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The W - Pro Wrestling - Some gripes I have with the roster split
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Since: 20.6.02

Since last post: 4807 days
Last activity: 4082 days
#1 Posted on
I know this thing was supposed to create a sense of competition, right? I mean WWE has even said that it's supposed to do that.

But how can you suspend your disbelief as far as that is concerned and take it seriously when both brands have the same Undisputed World Champion and the same Women's Champion and the same owner (both in storyline terms and real life terms)?

Speaking of the ownership thing, why did Vince feel the need to book himself to take the ownership of RAW away from Flair a few weeks ago? I mean Flair as the babyface owner for RAW was doing quite well (and probably would've been even better if they didn't feud him with Austin and later turned him heel, but that's beside the point).

I mean it at lest gave something important for Flair to do, which is more then I can say for him now. And having Vince owns both brands further kills any reason for me to take the competition angle seriously.

It doesn't even feel like two different brands, especially the way things from one brand are hyped on another brand and vice versa.

Case in point: we know Rey Mystero. Jr is coming to Smackdown in the cruiserweight division (he's been wrestling houseshows there) so why are his vignettes appearing on RAW? If Rey is a Smackdown guy, why is he being hyped on RAW?

And why did Vince announce the Rock/Angle/UT triple threat for Vengeance on RAW when it's a storyline that takes place on Smackdown? You mean he couldn't just wait until Smackdown when he could've popped out and announced it while Rock was doing his "return promo"?

Why are RAW and Smackdown stuff being recapped on the other shows if they are supposedly "competing against each other"?

I mean what exactly are they competing for? Houseshow attendance and ratings?

With Vince as the owner of both brands, he would stand to get the same profits regardless of which brand is "doing better". And since the shows are on different nights, what difference does it make if one's shows ratings is higher then the other? RAW and Nitro mattered because one show was trying to take away QH ratings from the other show and their audience.

And finally, all the storylines on the brands are built to and paid off at one single PPV where the roster appears on the same show every month, further cheapening the split.

If these brands are supposed to really be separate from each other (and are competing against each other), wouldn't it make since if each one also had two separate PPV's and a separate set of titles (including two different world champions) along with two separate houseshow tours and two separate primetime TV shows?

I think while this brand extension looked good on paper, and is helping some lower card guys get some more TV time, but as a whole it doesn't seem to be working out. The live gate revenues have really gone down overall since the roster was split in half, and RAW has really been hurt by the split.

It might be time to chuck it and put the two rosters back together whole again and do the split later down the road when WWE can plan it out a little better.

Of course that would mean the TV time problem with such a big roster would be brought up again. But why not just send some of the stale played out and heatless talents down to OVW to work with the young guys and may even find some new stuff to put into their acts to freshen them up again, while putting underutilized and fresh talent in their places on the main roster?

"Not a great worker, but one hell of a gimmick"
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Since: 1.7.02

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#2 Posted on
They had no main event for RAW because Austin didn't show up, and his storyline was supposed to take 25% of the show. That is why Vince did that match.

Since: 20.6.02

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#3 Posted on
You mean they couldn't just have him turn face and go back to playing the babyface owner again?

Is there some rule that WWE always has to have a heel make the matches? Isn't that storyline old and dead anyway?

"Not a great worker, but one hell of a gimmick"

Since: 2.1.02

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#4 Posted on

Good post, I think it should be a column. I agree that there should be separate pay-per-views for the two brands. I also agree about the Raw and SmackDown stuff recapped on the other shows.

The only thing I disagree with, is that the split should continue even though the ratings are down because if the split ends, we would hardly see half of the roster.

"Catching Hitler was neato!" "Next stop, Hirohito!"
Bart Simpson

Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 3361 days
Last activity: 3014 days
#5 Posted on
I agree with your points. Taz seems to be the only announcer who rips on the "competition". J.R. and the rest don't even hype their own show!
Do the obvious and give SD a secondary belt. Make the tag team champs wrestle on both shows. That would give more things for the wrestlers to do.
Raw should get 4 PPV. SD should get 4. Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, and KOTR should be both since they are gimmick PPV. Summer Slam and Wrestlemania should show both to end the major separate feuds.
Now the big name wrestlers would be wrestling for the world title half the time anyway and it wouldn't be hard to write a way for the others to be on a PPV. Shit a simple #1 contender match would let you put say Anlge on a Raw PPV.
With 2 or even 3 months between PPV matches there would be a lot of time for midcarders to feud. It would make the blow off when the face finnaly wins that much more important.
A match on a PPV should be important because of the wrestlers, the feud, of a good match. But shitty pointless matches thrown together on SD 5 days before or even worse on Heat is ridiculous.

I just have 13 words for you. How much wood would a woodchuch chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Since: 3.1.02
From: C-Bus, Ohio

Since last post: 5719 days
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#6 Posted on
I think the "competition" is supposed to be between the wrestlers themselves, to see who puts on the better show. I mean I see your points, but I think it's just as dumb to ignore the other product and people would just be on here going "WE ALL KNOW IT'S WWE ANYWAY!" all the time with that too. I used to hate the split, but they're putting new people on TV now, they're starting to elevate new people, they're doing exactly what they wouldn't be able to do without the split.

I am Mr. Positivity!

Nate The Snake

Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 5083 days
Last activity: 4553 days
#7 Posted on
I'm thinking, in spite of what it was initially thought to be, that they're playing the split less as a competition between shows and more of a "two separate territories" sort of thing. Both shows recognize the same champions (although their decisions as to what titles would get cross-promoted is a little iffy), but are separate entities in and of themselves.

It actually makes plenty of sense for him to be the full owner. Why own one franchise when you can own two? The shows aren't directly competing (aside from things like KOTR and the Royal Rumble) since they're going with the "Raw shot/Smackdown shot" deal with the title. Profit-wise, he can run more shows with less wear and tear on the "product", especially when you consider house shows and the buzz floating around that they'll be adding more PPVs down the line. Maybe they'll go with the "show-exclusive" PPVs like we'd thought earlier.

So far... the majority of the cross-recapping has been when it involves the champions. This week, for example, the recapping was used as a storyline device to announce the three-way match for the belt, since the title was in "dispute". That's perfectly fine. "While on the other show, here's what the champ did" makes plenty of sense.


The Rey video... Like I've said before, I'm happy to see the guy coming, and I like that he's getting the video package love, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to promote him on a show he isn't going to be on.

And the NWO/HHH thing, while a semi-interesting "will he/won't he" idea, makes no sense as things stand now.

The only thing I can think of is that they're going to have some stars (like Rock and the NWO, for example) that'll float shows aside from the champions... which sort of devalues the two belts. I dunno. Big ol' plot holes, there.

Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
El Nastio

Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 2 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.33
Gilks, you raise some interesting points in your post.

The Undisputed Champs (technically, the woman's champ is also undisputed) have a right to be on both shows because they have no peers, they have proven to be the best the WWE has to offer. One champ must overcome TWICE as many people gunning for him, which makes the belt that much more special than the others because they only have to worry about their brand. To have two seperate champs means that the belt loses signifiance....which is why the unified all of the belts.

I do agree, turning Flair heel was the wrong thing to do, but hey, we all make mistakes.

Rock's return is probably going to be played up huge, and they HAVE mentioned that the Undertaker is going to "take care of him" so to speak, so that's already one packed interview section.

Hey, attendance was starting to do poorly before the split too, don't forget.

It might be time to chuck it and put the two rosters back together whole again and do the split later down the road when WWE can plan it out a little better.

How do YOU know they didn't plan it out?

Of course that would mean the TV time problem with such a big roster would be brought up again. But why not just send some of the stale played out and heatless talents down to OVW to work with the young guys and may even find some new stuff to put into their acts to freshen them up again, while putting underutilized and fresh talent in their places on the main roster?

Because in some cases they can't. Either pride or simple logistics. Plus, they'll be taking up developmental time from the kids.

Personally, I've enjoyed the split because of whats been going, and I've been able to look away at some of the bad stuff.

- You can not tell me that Rey Mysterio Jr. would've had ~PROMO VIDEOS! for his coming to Smackdown! if there wasn't a split. Also, you really think they'd have the return of the masked "King of Mystery"?

- Bubba Ray Dudley has bene entertaining and shows promise as an upper mid-card face. That wouldn't have happened without the split.

- Rudo Eddy is back in action. You really think he'd have a shot to be a top tier heel without the split?

- John Cena would not have been able to wrestle against Angle AND Jericho in his first two matches without the split.

- You really think the rest of the developmental guys would get a shot?

- Storyline advancements for a CRUISERWEIGHT title run? whatsupwitdat? Wouldn't have happened without the split.

Just some simple reasons why I like the split.

(edited by El Nastio on 9.7.02 2331)

On June 27th, 2002, the Montreal Expos (number one on the MLB contraction list) added MONEY to their payroll, aquiring Bartolo Colon. In a time like this, there's two quotes that come to the forefront;

cfgb: "I hate to say it, but Atlanta really needs to be watching their rear ends".
And Number Two;


Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52

Storyline advancements for a cruiserweight title reign...?


Yeah, but most of the cruiserweight matches have ended up on Velocity. And frankly, I don't even know when Velocity is on-- probably on one of my work nights, anyway. But shunting the cruiserweight division to a very late-night slot is not “pushing the cruiserweights” as JR would like us to believe.

Having said that... I like the split concept, but I don't like a few of the things that have gone on. Particularly now that Vince “owns” both brands, I mean-- whassupwidat? Now they're not even pretending very hard that it's competition.

When WWE SmackDown: Shut Your Mouth for PS2 comes out, I'm eventually going to do a roster split because I like the concept. And, haha, I'll try'n do a better job than WWE has done with it on occasion.

Overall, I like the split, but I wish Flair was still the owner of RAW. Vince on both shows is not a good thing... it's... a bad thing.

(edited by ekedolphin on 10.7.02 0303)

“You bring what you got. The measuring stick just changed around here, pal. You're looking at it.”

--Kevin Nash, 6/10/96

Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02

Boudin blanc

Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 39 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#10 Posted on
The problem with the *split* is that everyone expected it to be a split. When we first started hearing about it, we thought Vince was going to try to recreate the glory days of WCW vs. WWF. And to an extent, he did try with the whole feud with Flair. But, from the get go, the *botched* the split by calling it a *brand extension*, and from that point on, the whole competition aspect was out the window.

And that's not a bad thing, that's a good thing.

Look at how the nWo, a rehash from those glory days, is faring. Hulkamania surged and ebbed. The problem with trying to recreate the past is that, by definition, its a rerun. Who wants to see the same thing they've seen before? And that assumes the WWF would have the ability to execute it perfectly, just like they've executed every other angle perfectly in the last year or so...

I'm happy with the brand extension for the reasons listed above. Maybe Raw isn't doing as well as Smackdown right now, but watching how they rebuild Raw will prove to be just as interesting as whatever angles and matches they throw out on Smackdown. And hopefully, in a year or two, when Wrestlemania is headlined by two guys who haven't crossed paths in recent memory, the excitement will be through the roof.

And as far as any loopholes or complaints about the brands working together, now that Vince is the undisputed owner, he can pretty much do what he wants. (Although somehow that pesky board of directors will intervene, I'm sure...)

So calm down, sit back, and enjoy the ride. And if you still aren't happy with the brand extension, go back and reread some columns complaining about how crappy everything was before the draft.

Or did we all enjoy Steph's egocentric booking?

Crikey... TWO DDP references in simultaneous posts... What IS in the water today???

(edited by EddieBurkett on 10.7.02 0310)

I'm gettin too old for this shit...
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Eh... Great, so now Benoit gets to job to Rhyno?
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