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The W - Baseball - Soriano refuses to play left (Page 2)
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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.52
I really dont feel I was being silly. People were bitching that he was overrated because of his glove. So, I asked if anybody here would take a great FIELDER who was weak at the plate over a pretty good hitter, who was week in the field.

ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.77
Wouldn't it depend on the make-up of the team? If you have a team of good hitters, couldn't a team very well justify passing up another good hitter who can't field? I'm pretty that was made up of 100% 'pretty good hitters but poor fielders' would struggle to win very many games. Besides, there are too many players that are good enough at both to totally discount the fielding aspect.

I'm sorry, but I just don't think playing a different positon on the field is much of a sacrifice to make.



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Since: 28.6.04
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.11
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    So, I asked if anybody here would take a great FIELDER who was weak at the plate over a pretty good hitter, who was week in the field.


I agree with others that he's overrated as a hitter as well. However, you do raise an point in terms of his hitting. IIRC, the real Achilles Heel of the team last season was their hitting, and their line of thinking (whether he's as good a hitter as others seem to think) was probably that he can help fill that void.



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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    I wouldn't say he's one of the most overrated. From a pure stats perspective:

    5 year totals (2001 - 2005):

    Hits: 902
    Runs: 408
    2B: 196
    3B: 16
    HR: 159
    RBI: 462
    SB: 167
    BB: 156
    SO: 658

    Career numbers:

    BA: .280
    OBP: .320
    SLG: .500

    So for his first five full seasons, he's averaging over 30/30 with 80 runs and 92 RBI. Who else is doing that at second base? That's pretty special.

    Yes, he could draw more walks. He could also strike out less often. He could probably be better defensively as well.

    I'd still make sure he was in my starting line-up if I had him.

    A-Rod needs to give this guy a call and talk to him about cashing a paycheck.



Forgive me if someone made this point and I lost it in the dozen posts bickering about semantics, but you could put Barry Bonds or Albert Pujols at second base and they'd provide amazing offensive numbers for second basemen. They would still presumably be bad second basemen. At the very least, they'd be much better at their original positions.
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Since: 9.12.01
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
You're talking to a Padres fan who had to watch Bret Boone put up 15 E in 2000, Damian Jackson put up 25 in 100 games in 99... I'd rather have Soriano and his 25 errors than either of those guys.

There are worse guys at second - they usually just don't get to stick around.

It makes sense to me that the most brutal fielder at second would need to be one of the best offensively at that position.

I'd contend that the Padres post Quilvio Veras (excluding the now gone Loretta) probably have an overall worse defensive rating than Soriano if you could get a career number on the games played by the position.

In other words, I'd still put him at second on my team despite his "skillet hands". There's no way he is as bad at second as someone like Klesko would be, no matter how fun it is to say you can put anyone at any position and get results. There is a minimum threshold that has to be met, and he is apparently just above it.





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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.41
Hasn't it been continuously documented that Soriano has made zero effort to make himself a better second baseman? I realize that some guys are just born with an uncanny/insane natural ability in the field, at bat, or both. Though my stomach starts to ache at the mere thought of Alex Rodriguez, by all accounts, he's worked his ASS off to make himself a good third baseman, and it seems as though he's succeeded. I've read quite a bit in the last year or two about how much time this guy spends taking grounders, working with fielding coaches (I think he spent a bunch of time with Graig Nettles, too), and just plain busting his butt to better himself. How can that not be admired, that work being done and time being put in? Why couldn't Soriano have ever done that at second? When he was in the Yankees minor-league system, he was a shortstop, and if my memory serves, regarded as a decent fielder. Why couldn't he be a decent second baseman? No one is asking for Ozzie Smith type defense from the guy, but I think his fielding is probably more on par with Ozzy Osbourne (well, maybe Ozzy circa Black Sabbath). If he had been working all of this time on his fielding, he would have at least improved enough to make the "fine, his offense makes up for his sub-par defense" argument digestible, but at this point, IMO, it ain't.



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TheBucsFan
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    You're talking to a Padres fan who had to watch Bret Boone put up 15 E in 2000, Damian Jackson put up 25 in 100 games in 99... I'd rather have Soriano and his 25 errors than either of those guys.

    There are worse guys at second - they usually just don't get to stick around.

    It makes sense to me that the most brutal fielder at second would need to be one of the best offensively at that position.

    I'd contend that the Padres post Quilvio Veras (excluding the now gone Loretta) probably have an overall worse defensive rating than Soriano if you could get a career number on the games played by the position.

    In other words, I'd still put him at second on my team despite his "skillet hands". There's no way he is as bad at second as someone like Klesko would be, no matter how fun it is to say you can put anyone at any position and get results. There is a minimum threshold that has to be met, and he is apparently just above it.




Right but Soriano doesn't play in San Diego, he plays in D.C., where there is a second baseman that is hardly an offensive liability and is a very good defensive player, so Soriano needs to shut up, swallow his pride and move to the outfield or just not play. Also, as good as Soriano would be for some teams at second, he'd be even better in the outfield, where his greatest liability can be hidden.
Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.12
Yeah, BucsFan is right. Whether he could be a 2nd baseman somewhere else is irrelevant. The Nationals have to get the best 8 hitters they can in the lineup. Once they've done that, they need to place those players in the infield in order to get the best defensive lineup possible. There's no way he should start ahead of Vidro at 2B.

And I don't see how one year of him playing OF is going to hurt the money he makes in the future. If anything, this temporary refusal to play OF could hurt his value.



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Since: 9.12.01
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
I should have made it more clear that I was responding to this

    Forgive me if someone made this point and I lost it in the dozen posts bickering about semantics, but you could put Barry Bonds or Albert Pujols at second base and they'd provide amazing offensive numbers for second basemen. They would still presumably be bad second basemen. At the very least, they'd be much better at their original positions.


Start Vidro. I'm just sayin' he's not as bad as people say. I'd still start him most places most times despite the defense, because your overall numbers are likely to be better offensively starting a different LF than starting a different 2b.

(not every error leads to runs scoring, etc, and other arguments why I don't think he was overrated as a 2b).

Just my opinion. If they need runs so much, couldn't the get an overall better lineup in place with Vidro benched and a middle of the road power outfielder? Do those exist post steroids?



Ignorance is bliss for you, hell for me.
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1. You're assuming that Pujols really is only 26. 2. Lots of guys start out hot and fade. If Pujols has 35 at the all-star break, the coverage will heat up.
- Crimedog, Albert Pujols (2006)
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