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The W - Current Events & Politics - so, the NSA sucks (Page 2)
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StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.92
I was wrong about the PATRIOT Act.

I have changed my mind about a number of things politically.

the reason I said "this administration" is because, although the previous POTUS initially signed the PATRIOT Act, it has been renewed, and when Obama did so, his version expanded on all of the worst aspects of the law, and when word comes out about the abuse, people who,for whatever reason, can't just address how messed up it is. Instead, they want to point to a guy who hasn't been president for five years, as if it is relevant.



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lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 4 hours
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
No one is going to vote against something called the Patriot Act and wait for their political opponent to bring it up as that politician being weak on defense or not be a Patriot. It is a terrible law, but if anyone thinks a Senator or Congressman is going to vote against it with a war on terror going on, think again. The best to hope for is Obama finds a way to kill it in his last year by the looks of it I doubt it. Everyone is blame for this thing. Its a monster of our own creation by electing these people and going batshit crazy as a nation after Sept. 11th.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Mike Zeidler
Pepperoni








Since: 27.6.02
From: Champaign, IL

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.25
So where was the outrage in 2006? http://yahoo.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm



"Tattoos are the mullets of the aughts." - Mike Naimark


"Don't stop after beating the swords into ploughshares, don't stop! Go on beating and make musical instruments out of them. Whoever wants to make war again will have to turn them into ploughshares first" - Yehuda Amichai
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 29 days
Last activity: 27 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.74
It sucks, but it's a little galling to hear the very architects of this slide into Orwellian surveillance crying outrage about it. I'm looking at you, Jim Sensenbrenner.
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 20 hours
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.88
I'm shocked that people are surprised by this.

Anyone who believes that only 'the other party' would do it is lying to themselves. Both Republican and Democrat governments would do this and probably have done this.
Ditto for Libertarian, and all the variations we have here in Europe.

Anyone who believes that 'they' cannot find anything you've done online and offline over the years is lying to themselves. In this day and age we all leave footprints, we've all been tracked for a long time.

Doesn't make it more fun, but I assume the info they track and research is not about wether I like blondes or brunettes but wether some crazy guy in a remote part of some remote country plans to blow up a city.
That makes it more pallatable for me.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
    Originally posted by dMp
    I'm shocked that people are surprised by this.


I think you are using "surprised" where you mean "outraged." I wasn't surprised at all, that doesn't mean that it's OK the government is doing it.


    Anyone who believes that 'they' cannot find anything you've done online and offline over the years is lying to themselves. In this day and age we all leave footprints, we've all been tracked for a long time.


The fact that they "can" doesn't mean that they should.


    Doesn't make it more fun, but I assume the info they track and research is not about wether I like blondes or brunettes but wether some crazy guy in a remote part of some remote country plans to blow up a city.
    That makes it more pallatable for me.


Well no phone call ever made from my phone or email sent from my computer was about blowing up a city, so if that's what the government is looking for, it still doesn't justify invading my privacy. If they have some reason to believe otherwise, they should have the burden of demonstrating probable cause, just like the US Constitution outlines. That or call for an amendment to the constitution.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
I would like to add, President Obama's claim that you can't keep the country safe from terrorists and have privacy is total bullshit.

The perpetrators of 9/11 did not just throw a dart at a dartboard and decide to attack New York City and Washington. I think residents of many Middle Eastern countries have very legitimate reasons to resent US presence there. But in the 12 years since 9/11, what has the US done to improve its relations with the residents of these countries? Unfortunately, to admit that is to be framed as someone justifying the 3,000+ murders committed that day, and that is just a stupid fucking argument.

Consider Robert Bales, the murderous psycho who walked into an Afghan village and murdered 16 civilians in cold blood. Does that keep the country safe? Does that make people in Afghanistan less likely to hate the United States?

I'm not saying Bales is indicative of all soldiers, but then, the 9/11 hijackers are not indicative of all Saudis, Egyptians, etc. It only takes one psycho to kill a bunch of people. As far as I'm concerned, the only difference between Bales and the 9/11 hijackers is the resources at their disposal. And if the actions of the 9/11 hijackers can be used by Americans to justify invading a country that didn't actually sanction them, then isn't it a bit naive to think that there aren't people in the Middle East using Bales and the other isolated examples of American military personnel raping and murdering people there to justify attacking the US?

I'm also not saying that means the US should take some strict isolationist approach. The US has interests abroad and it needs to protect them. But there must be some balance that can be struck. We'll never find that balance though, without actually talking about it.

The truth is, given all the top-secret information the government decides we shouldn't know, none of us here are well-informed enough to say specifically what kinds of things should change. That's part of the problem. But more broadly, we should be having a public discussion about the US' role in the affairs of foreign states, and how much meddling is too much meddling. It is only because that discussion isn't happening that keeping ourselves safe from further attacks isn't a possible ideal, and the government has to resort to these bullshit tactics, to avoid the real issue.

There will always be psychos. Sometimes, these psychos are going to manage to do terrible things. But I also think sometimes, American foreign policy is like jumping up and down and screaming at those psychos, "hey, over here! look at us!" and then poking them with a stick.

And reading my emails isn't doing anything to keep us any safer anyway.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 10.6.13 1857)
Cerebus
Knackwurst








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 17 hours
Last activity: 34 min.
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.41
I've made enough comments about flying a plane into someones house who pissed me off to know I'm on somebodies list.

The day 25% of the worlds population became a part of the internet, total anonymity went out the window. Hell, before that even, every homeless person has a library card, so you can be tracked that way as well. The Patriot Act just made it easier and legal.

I was shocked by Bush doing it but ashamed by anyone else doing it. Ashamed, yet not really caring because it's just what is expected from our government now.




Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
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Not to mention the Republicans in Georgia may not bother after the heavy loss sustained by the party on election day.
- TheBucsFan, Alaska Senate Race (2008)
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