apologized for anyone offended by the gratuitous display of Alice Eve's nearly-naked body in movie theaters (and the movie's marketing) around the world.
"I copped to the fact that we should have done a better job of not being gratuitous in our representation of a barely clothed actress," Lindelof wrote on Twitter on Monday night.
Given the fact the image in question was featured in numerous trailers leading up to last week's release, moviegoers knew Alice Eve's character, Dr. Carol Marcus, was stripping down at some point.
But when the moment finally arrives, viewers were left wondering why it was ever written or shot, other than possible blatant attempt to inject the Paramount franchise with some sex appeal.
Lindelof didn't ease any critics'' suspicions when trading emails with MTV's Josh Horowitz.
"I feel like I have to start with the biggest mystery/conversation that's surrounded the film from the get go," Horowitz wrote. "Why is Alice Eve in her underwear at one point?"
"Why is Alice Eve in her underwear, gratuitously and unnecessarily, without any real effort made as to why in God's name she would undress in that circumstance?" Lindelof responded. "Well there's a very good answer for that. But I'm not telling you what it is. Because... uh... MYSTERY?"
In the film, Marcus undresses behind Kirk (Chris Pine) while changing into a suit more appropriate for the climate outside of the Enterprise. Even though she tells Kirk to turn around, the curious womanizer can't help but sneak a peek at the scientist's body.
While addressing the issue to his Twitter followers, Lindelof compared the scantily-clad scene to others in both "Star Trek" movies where Kirk was in his skivvies.
"We also had Kirk shirtless in underpants in both movies. Do not want to make light of something that some construe as misogynistic," Lindelof continued to tweet. "What I'm saying is I hear you, I take responsibility and will be more mindful in the future."
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
Star Trek, especially the original series, has a long history of Orion slave girls and space women in all manner of being undressed but five seconds of Alice Eve in her underwear is something people are complaining about? But no one minds the threesome with the cat ladies Kirk had at the start of the movie? People are ridiculous.
Originally posted by John OrquiolaStar Trek, especially the original series, has a long history of Orion slave girls and space women in all manner of being undressed but five seconds of Alice Eve in her underwear is something people are complaining about? But no one minds the threesome with the cat ladies Kirk had at the start of the movie? People are ridiculous.
I think when it comes to Kirk, the fans give him a pass. I do think the new movies over dramatize his sexual abilities. Not that makes it better. The thing with Carol is in TWOK, she was a smart, sophisticated and OK looking for a middle aged woman. Here Carol is sexy and that is about it. She does not do anything super smart quite the opposite, she is naive and is a chew toy for the villains. Its more of a disservice to an important character.
(edited by lotjx on 22.5.13 1038) The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
More like feminist and manginas are offended. Kirk was sexualized in the beginning of both movies but no one makes a fuss about that because it's a guy. It's a one-sided and minor silly thing to complain about in this movie.
It makes sense for the over-sexed and curious nature of Kirk to turn around and look at the woman he knows is undressing behind him. We are just seeing what he is seeing.
(edited by CruelAngel777 on 22.5.13 0845) I believe in The Shield....
I love that now there *has* to be a Beastie Boys song in every new Trek film. May I suggest "The Brouhaha" next time?
"Communicator check one two one two This is Bones McCoy on a line to Sulu Set the bullshit to warp factor one Check your tri-corder set your phaser to stun" - MCA
As a longtime very casual Trek fan, I even caught the references to Nurse Chapel and Harry Mudd in this one.
Yes I knew Cumberbatch was really Khaaaann but I had no idea what Robocop's role was, or that he was going to be a bad guy too, or that there were going to be some very eerie parallels to drone warfare, especially considering what was just in the news this week.
Also - BILL HADER as the voice of the other ship! How awesome was that? The closest we'll ever get to a big screen Laser Cats film...
Originally posted by Mr Heel III about fell out of my chair laughing at "KHAAAAAAAAN!"
I keep hearing this and I don't understand why? It was moment Spock finally lets his human half out because his best friend is dead. What is so funny/bad about this? I you have the one best friend in the world die in front of you, you'd probably scream out in pain as well, and Spocks pain was pointed towards Kahn. It makes perfect sense.
It's a twist on the second Star Trek film, where Kirk is the one yelling "KHAAAAAAAN!"
Originally posted by CruelAngel777More like feminist and manginas are offended. Kirk was sexualized in the beginning of both movies but no one makes a fuss about that because it's a guy. It's a one-sided and minor silly thing to complain about in this movie. (edited by CruelAngel777 on 22.5.13 0845)
Kirk is the star of the movie and has way more to do than just stand around with his shirt off. Marcus is essentially the female lead in this, and her big moment is stripping off for no reason - literally no reason is given! - and posing in her underwear. She's not a character, she's a screaming pair of tits. I think the reaction is overblown too, but the use of her is pretty dumb.
There's enough action and blinking lights to keep folks distracted from the gaping plot holes that it's entertaining enough while sitting in the theater. Abrams is really trying way too hard to have it both ways - to forge new ground while appealing to fans of the original series - and it's creating these fairly laughable 'KHAAAAANNNN!' moments that make no sense or have no place in the film.
But I did like the overall plot and the whole 'drone program' analogies were pretty cool. I just wish he wouldn't have gotten lazy in the details.
Originally posted by John OrquiolaStar Trek, especially the original series, has a long history of Orion slave girls and space women in all manner of being undressed but five seconds of Alice Eve in her underwear is something people are complaining about?
Unlike Orion slave girls or 'space women' (really?), accomplished physicists working in a military capacity do not dress like Victoria's Secret models underneath their official uniforms - nor are they likely to 'strike a pose' the moment some creep takes a peak. It's lazy, gratuitous and totally demeaning to the character (who largely served no function at all except to get her leg broken and watch her dad die).
I don't recall, was Uhura ever in uniform during the movie? Star Fleet dresses are kinda short, going all the way back to TOS.
"Tattoos are the mullets of the aughts." - Mike Naimark
"Don't stop after beating the swords into ploughshares, don't stop! Go on beating and make musical instruments out of them. Whoever wants to make war again will have to turn them into ploughshares first" - Yehuda Amichai
This thread needs a bump. I'll comment briefly for the moment, and return when I've got the chance to kinda' expound on my thoughts on this great, GREAT TV series. What could I possibly say that would do justice to Doctor WHO and Torchwood?