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The W - Current Events & Politics - so, the NSA sucks
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StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
More abuses of power. Every single Verizon customer has had their phone records taken (without warrant) by the government. And word is now that ATT and Sprint gave up the goods as well.

And the feds have access to every single web server for every major internet provider.

And today Obama says you can't have 100% safety and 100% privacy.

So, our expectation to our fourth amendment rights is waived, under the guise of "Safety"?

Oh and the government shared all that info with British Intelligence.

Can't believe there are people who are making excuses for this administration.

Do you feel safer now knowing the government is watching EVERYTHING you do and say?



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Mike Zeidler
Pepperoni








Since: 27.6.02

Since last post: 107 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.25
"If you don't have anything to hide, why are you worried?" Is what people said when Bush started all this, and what Lindsey Graham repeated this morning on the news.

I have, and always will, think it terrible. There's nothing I can really do about it, so instead I will wage war with my local library because they are the most expensive in the country for no reason.



"Tattoos are the mullets of the aughts." - Mike Naimark


"Don't stop after beating the swords into ploughshares, don't stop! Go on beating and make musical instruments out of them. Whoever wants to make war again will have to turn them into ploughshares first" - Yehuda Amichai
Chumpstain
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.24
How long has the PATRIOT Act existed? Why are your comments about "this administration"?

I'm sure there is a valid issue at play here for Americans to try to solve, but it's being dressed up in the usual partisan bickering, and that's just going to ensure that nothing gets done about it.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 107 days
Last activity: 107 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
    Originally posted by Chumpstain
    How long has the PATRIOT Act existed? Why are your comments about "this administration"?

    I'm sure there is a valid issue at play here for Americans to try to solve, but it's being dressed up in the usual partisan bickering, and that's just going to ensure that nothing gets done about it.


Absolutely. I'll give people who supported the PATRIOT Act in 2001 a pass, because it was an emotional time and all that. But it was up for renewal in 2005, and anyone who supported it then, and supported the things Bush did with it, and is now criticizing Obama for this doesn't really have an opinion worth noting. Unless they're willing to admit they were wrong to support Bush's own domestic spying programs, of course. Likewise for those who rightly blasted the Bush administration for similar offenses and now want to defend these latest revelations.

But please don't mistake that for support for these actions. They are despicable and indefensible, as far as I'm concerned. But we have ourselves to blame. Barack Obama said in campaigning for the Senate in 2003 that he opposed the PATRIOT Act, and yet as a Senator in 2005, he voted for renewing it. So when the same guy campaigned for president in 2008 claiming to be about protecting civil liberties and such, we knew not to trust him, right? Wrong. Obama had plenty of detractors who predicted something like this would happen, but they (we) were shouted down by people because they were afraid of John McCain and Mitt Romney.

Unfortunately, I don't see this being enough to get people to stop voting for the Democrat Party, so as long as the party has that blank check, nothing will change. They'll just be more secretive next time and be extra careful to make sure we don't find out about it, until we do anyway, and then go through all the same crap again. This debate is a worthwhile one, but not in the form it's taking. Both parties need a major shakeup, but voters of both are too irrationally spooked by the other despite them being similar and only getting even more alike with each passing election cycle. Nothing will change.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 8.6.13 0247)
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
Good God. I agree with The BucsFan. Armageddon may be next.



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Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.13
These programs need to go. There is no legitimate need for our government to have this much information about everyone. I'm glad more people are starting to agree.

If anyone knows of any productive action we can take to eliminate these kinds of programs, please share.




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dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.31
    Originally posted by Mike Zeidler
    "If you don't have anything to hide, why are you worried?"


That's how I felt then, and how I feel now.
CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.47
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    These programs need to go. There is no legitimate need for our government to have this much information about everyone. I'm glad more people are starting to agree.

    If anyone knows of any productive action we can take to eliminate these kinds of programs, please share.
You could, uh, join the Libertarian Party.



CEOIII
Boudin rouge








Since: 25.7.02
From: Franklin, PA

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.25
He said PRODUCTIVE action.



I'm Charlie Owens, good night, and good luck.






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Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 487 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.24
(deleted by Mr. Boffo on 8.6.13 0119)
CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.47
That's the kind of attitude that will make sure nothing ever changes. Keep it up!



lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
I don't regret voting for Obama twice, but man he needs to do something that doesn't feel like big brother or he is going to be the fastest lame duck President of all time. The you have nothing to fear argument is a terrible straw man. To be fair, I have verizon wireless and local, but I use my cell all the time. I won't switch due to the price, but I am more ready than ever for Google to start rolling out their services.

No one is going to vote against the Patriot Act, its as simple as that.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I won't switch due to the price, but I am more ready than ever for Google to start rolling out their services.


What does that have to do with anything? You realize Google is cooperating with the government surveillance program PRISM, right? Facebook, Skype, Apple, and several other major companies as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 2 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by lotjx
      I won't switch due to the price, but I am more ready than ever for Google to start rolling out their services.


    What does that have to do with anything? You realize Google is cooperating with the government surveillance program PRISM, right? Facebook, Skype, Apple, and several other major companies as well.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/​wiki/​PRISM_​%28​surveillance_​program%29​


More to do with the price, to be fair everyone is involved in this. There is no way around it. Until, we actually get a Judge or a competent Supreme Court that says you can't do this then nothing is going to change. As long as there is one Judge who is blinded by the flag, they are going to be allowed to this.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
drjayphd
Scrapple
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Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.38
    Originally posted by CRZ
    That's the kind of attitude that will make sure nothing ever changes. Keep it up!


Libertarians, Greens, it doesn't matter which third party people vote for. Until the American system makes drastic changes to make third parties viable, a vote for a third party might as well get flushed down the toilet. (I'd love to see an example of a third party that doesn't degenerate into The New #2.) Then again, what's the best example in American history of a strong third party of national relevance? I'm not talking about cracking 5% of the votes, I'm talking about straight-up winning.





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wannaberockstar
Morcilla








Since: 7.3.02
From: MA

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.40
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by Chumpstain
      How long has the PATRIOT Act existed? Why are your comments about "this administration"?

      I'm sure there is a valid issue at play here for Americans to try to solve, but it's being dressed up in the usual partisan bickering, and that's just going to ensure that nothing gets done about it.


    Absolutely. I'll give people who supported the PATRIOT Act in 2001 a pass, because it was an emotional time and all that.


Why do those that passed the PATRIOT Act in 2001 deserve a pass when it was pretty much outed that they didn't even read the bill in the first place?

    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by Guru Zim
      These programs need to go. There is no legitimate need for our government to have this much information about everyone. I'm glad more people are starting to agree.

      If anyone knows of any productive action we can take to eliminate these kinds of programs, please share.
    You could, uh, join the Libertarian Party.


Meh. The Libertarian Party is just the Republican Party with a bow on it that says "we're not the Republican Party... honest".

(edited by wannaberockstar on 8.6.13 2115)
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 107 days
Last activity: 107 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
        Originally posted by Chumpstain
        How long has the PATRIOT Act existed? Why are your comments about "this administration"?

        I'm sure there is a valid issue at play here for Americans to try to solve, but it's being dressed up in the usual partisan bickering, and that's just going to ensure that nothing gets done about it.


      Absolutely. I'll give people who supported the PATRIOT Act in 2001 a pass, because it was an emotional time and all that.


    Why do those that passed the PATRIOT Act in 2001 deserve a pass when it was pretty much outed that they didn't even read the bill in the first place?


Oh for lawmakers I totally agree, there is zero defense. Even if they had read the bill. I was referring to voters, or citizens, or non-lawmakers, or whatever is the best term to capture "everyone else."
CEOIII
Boudin rouge








Since: 25.7.02
From: Franklin, PA

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.22
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Originally posted by CRZ
        Originally posted by Guru Zim
        These programs need to go. There is no legitimate need for our government to have this much information about everyone. I'm glad more people are starting to agree.

        If anyone knows of any productive action we can take to eliminate these kinds of programs, please share.
      You could, uh, join the Libertarian Party.


    Meh. The Libertarian Party is just the Republican Party with a bow on it that says "we're not the Republican Party... honest".

    (edited by wannaberockstar on 8.6.13 2115)


THANK YOU. If my problem is "I don't want to own a red car", the solution isn't "buy a red car and paint it another color".



I'm Charlie Owens, good night, and good luck.






Get your Portable ID!
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.47




Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 369 days
Last activity: 363 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.58

    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    More abuses of power. Every single Verizon customer has had their phone records taken (without warrant) by the government. And word is now that ATT and Sprint gave up the goods as well.


Well, not to pick a tiny nit, but....

Cellular Phones transmit on radio frequencies, parceled out by the government. It could be argued, I suppose, that the same government that can regulate and monitor other forms of radio broadcasts (without warrant) by law can also regulate, monitor and acquire cell broadcasts as well.

Realistically, they will do it anyway whether it is public policy or not.



Sports Director Neuhoff Media Danville, IL


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I think the only reason it wasn't is because the bridge they were on couldn't hold anymore than whatever the tallies end up being.
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