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The W - Current Events & Politics - SO, there's this immigration law in Arizona now (Page 5)
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StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 9 days
#81 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.60
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    The few people who have taken the citizenship test that I know (about 6) are more than happy to provide the information if asked, because they are proud that they are US Citizens.

Your anecdotal sample size of "about 6" means bupkis, and I think you know that. I could list for you dozens upon dozens upon dozens of people who are proud US citizens who would NOT be happy to provide that information if asked. People typically do not want to be accused of doing something wrong when they haven't done anything at all.

    If I asked 100 people in Arizona what they feel the typical illegal alien looked like, I am sure at least 99 of them would have the same answer, because from their personal experience, it's more likely to be true, than be incorrect. But somehow it's offensive for somebody who's job it is to enforce the law to use the same common sense logic in determining who MIGHT be committing a crime?

You keep saying the same things over and over again so I'm starting to suspect you aren't really reading what others in this thread are saying. "Most illegal immigrants in Arizona are people who appear to be Hispanic" IS NOT IN ANY WAY EQUAL TO "Most people in Arizona who appear to be Hispanic are illegal immigrants." If it makes it easier for you to understand, go ahead and tell yourself that every single illegal immigrant in Arizona is Hispanic. Fine, great. But that STILL doesn't mean every single Hispanic person in Arizona is an illegal immigrant, and it shouldn't mean that every single Hispanic person (or any other person who might pass for Hispanic) should have to go on for the rest of his life being forced to prove he is a lawful resident. Why should he have to bear that burden while the majority of white people, Asian people, and even some black people can go on ignoring that this law even exists?

Mr. Boffo: I'm tempted to take a little road trip out to Arizona right now and start telling every officer I see that I have no identification on me. And if I read the text of the bill correctly, if there's reasonable suspicion of me being there illegally that officer is bound by law to follow up.

- StingArmy
samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 309 days
Last activity: 302 days
#82 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.27
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I wouldn't care if every single traffic stop, or other interaction with a law enforcement official resulted in a verification of citizenship if that meant that the federal government was actually trying to enforce the laws that are on the books, and capture as many criminals as possible. Not one single bit.


This appears to be the crux of the disagreement. I can't respond in any way that already hasn't been used here. But please understand that this is a compromise of personal freedoms. For some it is a price they are willing to pay, for others it is not.



Lloyd: When I met Mary, I got that old fashioned romantic feeling, where I'd do anything to bone her.
Harry: That's a special feeling.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#83 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.50
    Originally posted by samoflange
      Originally posted by StaggerLee
      I wouldn't care if every single traffic stop, or other interaction with a law enforcement official resulted in a verification of citizenship if that meant that the federal government was actually trying to enforce the laws that are on the books, and capture as many criminals as possible. Not one single bit.


    [...]please understand that this is a compromise of personal freedoms.


That's the understatement of the year. What he described is pretty much the definition of a police state. Not on the brink of one, not opening the door for one to evolve, but all the way there.



StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#84 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.71
(deleted by StaggerLee on 1.5.10 1541)
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 13 days
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#85 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.34
(deleted by Guru Zim on 1.5.10 1313)
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 13 days
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#86 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.34
(deleted by Guru Zim on 1.5.10 1313)
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#87 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.01
(deleted by Guru Zim on 1.5.10 1311)
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#88 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.68
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    As always, I will leave it to CRZ to overrule this later.
Wow, and you say I'M passive aggressive. ;-)

Disabling StaggerLee's account is a gross overreaction, so that's immediately overruled. We have a whole lotta assholes on this board - and I am King Asshole! - so that's not really a good reason to punt somebody. (Granted, I've punted certain types of assholes myself, so this may make me appear a giant hypocrite. Won't be the first time.)

You (and this applies to lots of folks posting in this thread) KNOW what he's saying, and you KNOW there's some truth in there - it may be uncomfortable truth, but that doesn't make it any less true.

All this nonsense of lawsuits that are never going to happen - or will happen but never result in a dime being awarded to anybody from anybody - or fishing by Asians - or newly minted citizens walking up to police officers and happily spouting facts from the citizenship tests - really splays out the (such as it is) issue at hand, which is....actually, I don't remember.

I'd never heard the term "concern troll" but after Googling the term (google.com) and scrolling through the first hundred or so results, I can see what you've been reading lately. That said, it doesn't look like something I'd be for (unless I was doing it, of course).

To reiterate my own feelings on this matter, I love all races equally and hope to someday have all of them living in peace and harmony, enslaved under me as their consitutional monarch.

I see now that Aaron's deleted his recent posts. I wish he hadn't done that, but that's his call.

Now, back to StaggerLee. Looking at his profile, StaggerLee doesn't appear to have a history of starting these threads so I don't know WHY he thought this would be a good time to jump into the Politics forum. It's possible that he was dying to talk about this but didn't want to wait for somebody else to start the thread, but I shouldn't engage in this kind of speculation. Instead, this would be an *excellent* time for him to tell us just what motivated him to START this thread, right before I put this thread out of its misery.

Clearly we shouldn't NEED to say that posts consisting SOLELY of (some would say) leading, (definitely) unanswered questions are generally frowned upon in Politics threads, but going back and seeing that there are several of them in here, I guess I should reiterate that point.

Finally, those of you who like to repeat yourselves back and forth need to take it to Private Messages - or just drop it - a WHOLE lot sooner, for everybody's sake.

I don't mind long threads, but I don't need needlessly long threads, either. Say your piece. Don't drag it out. Don't repeat yourself. Don't repeat yourself. Take it to PM.

Does that cover it?

I guess I have one more thing - the admins here have different style, obviously. One of us tends to be laissez faire and let a lot of stupid shit get said, avoiding action until it's (usually) way too late - the other one worries that unless something is said RIGHT NOW, the general population at large MAY get the impression that the admins are on board with whatever stupid shit has been said, so they jump in with both feet. I'll leave it to you to decide which is which, on which day, but the bottom line is that we're both basically decent people who love each other as if we were brothers. That is all.



StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#89 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.71
    Originally posted by crz

    Now, back to StaggerLee. Looking at his profile, StaggerLee doesn't appear to have a history of starting these threads so I don't know WHY he thought this would be a good time to jump into the Politics forum. It's possible that he was dying to talk about this but didn't want to wait for somebody else to start the thread, but I shouldn't engage in this kind of speculation. Instead, this would be an *excellent* time for him to tell us just what motivated him to START this thread, right before I put this thread out of its misery.


This topic has been all over CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, and our local talk radio programs. A LOT of the public opinion seems (to me) to be against the law.
After reading the 16 page text of the law itself, I determined that a lot of what I was hearing about what this law "would lead to" is unfounded, and it appeared that many people who were against it, were against it because they didn't read the law, or were just repeating some of the remarks made on any of the various cable news talk shows.

I understand that my opinion differs from about 98% of the people here. I also am quite aware that I am in no way as articulate as many of the other posters on this board.
I also realize I am fairly unpopular around here when it comes to politics for that very reason (as evident by the 'asshole' and 'bigot' remarks).

The bottom line is, I was genuinely interested in what people thought about the matter. If it came across that I was against any certain race or any people from any nation, I can assure you, I am not. I am simply FOR the enforcement of our immigration laws, no matter who breaks them. But, I feel that got lost in the debate.

Sorry to muck up the board.
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