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The W - Pro Wrestling - So, Are there FANS Anymore?
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Whattaburger
Boerewors








Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

Since last post: 137 days
Last activity: 137 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.64
I'll admit, I like to check out the wrestling news and just get a basic feel for what is going on. The filler stories, columns, spoilers, and whatnot...I don't care for because they way in which they are done usually shows a lack of either journalistic integrity, ignorance/arrogance in writing, or both.

The one thing that, for the life of me, I just cannot understand about this whole IWC world in the few years I have paid attention to it is people "marking out" for everything.

I know it sounds pretty arbitrary, but what happened to just being a fan of wrestling? I mean, I have even seen some messages in other topics of this board, and other sites, where people or columnists have said they "Marked out for this celebrity" or "marked out for this show." I really don't get why people couldn't just say, "I really was excited when Shelton did the Dragon Whip," or "Gee whiz, when they referenced Ricky Steamboat, man, I thought that was cool."

I am not sure if "marking out" is just synonymous with getting excited or if the whole "IWC fans are the only real fans left so we are entitled to know every insignificant detail and use every term of the industry" thing has totally blurred and skewed those lines that separate the fan from the fanatic. If someone could explain to me the whole "mark out" thing, I'd appreciate it.



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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 hour
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.32
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
    I am not sure if "marking out" is just synonymous with getting excited or if the whole "IWC fans are the only real fans left so we are entitled to know every insignificant detail and use every term of the industry" thing has totally blurred and skewed those lines that separate the fan from the fanatic. If someone could explain to me the whole "mark out" thing, I'd appreciate it.


"Marking out" means you stop watching the machinery behind the curtain and react as an audience member. I love moments like that. That's why I watch. But when the machinery is practically brought onstage, we tend to get distracted and we start to boo the patterns of the show instead of the performances.

There are 45 official listed members of the RAW roster. In the past 2 years, 4 of those have held the big belt.

There are 43 official listed members of the SD roster. In the past 2 years, 6 of those have held the big belt.

Give me something I don't expect/dread/cringe to see, and I'll shout like a child.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.55
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    There are 43 official listed members of the SD roster. In the past 2 years, 6 of those have held the big belt.


JBL, Eddie, 'Taker, Big Show, Angle ... who is the other?





Uh ... Happy Yuletide or something ...
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 hour
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.32
    Originally posted by Mayhem
      Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      There are 43 official listed members of the SD roster. In the past 2 years, 6 of those have held the big belt.


    JBL, Eddie, 'Taker, Big Show, Angle ... who is the other?


Sorry. I counted Brock, and he's gone.

So 5 people have held the belt in a two-year span.

And really, my point is missed if I don't mention those of the RAW r or SD 6 who have already held the belt, making their reigns within that period less novel.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3501 days
Last activity: 3501 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.46
I think there are fans, but in our little world, we view the IWC as the "Real Fans." I try not to my smarkness ruin things for me, this month has gone a long way in doing that for me. However, I think that the information age has affected wrestling in a way that I don't think anyone can comprehend. You have to remember even ten years ago, no one really knew much about the behind of scenes work minus a few people on user.net or had subscriptions to various wrestling newspapers. Now, we know that stuff like Steph booking, the financial data now that WWE is an open commedity on the stock market and how is in and out of Vince's doghouse, it becomes harder to put the blinders back on.

The Genie is out of the bottle the moment you go to one wrestling board and scan the posts for an hour. You know that Orton/HHH and Taker/Angle is headling Mania, you know the chances of Rock showing up are slim to none, and you know that the buyrates, ratings and attendace are reaching record lows while JBL and HHH have been champs. Its hard to ignore those facts and still be a fan. I still love going to live shows, getting the PPVs and stuff, but its been hard trying to stay a fan when you know that minus a divorce or a locker room shake-up HHH, Taker, Kurt and Orton will be in the main event pictire. I have no problems with Kurt and to some degree Taker, but you don't like those guys, you have to feel like what is the point. Raw is doing some changes like vacating the title, but I don't think anyone believes that HHH won't have that title again by Wrestlemania.

I had a conversation on another site on which style was better crash TV or the new long term planning. I love Crash TV ie switching titles, unexpected surprises and sometimes outlandish storylines. I don't like knowing that Orton/HHH is where we are going, however they have done a good job of keeping all of us on our toes. If they could do long term plannnig and splash in some surprises, I think it will get better.

I guess it comes down to this, do you like knowing what you are getting for Christmas or do you prefer to be surprised. I think those are the two types of fans out there who have internet access. I just think it would be better for fans not to be interactive, because IWC is always going to have a negative tone about it. For some reason, the internet breeds negativity and I think it would be better for me to stay away from the net, but yet, I am here, becuase I do enjoy the interaction with other fans. Its a double edge sword.



"All faith reguires is giving into the possibility of hope."
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3206 days
Last activity: 3206 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.78
    Originally posted by A Fan
    I guess it comes down to this, do you like knowing what you are getting for Christmas or do you prefer to be surprised.


If the gift is good, its good, surprise or not. WWE doesn't need to worry about surprising internet fans because they're watching anyways. Just make the storylines and matches good and it won't matter if you know the outcome.

Knowing that they're building to something that you don't want to see is frustrating but I'd find it way more frustrating to not know and have this huge letdown when you figure out where they're going.

A great match is a great match even if you know the ending just like a great movie is a great movie, the second or third time you watch it.



"When did they pass a law that says the people who make my sandwich have to be wearing gloves? I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want glove residue all over my food; it's not sanitary. Who knows where these gloves have been?" - George Carlin
sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 1918 days
Last activity: 618 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.34
I actually left this board, my only foray into the IWC, for quite a long time. I was getting bitter about wrestling, and stopped watching. Slowly, I got my love back, and I allowed myself to start reading posts again; I agree that to some extent the IWC takes the fun out of watching wrestling. It's fun not to know who's returning from injury on a given night and be surprised, it's fun not to know who will drop the title so he can take time off to make a movie, etc. And, although I never really thought wrestling was "real," I probably know more about how things work than I want to.

However, the flip side is that I have a place to talk wrestling with -- how current storylines are going, wrestling styles I like and don't like, etc. I don't care too much for the backstage politics and all, but you take the good with the bad.
Nag
Landjager








Since: 10.1.03
From: Enter your city here

Since last post: 2121 days
Last activity: 176 days
Y!:
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.38
I often wonder if my total lack of interest in contemporary wrestling is due to the cynical attitude of the IWC that has rubbed off on me or just the how horrid the product is.

I look at alot of my friends who don't follow the Internet, yes there are still those out there, they don't know or give two hoots about Triple H and his backstage power, or JBL's workrate. They watch, have a good time. I miss that innocence.

Then again I can write a list a mile long about what I feel they are doing wrong with TV, PPV's, storyline etc. I just feel that the overall product is redundant meaningless shit, and that's ten layers above examining someone's workrate.

So I don't know, it's been 9 months now, I don't miss it a bit.

Yet, as cheesy and markish as it sounds, Therese always that side of me who loves it with a childlike passion. I can still pop in a tape from the 80's or early 90's and magically drift away to yesteryear. I still have old highschool buddies come up to me and ask me to do my wonderful impressions of Paul Bearer or Razor Ramon. Last time I was in a bar and got shit faced, I started to strut around, yelled WOOOOOO, and asked chicks if they wanted to ride space mountain.

orangeman
Salami








Since: 21.8.04
From: ...that would be telling

Since last post: 2991 days
Last activity: 2937 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.49
When I got a satellite dish and could watch CMLL from Mexico on a weekly basis, I found a place where I could just be a fan again like when I was a kid, but with the bonus of being more knowledgeable and more appreciative about wrestling. It's a change of pace from WWE and that alone holds much appeal. It's fun and the angles makes sense. I love the wrestlers, the characters they play, the announcers, the fans, the midget blue monkey mascot, all of it. The wrestling is solid most of the time (though not usually high on ROH-like workrate), but it's the emotion I feel with it that makes it great. There are so many guys there I dig in CMLL. The connection I've made to them is like nothing I have for anyone in WWE anymore save for Benoit and a few other guys. I couldn't tell you which of them is really my favorite because I love them all. The fact that I might know something that could happen ahead of time doesn't matter, although those cases are much less in number than with WWE. Like someone else said before, what's good is good regardless of that.





"I don't know why we bother, we should let you all burn."
- Basil Fawlty on the importance of fire drills.
hhhgamewmx7
Bockwurst








Since: 15.6.03
From: Eire

Since last post: 3209 days
Last activity: 3187 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.36
The last couple of times i was really surprised was when Rock came back to help Eugene and Hogan came back to SD in '03, don't know how that info didn't leak out. About the Smackdown title holders, I counted 4 from December 02-Now excluding Brock they are Big Show, Angle, Eddie and JBL. Last time Taker had the title was in July 02 when he dropped it to The Rock.
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3533 days
Last activity: 1953 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
I don't think the term "marking out" is anything derogatory to anyone. I think as wrestling fans it's just a term creeped into our lexicon... I know I used it accidently at times in non-wrestling conversations. Matt T definition of how it's used in a wrestling manner seems pretty much right on.

As for the negativity, I think it's human nature. You look at Sports talk radio or the paper there's a lot more buzz & analysis of what's going wrong & how "they" would fix it. I think having no real competition hurts in this manner as well, using another sports analogy is like having a 24-hour sports station in a one sport town. You are only focusing on one thing without an alternative to compare it to. When you had two or even three decently strong companies you will gravitate to the product you find better to get your wrestling fix & probably will have a happier attitude. But now if you don't like what The E is doing, you are out of luck & stuck with it if you are in need for some wrestling... Orange, I love CMLL as well, I think it's the best wrestling show on TV right now. As good as they are, I could see it hurting my enjoyment of it if that's the only wrestling I got & had nothing to compare it to.

London/Akio Velocity match was an amazing surprise after watching it. I was going to make a topic until I found a fellow W'er did the same. I agreed along with majority who contributed to the thread that it was enjoyable. I don't think everyone liked it just because I or Chill liked, I think people liked it because they enjoyed what they saw. With that philosophy I think people don't like something not because someone tells them not, but because they simply don't like it... Maybe I have too much faith in my fellow net fan. I believe people are smart enough to make up their own minds of what they like without what someone on a message board or a pop up site says.

(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 9.12.04 2305)


smark/net attack wienerville advisory holds at ORANGE alert - High (JBL is STILL WWE champion and now smarks arch enemy HHH is the World Champion. Major red threat, but the undercard seems okay. The alert holds... for now)- 9/19
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 29 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.66
I personally have found a way for myself to be more positive about wrestling...I quit watching wrestling I don't enjoy. I haven't watched WWE in over 6 months. Instead I try to watch as much ROH as possible and catch the random lucha libre on weekends on Galavision. And I love it. I was at the last ROH show with the second Punk/Joe 60 min draw and I was screaming and jumping up and down along with everyone there. I've stopped trying to force myself to enjoy things just because they're called "wrestling". If the product sucks for me, and from what I read I don't think I'm missing much I would want to see, I won't waste time or money on it. And now, I love watching wrestling again. And as long as JBL and HHH never appear next to Jack Evans or Bryan Danielson in an ROH match, I think I'll be fine for a while now :)



Whattaburger
Boerewors








Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

Since last post: 137 days
Last activity: 137 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.34
Thanks for all the solid responses, though I do think that the topic went away from where I originally wanted it to go.

I believe I am going to have to respectfully diagree with what Tracker and NHS had to say about "marking out." I mean, if it means that you are ignoring the stuff behind the scenes and just enjoy it as an audience member...isn't that the whole point of watching in the first place. Are you watching for the sake of criticizing its mechanics or there to enjoy watching the performance? Secondly, wouldn't enjoying it as an audience member then be called..."cheering." Like you would for any other sport or event? Again, I personally have to chalk it up to being too obsessed with this art form.

When NHS brought up the the fact that radio people and such do the same thing, there is a key difference. Most of the time, they were/are either a) ex-players b)journalists or c)journalists who studied and specialized in sports.

The bottom line is for the most part, they have some direct experience with reporting news or the sport they are discussing, whereas the majority of the IWC do not. Most of the everyday people in the IWC, I don't think, have ever been on the apron much less been in the ring and made a living. And wrestling for some squat promotion in Pocatello, Idaho on Fridays and the other days of the week you work at Wal-Mart or whatever doesn't make you a wrestler.

I don't mean to offend anyone by my claim, and I'll make my last point about my own wrestling experiences after some responses. But before, here is a perfect example of how the term "marking out" has become so cliche...


    I liked it. It was fun, action-packed, and Ryan Reynolds carried it.

    The Marvel pantheon, based on keeping in spirit with source material, [ii] quality of story & acting and [iii] fun. If I marked out while watching it, it's good.
    -


I made the bold terms. And again, no offense to anyone or to the person I took the quote from, but it is a good example of how, "I got really excited" probably could have been substituted in for "marked out" and would have held the same connotation. BTW, on Raven's latest commentary he goes on about this in detail a bit.

http://www.theraveneffect.com/frames/

Thanks for reading and responding. :)



Mmmmm...now that is a tasty burger!
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 hour
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.37
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
    Thanks for all the solid responses, though I do think that the topic went away from where I originally wanted it to go.

    I believe I am going to have to respectfully diagree with what Tracker and NHS had to say about "marking out." I mean, if it means that you are ignoring the stuff behind the scenes and just enjoy it as an audience member...isn't that the whole point of watching in the first place. Are you watching for the sake of criticizing its mechanics or there to enjoy watching the performance? Secondly, wouldn't enjoying it as an audience member then be called..."cheering." Like you would for any other sport or event? Again, I personally have to chalk it up to being too obsessed with this art form.


I've done enough watching and writing and reading to be able to see a production (film, TV, book or theatre) in two ways: watching the story unfold and watching how the story unfolds. This inevitably extended to wrestling. There are times when the story is told so well, I lose track of the stagecraft and just take it in. That's when I'm most affected by it. Other times, the craft is so cliched, so boring or so stylized, that I get distracted by it and lose my investment in the proceedings. That heppens even if I know what's going to happen, either by spoilers online or seeing the show again.

And that goes beyond wrestling. I know most of SportsNight by heart, but the "Show Money Tonight" speech by Jeremy always, ALWAYS sucks me in.

I can be wowed by magic, even if I know how the trick works, if the magician knows what he's doing.

(edited by Matt Tracker on 13.12.04 1247)


"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
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