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The W - Baseball - Somebody slap Jose
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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#1 Posted on


Jose Canseco, who hit 462 home runs in a 17-year major league career, claimed Wednesday night that a predominantly white media was treating Sammy Sosa unfairly because the Chicago Cubs' slugger is black.

Canseco made the charge on ESPN's "Outside the Lines Nightly" on Wednesday, in an interview with Bob Ley.

"I definitely am very disappointed in the media, the way they're attacking Sammy Sosa," Canseco said. "The way they're portraying him because he's a Latin, black athlete is completely wrong. I guarantee you if this were Mark McGwire or Cal Ripken Jr., a so-called 'protected athlete', an 'All-American' name, this would have never happen because I've seen things that some players have done, and they are white players and they're completely covered up ... if he were a white superstar player, this would never, never happen."

Sosa, who is the only player to hit 60 or more home runs three times in his career, cracked his bat during a game with Tampa Bay on Tuesday night, and the split lumber revealed cork inside the bat, in violation of major league rules.

"The media is what's destroying the game," Canseco said. "The media is what is blowing this out of proportion completely, is overlooking the good that Sammy Sosa has done for the game of baseball, overlooking a player who came from nothing and has put his country on the map, a player who has given so many things to the Dominican Republic, has spent his time in the Dominican Republic, has helped the people there through baseball.

"So this is an attack on his character. This is an attack on minorities in general, and I'm really disgusted with it. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I know that the media is a part of this."

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fuelinjected
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Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#2 Posted on
He's right, they'd sweep it under the rug if Sosa was a white superstar.

They didn't attack McGwire about steroids nearly as hard as they go after Bonds or even Sosa.
Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    He's right, they'd sweep it under the rug if Sosa was a white superstar.


I've never fucking surprised anymore by moral relativists. All Sosa did was CHEAT. God knows we shouldn't suspsend him for breaking the rules. Why not just let hispanic or black murderers walk free when they get caught redhanded.

Jesus Christ, it's racist comments like they'd sweep it under the rug if Sosa was a white superstar that keep racism alive in sports. McGwire was pelted for using Andro, but it was a legal substance. He never broke any rules. Using a corked bat is a violation of the rules. As I've stated before, he should be suspended for thirty days without question.



"You will never get that TV show. You'll never, ever get the Republican TV show. The Writers Guild of America, my union, is at a minimum, 99 percent leftist liberal and, like me, socialist. And we don't know how to write it. We don't."
- Lawrence O'Donnell, former Capitol Hill aide; co-producer/executive story editor/writer for "The West Wing"; and, creator/Executive Producer of "Mister Sterling" on why Republicans and conservatives are "practically invisible" on TV during CNN's "Relibable Sources", 3/25.
AWArulz
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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#4 Posted on
I'm the biggest Sammy mark around, but he was caught with an illegal bat that he used in a game. Honest mistake or not, he needs a supension, I figure 8 games. Why would you think 30 games, Grimis? That's not the precedent of these violations. The others who used corked bats got either 8 or 10 games (and Craig Nettles had 5 other bats that had cork in them).

Consenco is the one that says 80% of players use steroids, including him, and ADMITS he was a cheater. So why should we give an credence to his statements. And why should ESPN?

oh, yeah. They have 24 hrs to fill.

(edited by AWArulz on 5.6.03 1315)


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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by AWArulz
    Why would you think 30 games, Grimis? That's not the precedent of these violations. The others who used corked bats got either 8 or 10 games.

True that there is no precedent of elongated suspensions, I think that they merely got it wrong. 8 to 10 games puts corking a bat on the same level as fighting. I see corking as something far worse than a bench-clearing brawl because, as we have seen, it hurts the intergrity of the game, both on and off the field. Corking or scuffing can change the ability of a player, and that strikes at the very heart of the game. A very serious suspension of 30 or so days is one way to (hopefully) deter players from doing it again.



"You will never get that TV show. You'll never, ever get the Republican TV show. The Writers Guild of America, my union, is at a minimum, 99 percent leftist liberal and, like me, socialist. And we don't know how to write it. We don't."
- Lawrence O'Donnell, former Capitol Hill aide; co-producer/executive story editor/writer for "The West Wing"; and, creator/Executive Producer of "Mister Sterling" on why Republicans and conservatives are "practically invisible" on TV during CNN's "Relibable Sources", 3/25.
fuelinjected
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Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#6 Posted on
Whoa calm down big fella. I never said Sosa should get away with anything. He cheated and should be punished. I'm just saying the media wouldn't have ripped into a white superstar player the same way they're ripping into Sammy Sosa.
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#7 Posted on
To take Jose Canseco's logic to its next step, if it wasn't for the fact he has a street named for him in Miami, he'd be in Dade County jail for the next two years instead of under house arrest. Maybe when Jose is allowed to go out and play again, he can perhaps go on tour with Mike Tyson in the: We Flushed Our Careers Down the Toilet Tour '05.



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messenoir
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Since: 20.2.02
From: Columbia, MO

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#8 Posted on
Every bat but that one was clean and Sosa apologized with no temper tantrums or outbursts. Corking a bat does very little to improve one's home run ability and I seriously doubt Sosa wouldn't have been able to hit his home runs without corked bats. He should be suspended, but trying to set some precedent with him by making the suspension 30 games seems ridiculous.

Fighting does negatively affect the game by making the players seem like overpayed children pretending the field is a playground. Sosa has been one of the more generous athletes with his money, and his home run race with McGwire basically saved baseball. He has never been in trouble, never criticized umpires, he's not Barry Bonds, he is a truly nice guy.

Whether an accident or not, what he did was stupid and deserves punishment, but not what you're suggesting.
TheCow
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Since: 3.1.02
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#9 Posted on
You know, if you want to have a better comparison, look at the players who have recently been caught for corked bats (within the last 10 years or so) - Albert Belle and Wilton Guerrero. (I still say Guerrero was the biggest idiot of the three, too - another time, though.) Nobody really seemed to care too much about Guerrero's, aside from the hurting-the-integrity-of-the-game stuff that we're seeing now, too. He wasn't a big star, nobody really cared that much.

Belle was a different story - he was a much better, much more well-known hitter. While we were all surprised at that one, too, what really set that one apart was the magical transformation of the corked bat into one of Paul Sorrento's bats by the end of the night. In other words, when you think about baseball, do you think of these two corking incidents (or did you, before this week)?

Of course, getting back to the main point ... I, at least, believe that the media would have ripped into ANY upper-tier slugger the way they're ripping into Sosa right now. They're hitting him because he broke the rules (and was caught). Using race is a bad comparison because ...well, aside from 3 or 4 people, are there any white sluggers?

However, a 30-day suspension won't get handed down in this case, for most of the reasons that messenoir already said. When this problem started, if they had suspended the first guy 30 games, then you have the precedent. If Belle only got suspended for 7 ganes, how can they justify suspending Sosa for 30?







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ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

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#10 Posted on
I agree, they won't suspend Sosa for 30 days or games, and it would probably not be fair to do so. However, if they wanted to get serious about this, they could then state that from now on out, any player who gets caught with a corked bat will get at least 30 games. With the statement out, any future violators shouldn't have a problem with the stiffer suspension.

The guys on ESPN act like a 10 game suspension is stiff, but considering the season is 162 games, I don't really thing so. It would be the equivalent of a 1 game suspension in the NFL, and I don't think anybody would consider that terribly stiff.

As far as whether the bat actually helps Sammy or not is really beside the point. The fact is he THOUGHT it would help, he was seeking an unfair advantage (unless you buy his story, which I don't). I mean, even by his own admission, he thought it helped, why else would he use it in batting practice to give long-ball exibitions if he didn't think it was adding distance.

I don't think racism plays any role in this. Any player of his caliber who got caught red-handed (how could you cover this up anyway, he was busted on TV) would be in trouble, and because he is one of the top players in the game, it becomes a huge story. It's the price of stardom. As many have pointed out, Mark McGwire took a lot of crap about his Andro, and it wasn't even against the rules. Trust me, if McGwire had broken his bat on his run to the home run record a few years ago, and it had been revealed to be corked, it would have been a HUGE story.

Jose is just seeking attention because he's Jose, that's what he does.
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#11 Posted on
It's really rather stupid if you believe that the media is being racist towards Sammy Sosa. If anything is an example of why the media ISN'T racist. Everybody *loves* Sammy Sosa, despite him being black, despite him being latin. So to say that there is racism towards Sosa is just ridiculous. The reason it's being made a big deal is not because he's latin or black, it's because he's supposedly this great guy who everyone loves. I think he's actually getting crucified less than McGwire or Bonds (who is black, but not latin) because neither one of them is liked by the media. If either one of them had be revealed to be cheating then the media would just absolutely destroy them. And I agree with TheCow. There is now white player who if caught we would make a big deal about. But that's just becuase there's not any white players as beloved and popular as Sosa.

I don't know how many games to suspend him. 10 is pretty weak. 30 might be too many though. And it IS worse that fighting. First of all I don't think fighting makes baseball players look like children. A large percentage of fights comes from getting hit with the ball. So what's so childish about sticking up for yourself. Even if there is a fight, take Mike Piazza for example, when he got in a fight there wasn't people running around talking about how all the baseball players get into fights and are bad people. But what Sosa has done HAS tarnished all of baseball because now every time someone hits a ball harder than we think they should then the fans and media are going to assume they cork the bat.

As for Canseco, well admitting that baseball players including himself, use steroids isn't why he has credibility. That's actually called honesty. But the whole being in jail thing kind of detracts from everything he has to say.



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THAT IS AWESOME!
Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#12 Posted on
I couldn't agree with the title of this thread more.



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Brian P. Dermody
Liverwurst
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Since: 20.9.02
From: New York, NY

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#13 Posted on
But if Jose was a victim of domestic violence, Zed would be morally obligated to ban StaggerLee for 30 days.

When's Bob Ryan coming back?



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Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
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#14 Posted on
He's back, he was just on that Sports Reporters show today.



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AWArulz
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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis

      Originally posted by AWArulz
      Why would you think 30 games, Grimis? That's not the precedent of these violations. The others who used corked bats got either 8 or 10 games.

    True that there is no precedent of elongated suspensions, I think that they merely got it wrong. 8 to 10 games puts corking a bat on the same level as fighting. I see corking as something far worse than a bench-clearing brawl because, as we have seen, it hurts the intergrity of the game, both on and off the field. Corking or scuffing can change the ability of a player, and that strikes at the very heart of the game. A very serious suspension of 30 or so days is one way to (hopefully) deter players from doing it again.



Aw, bullcrapola. Little cheating is part of baseball. Geeze! Not that I think it shouldn't be punished, but corking, vasolining, sandpapering, leaning into a pitch, running outside the lines, sliding into the shortstop outside the basepath, kicking the ball out of the infielder's mitt on the tag, stealing signs, interfering, wearing a flasher, spiking, "accidentally" losing a ball in the vines for a ground rule double and a host of other violations all change the ability of a player.

For example, stealing signs (and I ain't talking the guy leading off from second, I am talking a guy in the scoreboard with a scope) has gone on for years. Mickey Mantle did it, Bill Veeck writes about it, Jim Bouten writes about it, and more. Trust me, when you know what is coming, even at the level I played at, you can hit the hell out of the ball. I saw what I thought was a sign stealing last week when I was watching the yanks. The boston pitcher was set and starting to move and the yanks center fielder (Torrie something, right? I don't follow the AL) glances down to third base. You don't look to third base during the wind up! He took and pitch was a slider outside and low. A couple pitches later, he did it again, during the windup. He was swinging like crazy at that pitch and put it in the gap for a 2 sacker. Looked to me (of course, I couldn't see the coach) like the 3rd base coach was relaying signs to him. But the catcher hides the sign from the coach, so it has to be picked up from center. Of course, the Yanks own that little ballpark.

If they caught, say, Don Zimmer, with a two-way radio in the dugout, how would they treat it? He'd catch a suspension and Torre probably would too. But it'd be no big deal. This is a minor deal, IMO. 7 Games.




We'll be back as soon as order is restored.....
Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
I agree that cheating has turned out to be part of baseball, but when you're talking about something like corking the bat with the explosion of home runs we've had over the past ten years, something has to be done.

Somebody has suggested that Sosa get 7-10, but being warned that the next guy gets 30. I'd be fine with that too.



"You will never get that TV show. You'll never, ever get the Republican TV show. The Writers Guild of America, my union, is at a minimum, 99 percent leftist liberal and, like me, socialist. And we don't know how to write it. We don't."
- Lawrence O'Donnell, former Capitol Hill aide; co-producer/executive story editor/writer for "The West Wing"; and, creator/Executive Producer of "Mister Sterling" on why Republicans and conservatives are "practically invisible" on TV during CNN's "Relibable Sources", 3/25.
Ryan1420
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Since: 6.3.02
From: IL

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#17 Posted on
Sammy won't get more than a 5 game suspension. It'd be a completely different punishment if they found anything in those other bats, but since they didn't it won't be as bad.

As far as Jose goes.. I stopped paying attention to him and what he says after he left Oakland all those years ago.

(edited by Ryan1420 on 6.6.03 0733)


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AWArulz
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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#18 Posted on

    Originally posted by Ryan1420
    Sammy won't get more than a 5 game suspension. It'd be a completely different punishment if they found anything in those other bats, but since they didn't it won't be as bad.



As far as that goes, let me say this: I tend to believe what Sammy said - that being said, the guy had a Whole Game to hide bats. And of course, he wouldn't give a corker to the hall. A guy I knew (I played a season of A ball long ago) who used corkers NEVER brought more than one to the park. Did they go to Sammy's place and check his bats there? To me, the most telling evidence that Sammy is telling the truth is that no one in this media-hungry world has come forward to tell us he was the one corking Sammy's bats. Because it's an art and I doubt Sammy was doing his own.



We'll be back as soon as order is restored.....
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#19 Posted on
Well, Sammy has gotten 8 games and is appealing. Considering that's less than the Joey Belle punishment, and the evidence was blatant, this should be an example of the appeal leading to a longer suspension.



I consider the switch from Pathetic to Loser to be a promotion.
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#20 Posted on

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Well, Sammy has gotten 8 games and is appealing. Considering that's less than the Joey Belle punishment, and the evidence was blatant, this should be an example of the appeal leading to a longer suspension.


The appeal can't lead to a longer suspension. Them old Union Rules. And Albert Belle corked all his bats, according to a teammate. And I thought Belle got 7 games for it. Hatcher got 10 games, but that was right after a study, commissioned by MLB, came out on Corked bats. And Hatcher, not a power hitter, was stupid enough to use one that week. Dumbass.



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Perhaps in honor of the tie in tonight's All-Star game, the 2 AM edition of Top Plays was devoted to the routine. A pop fly by Troy Glaus, a first-pitch strike by Tanyon Sturtze, hell, even Dan Morgan (IIRC) balking made the top plays.
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