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The W - Pro Wrestling - Speaking of Parallels...
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BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3380 days
Last activity: 3289 days
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#1 Posted on
After reading another poster's threat with the quotes from a wrestling magazine of 14 years past, I got to thinking about how McMahon has taken to using the "wrestling is a cyclical business" excuse for business being down.

Amidst all the scoffing at this notion and the allegations that Vince didn't learn anything from the downfall of WCW, I haven't heard anyone ask why Vince hasn't learned any lessons from his own history.

Since my own knowledge of wrestling pre-Hogan isn't all that great I'll leave any similarities to this trend from the Sammartino/Backlund era to my fellow posters to mention. When business first started to dip in the late 80s, what was Vince's great solution? More Hulk Hogan. Surely the decline in interest couldn't be because people had gotten their fill and then some of Hulkamania. No, it must be because after years of non-stop Hulk, people just couldn't accept anything less. Randy Savage or Ted DiBiase? No way. Ultimate Warrior? Ha! Bret Hart? Bret wasn't taken seriously by management as a main eventer until Hogan made it clear he was gone for good. Whenever a new act didn't instantly take off as a main event draw, Vince threw what once worked - Hogan - right in it's face. Whether it was making DiBiase and new champion Savage play second fiddle to Hogan and Andre, booking Hogan's feuds as the main event over midcard world champion Warrior, or basically forgetting about Bret Hart's first WM title defense in 1993, anything that wasn't an instant hit got cast under a dark orange shadow. The slide continued and Vince, as if unaware that Hogan's overnight success was the exception rather than the rule, was dumbfounded.

Fast forward about ten years and it's the same thing. Whereas wrestling timelines are indeed different than what they were (a feud now runs maybe two months instead of six to a year), it's the same philosophy only accelerated. Guys get a couple of weeks to get over and if they don't, forget it, back to Heat they go. In their place we get Hogan or McMahon or HHH or Nash...in other words, something that worked for someone somewhere before.

Why this is the case is anyone's guess. Is Vince's ego so fragile that he's not willing to take a short-term slump for long-term gain? Does Vince even recognize this as a pattern to be expected in just about any business? Is he really so blind that he doesn't understand the difference between past and present? Or is he content to do mediocre business from here on out as long as it means he can do whatever he feels like on any given day?

The unfortunate thing is it took seven years and someone else's idea before anything changed the last time around. It took Shane McMahon using someone else's idea at a time when WCW had both hands tightening around the WWF's throat to wake Vince up last time. So the question is...is there anyone in the company who possesses a.) the creative mind to get over the hump and stay over it, b.) the willingness to take a stand and drag Vince into the future, and c.) the stature in the company to be able to do so without getting demoted or fired? I don't think this person exists.

The more time passes the more I start to think that in truth Vince never really knew what he was doing to begin with. As much of an admirer as I am of Vince's "I'm going to do what I want and to hell with what the public thinks" life philosophy, I'm really beginning to question Vince's acumen for wrestling...considering how bad the year of Rocky Maivia was and how close we came to Chilly McFreeze, how much of that success was foresight and how much was just plain luck?
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Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
Dare I ask what Chilly McFreeze was?

Sadly enough, I think the only thing that might turn around WWE at this point is removing Vince and his ideology from power. This that will never happen, however, we could be in for a long road.



Over 1500 posts and still never a Wiener of the Day!






Oliva: You are the weakest link! Goodbye!

Stewie: Ahahaha. Oh God, that's funny. That's really funny. You write your own material? Do you? Because that is so fresh. 'You are the weakest link. Goodbye!' You know I've never heard anyone make that joke before. You're the first. I've never heard anyone reference that outside program before. Because that's what she says on the show, right? Hmmm? 'You are the weakest link. Goodbye!' And ye...ye..yet you've taken it and....and used it out of context to insult me in this everyday situation. What a clever, smart girl you must be. To come up with a joke like that all by yourself. Mmmmm...that's so fresh too. Any Titanic jokes you want to throw at me as long as we're hitting these phenomena at the height of their popularity. Mmmm? Cuz i'm here God you're so funny!


BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3380 days
Last activity: 3289 days
ICQ:  
#3 Posted on
Don't worry, Vince will get removed from power eventually...the bad news is he'll be replaced with Stephanie, who is exactly like Vince, except every second storyline will involve on-screen romance.

Chilly McFreeze was apparently being considered for Steve Austin's original character (credit, I believe, Foley's first book).
Evil Buddha
Pickled pork








Since: 10.1.02
From: Somerville, MA

Since last post: 2823 days
Last activity: 2221 days
#4 Posted on
I believe that "Chilly McFreeze" was one of the many names floated by the creative team for Steve Austin's "cold-hearted" character until Jeannie Clark-Adams-Austin accidentally got "Stone Cold" stuck in her then-husband's head instead.



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BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3380 days
Last activity: 3289 days
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#5 Posted on
Exactly. And the fact it took Lady Blossom to come up with a plausible nickname while the guys getting paid to thing of these things were coming up with Chilly McFreeze should really say something.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3264 days
Last activity: 3264 days
#6 Posted on
If I recall the story correctly, they were watching a documentary on some murderer and they kept calling the guy a "stone cold killer" in the piece. Then Jeannie suggested "Stone Cold" for Austin's nickname.
BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3380 days
Last activity: 3289 days
ICQ:  
#7 Posted on
Austin said on OTR up here that it came from his wife telling him to drink his tea before it went stone cold.
BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3380 days
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#8 Posted on
(deleted by BigVitoMark on 26.6.03 1300)
Brian P. Dermody
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Since: 20.9.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 939 days
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Y!:
#9 Posted on
I just can't see him drinking tea. Two sugar cubes, pinky out. I just... can't.



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Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2677 days
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#10 Posted on

    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    Don't worry, Vince will get removed from power eventually...the bad news is he'll be replaced with Stephanie, who is exactly like Vince, except every second storyline will involve on-screen romance.


Yeesh, thanks for the heads up. I feel a Crush Girls marathon coming on...



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Kevintripod
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Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

Since last post: 2 days
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#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    Austin said on OTR up here that it came from his wife telling him to drink his tea before it went stone cold.


I think I heard him tell this same story also on Howard Stern.



"This just got a hell of a lot better." - Stifler, American Pie
Knuf
Braunschweiger








Since: 29.12.02
From: Montreal, PQ

Since last post: 3964 days
Last activity: 3964 days
#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by Kevintripod

      Originally posted by BigVitoMark
      Austin said on OTR up here that it came from his wife telling him to drink his tea before it went stone cold.


    I think I heard him tell this same story also on Howard Stern.



He said that on Conan, too. Conan replied "It's a good thing she didn't say 'Drink your tea, it's getting a Tad Chilly.'"
Notorious F.A.B.
Pepperoni








Since: 4.2.02
From: Dudleyville's Gay Ghetto

Since last post: 4028 days
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#13 Posted on
(Someone needs to mention that Austin's wife was British. Just to shed a little light on a bizarre story for a newbie.)



It's just you against the group mind.
TellMeYouDidntJustSayThat
Linguica








Since: 3.1.03
From: Massachusetts

Since last post: 4026 days
Last activity: 3955 days
#14 Posted on
Yeah, I'm losing more faith in Vince every week. I remember how stupid everything was in the 1992-1997 era. I just can't believe the powers that be are so ridiculously out of touch. There are some bright spots (the workers themselves, minus a few) but sometimes I just scratch my head after watching a show.

I've been a loyal WWF/Vince McMahon supporter for a long time, but now I'm ready for him, Triple H, and Stephanie to mysteriously vanish.

Shane and Linda seem to be the sane ones in the family, let them take over.





(edited by TellMeYouDidntJustSayThat on 27.6.03 0003)

Tell me I didn't just say that.
SKLOKAZOID
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Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 hour
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#15 Posted on
Linda seems to be pretty savvy when talking to investors at Press Conferences, but all she's doing is P.R. stuff. I don't think she's all that involved in the creative day-to-day operations.

If I remember correctly, it was Vince Russo and Shane McMahon that helped convince Vince to take the more "ECW" style in direction. As is seen in Beyond the Mat, Vince let Shane stand by him and mentored him during that period of time, and I wouldn't be surprised if Shane had a lot of input during that period of time.

Vince and Stephanie are the ones currently in power, that's pretty well known, and they are doing a terrible job right now. Shane probably would put himself back on TV and start wrestling again, but at least he tried to make things entertaining when he was on. With the exception of the X-Pac thing, Shane's matches helped get Test over tremendously at the time. His match with Angle, while not really helping Angle get any more over, was at the very least entertaining.

Still, it seems that Shane is just as lost as the McMahons when it comes to doing anything right now. Hopefully, he's just waiting for the honeymoon to be over.

I don't know if Shane McMahon is the "answer" or anything, but he is the only person in WWE who has the power to do anything about it.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 27.6.03 0916)


"If you're asking if I would ever date a wrestler, certainly I would. However it wouldn't be good business for me to get romantically involved with anyone in any aspect of our business."
-Stephanie McMahon (Off the Record, June 3rd, 1999)
Notorious F.A.B.
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Since: 4.2.02
From: Dudleyville's Gay Ghetto

Since last post: 4028 days
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#16 Posted on
I'm all for Shane coming back strictly for entertainment purposes. It doesn't matter to me if a match gets someone over or not. Being entertaining is an end unto itself.



It's just you against the group mind.
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