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The W - Current Events & Politics - Speaking of "smoking guns"
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godking
Chourico








Since: 20.10.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 3963 days
Last activity: 3909 days
#1 Posted on
Paul Wolfowitz admits that oil was a motivating factor in the Iraq war

"Let's look at it simply. The most important difference between North Korea and Iraq is that economically, we just had no choice in Iraq. The country swims on a sea of oil."

First Wolfowitz says that the adminstration chose to hype WMDs as a "bureaucratic excuse" for war, and now this. Do the Dems have pictures of him having sex with a horse or something? Cos this sort of thing is electoral gold for them.
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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1327 days
Last activity: 1124 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
1. Haven't we beaten this dead horse?

2. Other than the Guardian, I have never seen or heard of this quote and after doing a quick Google News search, still don't see it.



"You will never get that TV show. You'll never, ever get the Republican TV show. The Writers Guild of America, my union, is at a minimum, 99 percent leftist liberal and, like me, socialist. And we don't know how to write it. We don't."
- Lawrence O'Donnell, former Capitol Hill aide; co-producer/executive story editor/writer for "The West Wing"; and, creator/Executive Producer of "Mister Sterling" on why Republicans and conservatives are "practically invisible" on TV during CNN's "Relibable Sources", 3/25.
godking
Chourico








Since: 20.10.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 3963 days
Last activity: 3909 days
#3 Posted on
Haven't we beaten this dead horse?

When Joe Left Wingnut In The Street With A Sign says "it was all about oil" that's one thing. When the US deputy defense secretary says it, that's quite another, particularly when it comes on the heels of him suggesting that the WMD issue wasn't of importance to the administration in the first place.

Other than the Guardian, I have never seen or heard of this quote and after doing a quick Google News search, still don't see it.

The Guardian is quoting Die Welt and Der Tagesspiegel (two of the largest German newspapers) on this - and note that the story was updated at 4:30 PM today GMT or roughly eleven o'clock EST). Give it a little time - by tomorrow it should have filtered into the American news. Then again, given how the last Wolfowitz quote failed to draw American media attention, possibly not.
-proletarian-
Chipolata








Since: 29.4.03

Since last post: 4114 days
Last activity: 4113 days
#4 Posted on
I was going to post the very same story but saw little point in it, because anyone who doesn't want to face up to the patently obvious truth could just bleat their usual "LOOK, IT'S FROM THE GUARDIAN! THEY'RE EVIL LEFTY LIARS!" bull.


Look, The Guardian is a liberal rag, true. But that still doesn't change the fact that the deputy defence secretary of the United States of America just ADMITTED THAT THE WAR WAS MOTIVATED BY THE OIL WEALTH OF IRAQ. No amount of liberal bias (which The Guardian has in spades, by the way) can change the facts of this story.


To be honest I'm puzzled why he would even SAY that. What do they have to gain by admitting it?
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#5 Posted on
Great. This must mean that the tankers are on their way to Iraq RIGHT NOW to haul back all of that wonderful crude to all of us here in the good old U.S. of A.

I can't wait for my gas prices to be back below $1!!! YEAH!

Wait, we are NOT plundering Iraq's oil?

Did it ever occur to you that we can go to war with a country because of the oil, and not mean that we want it for ourselves? Oil is an extremely valuable commodity. Oil rich nations are just that- rich.

Now which country, if you are fighting a war against terrorism, would you be more concerned with? The vastly overpopulated communist nation who can't even afford to feed its own people, let alone contribute cash or weapons to a terrorist cause, or - the oil rich nation with a history of backing terrorism, USING WMDs, and refused to even talk about its weapons programs? (Hell, at least N. Korea is admitting they have a nuclear program).

Wolfowitz could have said EXACTLY what the Guardian is claiming, and it is still not proof. Fact is that an oil rich nation is a much bigger threat in this kind of conflict than a nation like North Korea. Oil=cash=checks to families of suicide bombers, weapons, and operating cash for terrorist cells. Of COURSE oil was a factor.

That being said, you can go back to ignoring the proof in front of your eyes, and go back to screaming "BLOOD FOR OIL!" I'll admit you are right when those tankers get here from Iraq, and it does not cost me $30 to fill up my gas tank.

(edited by Pool-Boy on 4.6.03 1505)




Still on the Shelf #11 - Harley Quinn
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#6 Posted on
The latest comments were made by Mr Wolfowitz in an address to delegates at an Asian security summit in Singapore at the weekend, and reported today by German newspapers Der Tagesspiegel and Die Welt.

Wow, so you're using the Guardian as a third-hand source. Bravo, godking, you've done it again!




©CRZ™
godking
Chourico








Since: 20.10.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 3963 days
Last activity: 3909 days
#7 Posted on
Wow, so you're using the Guardian as a third-hand source.

I believe that in this instance, it would be a second-hand source (the German papers reported from the source), which is the basis of most newspaper wire reporting, so neener neener neener back at you.

That having been said, the Guardian has since issued a correction for a bad re-translation from the German. Wolfowitz's comment was actually:

Look, the primarily difference -- to put it a little too simply -- between North Korea and Iraq is that we had virtually no economic options with Iraq because the country floats on a sea of oil. In the case of North Korea, the country is teetering on the edge of economic collapse and that I believe is a major point of leverage whereas the military picture with North Korea is very different from that with Iraq. The problems in both cases have some similarities but the solutions have got to be tailored to the circumstances which are very different.

Which is a lot more reasonable as a comment, but I don't really buy it because Iraq has been on the brink of economic collapse for the last five years and only kept afloat by an oi-for-food program that the Allies could shut down at will.
Ruby Trax
Summer sausage








Since: 10.12.01
From: The KZiM Tower

Since last post: 2080 days
Last activity: 1397 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.25

    Originally posted by godking
    I believe that in this instance, it would be a second-hand source (the German papers reported from the source), which is the basis of most newspaper wire reporting


Are you high? The basis of newspaper wire reporting is reprinting wire reports (edited only so that they adhere to the specific periodical's style guide) and crediting those reports solely to the wire source. This is a case in which one news outlet attributes a story to another outlet but tries to pass it off as its own, which means the outlet is not doing any original reporting and is not getting any first-hand confirmation of anything and most of the time means they have no clue and are wrong.



    the Guardian has since issued a correction for a bad re-translation from the German.


Hahahahahahaha see, exactly.



The only thing I enjoy more than doing the crossword puzzle is actually finishing it.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1327 days
Last activity: 1124 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
And by the way, the front page of the Guardian reads this

Correction
Paul Wolfowitz


A report which was posted on our website on June 4 under the heading "Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil" misconstrued remarks made by the US deputy defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, making it appear that he had said that oil was the main reason for going to war in Iraq. He did not say that. He said, according to the department of defence website, "The ... difference between North Korea and Iraq is that we had virtually no economic options with Iraq because the country floats on a sea of oil. In the case of North Korea, the country is teetering on the edge of economic collapse and that I believe is a major point of leverage whereas the military picture with North Korea is very different from that with Iraq." The sense was clearly that the US had no economic options by means of which to achieve its objectives, not that the economic value of the oil motivated the war. The report appeared only on the website and has now been removed.


(edited by Grimis on 5.6.03 1328)


"You will never get that TV show. You'll never, ever get the Republican TV show. The Writers Guild of America, my union, is at a minimum, 99 percent leftist liberal and, like me, socialist. And we don't know how to write it. We don't."
- Lawrence O'Donnell, former Capitol Hill aide; co-producer/executive story editor/writer for "The West Wing"; and, creator/Executive Producer of "Mister Sterling" on why Republicans and conservatives are "practically invisible" on TV during CNN's "Relibable Sources", 3/25.
-proletarian-
Chipolata








Since: 29.4.03

Since last post: 4114 days
Last activity: 4113 days
#10 Posted on
Geez, you'd think a major newspaper such as The Guardian would be more careful about something as potentially explosive as that.....looks like the NYT isn't the only paper with internal problems.


"Now which country, if you are fighting a war against terrorism, would you be more concerned with? The vastly overpopulated communist nation who can't even afford to feed its own people, let alone contribute cash or weapons to a terrorist cause"-Grimis


Vastly overpopulated? 22 million people? And that was BEFORE the recent famines that swept the country the past half-decade. Starving, yes, but not due to overpopulation, but the inherent economic craziness that comes with a communist government. And you're downplaying their potential threat vis-a-vis supporting terrorism. True, they don't have much money, but how can you claim that they cannot give weapons to terrorists? The ONE thing that North Korea DOES do well is weapons. They have great scientists and engineers, and missiles are their specialty. That's their main source of hard curency, selling missile technology and other arms to countries such as Iran and Sudan. They also produce ALL of their armed forces' weapons and vehicles. They are completely self-sufficient when it comes to military hardware. So the potential for the DPRK to supply terorists with either weapons or nuclear material (if they already have it) is there. But due to the fact that America doesn't dare to invade North Korea, it just hasn't been hyped up 24 hours a day on CNN or FoxNews, which is why you are blind to the reality of the situation.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1327 days
Last activity: 1124 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by -proletarian-
    Now which country, if you are fighting a war against terrorism, would you be more concerned with? The vastly overpopulated communist nation who can't even afford to feed its own people, let alone contribute cash or weapons to a terrorist cause"-Grimis

Uh...I never said that. I'd like to thank Maureen Dowd for coming!



"You will never get that TV show. You'll never, ever get the Republican TV show. The Writers Guild of America, my union, is at a minimum, 99 percent leftist liberal and, like me, socialist. And we don't know how to write it. We don't."
- Lawrence O'Donnell, former Capitol Hill aide; co-producer/executive story editor/writer for "The West Wing"; and, creator/Executive Producer of "Mister Sterling" on why Republicans and conservatives are "practically invisible" on TV during CNN's "Relibable Sources", 3/25.
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 1 day
#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    (Hell, at least N. Korea is admitting they have a nuclear program).


And what fine upstanding citizens they are for it. Let them keep them I say!


Fact is that an oil rich nation is a much bigger threat in this kind of conflict than a nation like North Korea.


Yeah, I'm much more worried about the country that falls like the proverbial deck of cards leaving behind diddly in the way of evidence of WOMD than the communists with the nuclear weapons. I mean whens that ever been considered a threat.





-proletarian-
Chipolata








Since: 29.4.03

Since last post: 4114 days
Last activity: 4113 days
#13 Posted on
"Uh...I never said that. I'd like to thank Maureen Dowd for coming!"


I apologize, I'm just so used to it being you making these asanine comments.

;)
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