Sec19Row53
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|  #1 Posted on 15.3.07 1035.28 | Instant Rating: 7.12 | I saw this in the TV notes column in today's Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (since I'll be home watching the NCAA Tournament tomorrow, I'll have to see what this is about):
IT SOUNDS INTERESTING: The e-mail Wednesday afternoon from "Jeopardy!" senior publicist Jeff Ritter is a pretty tantalizing promo for something that's supposed to happen on Friday's episode of the syndicated quiz show:
"It was such a remarkable event we consulted a Game Theory expert and he said it may never happen again!
"I wish I could give you more information about this special show, unfortunately, I can only encourage you and your valuable readers to watch Friday's program. Alex Trebek and our producers remain mum and I, myself, have been sworn to secrecy."
And let's just hope Jeff is being straight with us.
PS - I hope my Jeopardy! thread icon works| Promote this thread! |           | Gugs
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| #2 Posted on 15.3.07 1052.31 | Instant Rating: 4.99 | I smell a three-way tie at 0. Or, at the opposite end of the spectrum, somebody runs the whole table and walks away with $566,400.
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| #3 Posted on 15.3.07 1059.01 | Instant Rating: 5.15 | Originally posted by Gugs
I smell a three-way tie at 0.
I'm pretty sure I've seen that happen before. I'm betting on something more akin to the latter. | Reverend J Shaft
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| #4 Posted on 15.3.07 1134.06 | Instant Rating: 4.88 | | My guess is it's neither of those. I bet they would have already run odds on the chances of either of those events since those are two scenarios which most people would think of as an anomaly. I think it's probably some situation that has never been thought of before (thus I can't venture a guess as to what exactly it is). | Guru Zim
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| #5 Posted on 15.3.07 1153.27 | Instant Rating: 8.81 | Someone bet a negative amount, but got the question right and owes Jeopardy! money now.
Sign up for Folding@Home and join our team. PM me for details.
Ignorance is bliss for you, hell for me. | The Guinness.
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| #6 Posted on 15.3.07 1230.34 | Instant Rating: 4.99 | Originally posted by Gugs
I smell a three-way tie at 0. Or, at the opposite end of the spectrum, somebody runs the whole table and walks away with $566,400.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeopardy!#Special_cases
(Go to the Special Cases section)
Looks like the three way tie for 0 (or less) has occurred a few times in the past.
I'm going with the three way tie with a positive amount of cash won for each contestant. Per Wiki, "...and there has never been a three-way tie".
I don't know if that meets the the statement "such a remarkable event". Either way I'm watching. I haven't been this excited about Jeopardy since the Ken Jennings streak.
"In Soviet Russia, site fucks you." - drjayphd
| spf
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| #7 Posted on 15.3.07 1233.09 | Instant Rating: 5.16 |
Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
| According to Wiki Jeopardy's first ever tie happened on 3/16/07. |
I'm going bald to help kids with cancer! (stbaldricks.org) | tarnish
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|  #8 Posted on 15.3.07 1315.28 | Instant Rating: 6.97 |
If it was a 'run-the-table' affair, they wouldn't have had any use for an expert in game theory. The only time classic game theory really comes into play in the game is in Final Jeopardy where each contestant wagers based on their own score, their opponents' scores, their own perceived strength in the category and their opponents' perceived strength in the category. But even at that, it's a single iteration whereas game theorists have much more to say about games where there are n iterations and n > 1. Besides, in a total washout, there'd only be one person in Final Jeopardy and thus an extreme edge case to game theory.
Much more likely is the three-way tie at a non-zero score. There's some fodder for game theorists there (despite the single iteration) and it's also something that a rational observer would likely find interesting and probably notice as "special."
| The Goon
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| #9 Posted on 15.3.07 1611.26 | Instant Rating: 8.14 | A contestant makes a crack about Trebek's mother?
 | Deacon Jim
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| #10 Posted on 15.3.07 1612.25 | Instant Rating: 5.44 | Well Heck. In the DFW market, Jeopardy is on CBS at 11:30am. Thursday's episode was preempted for NCAA basketball. I have to assume that Friday's will be as well. I wonder if KTVT will air these episodes at some oter time? Off to check my Tivo guide.
formerly known as Von Erich | Roy.
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| #11 Posted on 15.3.07 1847.19 | Instant Rating: 4.84 | Originally posted by Deacon Jim
Well Heck. In the DFW market, Jeopardy is on CBS at 11:30am. Thursday's episode was preempted for NCAA basketball. I have to assume that Friday's will be as well. I wonder if KTVT will air these episodes at some oter time? Off to check my Tivo guide.
Oh dammit. Jeopardy's on at 7:30 here, and on a CBS affiliate, so it looks like I'm screwed tomorrow, too. That sucks. | Mike Zeidler
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| #12 Posted on 16.3.07 1712.50 | Instant Rating: 5.17 |
Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
 | Mr. Boffo
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| #13 Posted on 16.3.07 2215.00 | Instant Rating: 5.12 | Crap, I forgot to watch it. Hopefully my aunt Tivo'd it like I asked her to.
| EddieBurkett
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| #14 Posted on 16.3.07 2325.57 | Instant Rating: 6.77 | Uhm, in case anyone didn't see it when it aired earlier...
Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
| I get that this is impressive since its never happened before, but really, isn't the only thing of note that the last two players were both tied and within striking distance of the first guy? Clearly, he saw the possibility of there being a tie and intentionally let that happen. I'm not sure why. He should have been deducted a $1 for wagering stupidly. (Doesn't general Jeopardy strategy require voting just enough to give you 2x your nearest opponent + 1? I don't understand why he settled for the tie.) |
You believe me, don't you?
Please believe what I just said... | JALman
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| #15 Posted on 17.3.07 0257.51 | Instant Rating: 6.71 | Originally posted by EddieBurkett
Uhm, in case anyone didn't see it when it aired earlier...
Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
| I get that this is impressive since its never happened before, but really, isn't the only thing of note that the last two players were both tied and within striking distance of the first guy? Clearly, he saw the possibility of there being a tie and intentionally let that happen. I'm not sure why. He should have been deducted a $1 for wagering stupidly. (Doesn't general Jeopardy strategy require voting just enough to give you 2x your nearest opponent + 1? I don't understand why he settled for the tie.) |
I'm guessing lack of confidence in knowledge of the category. Note that wagers are done before the clue is revealed. Maybe he thought the clue writers were going to be obscure for "Women of the 30's" and felt if he had to stay on the show then he could just go for the tie. Best case scenario: both his competitors lose all of their money and the champ wins with a conservative wager.
Then again, maybe some game/number theory specialists might chime in with something better.
 | thecubsfan
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| #16 Posted on 17.3.07 1000.11 | Instant Rating: 10.00 | If he bet $1 more, he wouldn't be any worse off if he was wrong, and he'd won the game if he was right. He forced the three way tie on purpose.
thecubsfan.com - CMLLBlog | tarnish
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| #17 Posted on 17.3.07 1013.20 | Instant Rating: 6.97 |
I ended up watching this and was a little disappointed that they pretty much ended the show with, "Woah! That's never happened before. See you Monday!" They'll probably give it some explanation time next week, though.
At the end of Double Jeopardy, you have two players at 8,000 and one at 12,600 (or something like that). The two at 8,000 both risked it all, which maximizes their chances of a win assuming they get the question right. They also know that the leader doesn't have to risk it all, so if all three get it wrong, chances are the leader wins regardless of how much either of them risk.
The guy in the lead had to risk 3,401 and get the question right to guarantee himself a win. Instead he risked 3,400. You can't say that's not a rational wager, as there is no case in which he loses outright unless he answers the question wrong and one of the others gets it right (and losing can only be expected in that scenario). If everyone gets it wrong he can still expect to win as well.
In my mind, then, there are only two real possibilities. The first is the that leader didn't think his math through and the second is that he did it "on purpose." I don't buy the former -- I think he wanted to see what would happen if there was a three-way tie. Given his wager, he couldn't lose unless he got the question wrong. Further, in most combinations where he gets the question right, he wins outright. He may also have been aware that if he tied with one person, they'd both be back on Monday. But in one situation, where everyone gets the question right (and assuming both of his strong opponents risked their total amounts, a reasonably safe bet for two such strong players), he gets to find out what happens when there's a tie.
I think the guy hacked Jeopardy. And good for him. He saw an opportunity for something never done before and he took a chance on making it happen. And he really didn't have to risk anything in the process (as long as he got the question right, he was guaranteed at least a share of the lead).
| Mr. Boffo
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| #18 Posted on 17.3.07 1021.44 | Instant Rating: 5.12 | Final Jeopardy is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV9vuKfVO04
I think I have seen when a guy let the 2nd place person tie him before.
Basically, he choose to let the other two people win $16,000 and come back on Monday. And Alex didn't seem angry about it, but maybe the producers have a different opinion. If one of them beats him on Monday, then it will seem like a pretty stupid thing. But if he beats them again then the only difference will be that they got the money and a second chance.
| Leroy
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| #19 Posted on 17.3.07 1058.55 | Instant Rating: 5.84 | Originally posted by tarnish
I think the guy hacked Jeopardy. And good for him. He saw an opportunity for something never done before and he took a chance on making it happen. And he really didn't have to risk anything in the process (as long as he got the question right, he was guaranteed at least a share of the lead).
I think you're right.
If you watch his reaction, he's clearly not surprised at all, and in fact appears to by trying to mouth something like "three way split" to someone in the audience.
Edit: I guess they're claiming, based on a mathematician's calulations, that the chances of this happening are 1 in 25 million. (Boston Herald)
(edited by Leroy on 17.3.07 0904)
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| #20 Posted on 17.3.07 1226.15 | Instant Rating: 7.40 | Maybe the guy who was at 12,600 plays poker? It seems like a poker-player's mindset to consider that maybe one of the two players at 8000 would either stand pat or think through enough to arrive at the amount of 3400.
1. With both players tied at 8000, they know if they bet the max and are right they can only tie. If one feels unsure about the category, he could bet less than the full amount or zero.
2. However, knowing that the leader needs to bet 3401 to reach 16,001, which would clinch the game, and incorrect answer with that bet would leave that player with 9199, so a bet of 1200 and a correct answer would give a player who started with 8000 a new total of 9200, making that one dollar critical.
Like I said, it seems like a poker-player's mentality: if I do this then he does THAT, and he does THIS what do I do? I think your more typical Jeopardy-player would have simply bet 3401 and been done with it.
Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....
*snip*
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