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The W - Pro Wrestling - Smackdown Spoilers for 7/22 (Page 2)
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Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 33 min.
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.27
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I dont see what all the griping is about. YOu basically have JBL, who, since getting the strap, has been a fairly entertaining gimmick, and has put on two good PPV matches in a row, going up against UT, who, when motivated, can bring an old school match out and make it worth while.

    PLUS, you get Kurt v Eddie, which is about as good a matchup for Kurt as one could get with the current SMACKDOWN roster.

    I have lost all interest in John Cena, and its a shame, becaus he had really, REALLY grown on me leading up to WMXX this last year.


Well said Staggs. I'm a little peeved that JBL was given the World Title, but he has been pretty entertaing, plus UT and JBL are friends so maybe they'll work their ass off to make each other look good. ANd it's not like it's going to be the main event, Benoit and Triple H (and maybe others) will be the main event, and I think that is a good main event. And SMackdown might not have a whole lot of good stuff going on, but they only have to provide half the card so JBL/UT, Kurt/Eddie, Cena/Booker, cruiserweight title, London/Kidman tag team match, isn't a bad set of matches from the SMackdown side.

And I also agree that i've lost interest in Cena, at this point I would rather see a RVD title run.




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leggo
Mettwurst








Since: 23.3.04
From: Dublin, Ireland

Since last post: 3775 days
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.06
    Originally posted by thecubsfan

      Um, I know I haven't been paying too much attention to Smackdown! lately, but isn't Chimmel the ring announcer and not a referee?


    Right. He fired whoever refed the cage match, I'd guess.


He fired Chimmel for referring to Eddie Guerrero as WWE Champ last week or something. Didn't notice it to be honest. Sounds like a re-hash of the brilliant Lilian Garcia 'Is it Chris Benoit, or Chris Jericho?' angle. Great.



Powerwrestling News Central
Updated July 18th with the return of an old recap.

Leggo's Two Cents
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OMEGA
Lap cheong








Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1999 days
Last activity: 1967 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.66
    Originally posted by Quezzy
    And I also agree that i've lost interest in Cena, at this point I would rather see a RVD title run.


Speaking of which, why the hell is Rob on Velocity for the second week in a row? Remember when they first did the draft, and WWE had all the articles on their website and in their magazines about how RVD v. Eddie would be a dream match for the Title? What happened?



The answer to WWE's financial problems...

Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.
leggo
Mettwurst








Since: 23.3.04
From: Dublin, Ireland

Since last post: 3775 days
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.06
RVD didn't take advantage of the change was given. I think WWE pretty much see what I see with Rob, a spot artist who needs to be carried to have anything NEAR a wrestling match. He's good for some mid-card filler, but in the big leagues he's RARELY shown any reason to be considered a 'franchise player'. He has the talent, just not the desire and WWE have been smart having Suzuki, someone with questionnable in-ring talents but obvious conviction behind their character and willingness to improve, fill Rob's space in the US Title hunt. I have to say that since his addition I've honestly gotten a better feel for the division than I did with Rob, as everything from Cena translating for Suzuki has been THAT bit more entertaining than the mediocre stuff we were 'treated' starring RVD.



Powerwrestling News Central
Updated July 18th with the return of an old recap.

Leggo's Two Cents
Updated June 17th as Leggo says Enough Already to the IWC.
darkmatcher
Bockwurst








Since: 12.2.03
From: New York, USA

Since last post: 2734 days
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.58
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I dont see what all the griping is about. YOu basically have JBL, who, since getting the strap, has been a fairly entertaining gimmick, and has put on two good PPV matches in a row, going up against UT, who, when motivated, can bring an old school match out and make it worth while.


Well some people just don't agree with that. Don't agree that the JBL-Eddie matches have been good(watchable maybe, but its fucking Eddie out there). Don't feel that the gimmick has been entertaining, and don't feel that Undertaker can have a good match with a performer of Bradshaw's caliber. I'm obviously referring to myself specifically, but I think its safe to say that others bitching share some of the sentiment.
I have no complaints about Angle-Eddie, however.

And I don't think Smackdown was all that good last week either. I liked the cruiser show from the week before, but I'm not seeing any of these indications that SD is going to improve.
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 363 days
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.23
So, to review:

SMACKDOWN Owners/GMs:
Vince McMahon [March 25 to July 18, 2002]
Stephanie McMahon [July 18, 2002 to October 19, 2003]
Paul Heyman [October 23, 2003 to March 22, 2004]
Kurt Angle [March 25, 2004 to July 22, 2004]

RAW Owners/GMs:
Ric Flair [March 25 to June 10, 2002]
Eric Bischoff [July 15, 2002 to Present]
Steve Austin (Co-GM) [April 28 to November 16, 2003]
Steve Austin (Sherrif) [December 29, 2003 to March 15, 2004]



CALGARY FLAMES: Your 2004 Western Conference Champions
DVDs I Own
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    WWE have been smart having Suzuki, someone with questionnable in-ring talents but obvious conviction behind their character and willingness to improve, fill Rob's space in the US Title hunt

Psshaw. RVD is *over* and the fans love him, 2 things that will never happen to Suzuki, barring an overnight transformation into a superworker. Sure, RVD isn't a great wrestler, or even a good one, but replacing him w/ Suzuki is far from a good decision.



leggo
Mettwurst








Since: 23.3.04
From: Dublin, Ireland

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.06
Better to cut their losses with a mediocre and clearly lazy wrestler and fill his shoes with a mediocre but commited wrestler. If Suzuki works on the character, he'll get over no problem. Contrast his and Mordecai's dedication to the character, it's easy to see why Mordecai is down in OVW and Suzuki isn't (Now I'm just WAITING for the news that Suzuki was sent down...).



Powerwrestling News Central
Updated July 18th with the return of an old recap.

Leggo's Two Cents
Updated June 17th as Leggo says Enough Already to the IWC.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
His character won't matter if he's terrible in the ring.



leggo
Mettwurst








Since: 23.3.04
From: Dublin, Ireland

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.06
Hulk Hogan anyone?



Powerwrestling News Central
Updated JULY 21ST with a review of the second quarter of 2004.

Leggo's Two Cents
Updated June 17th as Leggo says Enough Already to the IWC.
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3615 days
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.61
Ok, there is a huge, almost planetary difference between Kenzo and Hogan. Hogan may not have been the greatest wreslter, but he was by far one of the greatest entertainers of all time. Kenzo is a Jap Hoss, he maybe a good wrestler over time, but this isn;t the AWA or NWA where they give you time to do that. You have to get over in at least a year if you want to see any chance of improving. Cena has the been the most over face for the last six month, he is not main evented yet. Eddie and Benoit only started main eventing regularly this past six months. Kenzo will not be main eventing anytime soon and he is not over. I think moving Rob who is completly over with the fans and a strong candidate for the title is better than throwing someone who still is green to wrestling and has no moveset.
The Lurk
Cotechino








Since: 7.6.04

Since last post: 3796 days
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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.56
I really don't understand why people keep saying that Rob is "completely over" with the fans. Are we watching different shows or something??

I like Rob and wanted him to get over. And he did when he debuted. But he lost it and hasn't gotten it back...at all.

Seems to me the fans are pretty much apathetic other than chiming in on the "R - V - D" when he does the points-to-self.

Remember, the fact that YOU like a guy (and even if your three friends like a guy), that does not mean he is "completely over" with the fans.

Anyhow, I'm not agreeing that Kenzo was a great replacement or anything. But I don't think it was that BAD of a thing for the E to do either.

I do COMPLETELY disagree with Spiff saying the character doesn't matter if they suck in the ring. So, Hogan is too extreme an example?? How about John Cena, then. The most over new guy and a very mediocre worker.



You got to cry without weeping

Talk without speaking

Scream without raising your voice
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 1 day
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.31
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    His character won't matter if he's terrible in the ring.


If he's terrible no it won't matter. But if he's decent then he'll do just fine. Regardless of how much come of us here may love the technical side of wrestling, the biggest draws and most recognisable names in recent years ain't been those who were the best wrestlers.

As long as someone's got a character that the fans care about and/or can relate, and they can back that up with the pretty decent matches that tell stories then the fans take to them. If on the other hand someones fantastic in the ring but can't connect with the fans for toffee, he won' be main eventing many shows.

Case in point would be the contrasting fortunes of Haas and Cena. I'd have a hard time believing many folks think Haas is the inferior of the two in the ring, but if I had to start up a sports entertainment company tomorrow I'd take Cena over Haas in a heart beat.

Now back to the RVD/Kenzo thing. RVD has been in the WWE for a good couple years now, and clearly, while they were hot on him initially, whatever faith they had in his ability to be a major player appears to have dwindled, and not without at least some justification.

While he was ridiculously over when he first came into the WWE as a member of the Alliance, his popularity undoubtedly dwindled. I know you can argue this was a result of his shift down the card, but it seems to me there's much more to it.

His moveset, which was immensely refreshing and entertaining on his introduction has shown little innovation, and has become stale to the point that his fights now are almost indistinguishable from one another. He seems unable to adapt his style to fit in with other workers and at times he's even shown a Jeff Hardy like ability to blow spots (OK, I exaggerate, but you get the point).

In spite of that however, I don't see that as being his major failing. Like I said before, the success of wrestlers in the past such as Hogan and Taker, and the current popularity of Cena and Orton shows that fans will accept and embrace guys who can put on reasonable matches provided they can get the fans to give a damn about their character.

In that respect RVD has been utterly mince. From almost day 1 in the company I remember JR writing in the old Ross Report the RVD was a guy they thought a lot of but needed to really up his mic work and intensity. He's singularly failed to do that throughout his tenure. When he was given a main event slot on the Raw brand he snoozed his way through his feud with HHH showing about as much energy as a inebriated hibernating squirrel.

Later when he had a high profile slot against the newly unmasked Kane, a guy who we were meant to believe was a long time friend and tag partner he showed absolutely zero emotion.

And at every turn and whenever he gets the opportunity he bitches to whoever'll listen about how none of its his fault and it all because the writers don't understand RVD. Sure he still gets reasonable pops, but they've tried with Rob and they don't believe he has the ability and or desire to make it.

As for Kenzo, the guys been in the WWE for what a month? Maybe less? And yet already people are slating him. Wow, the guy hasn't connected with fans inside four weeks? Sack the bugger right? Rock, Cena, Orton, Batista, Triple H, all struggled to get over for a fair old time but all seem to be doing pretty darned well right now, in spite of early criticism of their careers.

Kenzo, unlike RVD has at least shown that he gives a damn about his job and brings a level of commitment to the screen that I rarely if ever saw from RVD. Sure he's not as 'over' as RVD right now, but I'd rather see them try out a commited new guy, than a carefree crybaby who has been tried before and failed. Maybe Kenzo will be back down in OVW within a week, but I'd far rather see them try out new things than go with one of the old guard who clearly isn't commited to his job.



Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 2 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.82
I know it's been stated in the past, but RVD could really stand a good heel turn. Have Paul Heyman light a fire under Rob by saying he's gone stale & soft and has been stuck in the same ol' monotony for two years now. You don't have to necessarily put Heyman with RVD, but use him as a piece of the puzzle.

You then have some fresh feuds with Cena, Haas, Rey and another feud with Eddie (which IMO, his last feud with Eddie was when he was at his WWE peak).

(edited by Mayhem on 22.7.04 1036)



NAAAY-TURE ... GOULET!
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
Today's WWE is different than the Hogan era. Big guys who are bad in the ring don't get over. Matt Morgan, Nathan Jones, Heidenreich (who had the "Little Johnny" thing going), Kenzo, Mordecai, Tomko. John Cena is different - he developed a cool heel character, has tons of charisma, and great mic skills. His wrestling may not be Benoit-level, but he's passable in the ring. You can't say that about the guys I mentioned. Like it or not, today's fans are a bit smarter, and can pick up on when a guy is terrible. You need a hell of a character to overcome being atrocious in the ring.

And getting back to RVD, I personally don't like him, but the fans like him more than they'll ever like Suzuki.


    As for Kenzo, the guys been in the WWE for what a month? Maybe less? And yet already people are slating him. Wow, the guy hasn't connected with fans inside four weeks? Sack the bugger right? Rock, Cena, Orton, Batista, Triple H, all struggled to get over for a fair old time but all seem to be doing pretty darned well right now, in spite of early criticism of their careers.

Closer to 2 months, plus video promos weeks before his debut.

All those guys have charisma, which Suzuki doesn't (unless you count making weird faces as charisma). Outside of becoming a comedy character, I don't see Suzuki connecting with the fans. There's no reason Haas or even Jindrak (who was getting better & getting over) shouldn't be in Kenzo's spot if they're so intent on depushing RVD.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 22.7.04 1144)

dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 1 day
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.31
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    Today's WWE is different than the Hogan era. Big guys who are bad in the ring don't get over. Matt Morgan, Nathan Jones, Heidenreich (who had the "Little Johnny" thing going), Kenzo, Mordecai, Tomko. John Cena is different - he developed a cool heel character, has tons of charisma, and great mic skills.


Remember, today's fans are the ones that gave ludicrously long standing O's to Hogan, and piss themselves with excitement at the very sight of an urn or sound of a bong. But like I said right at the top of my post, if a guys utterly atrocious in the ring then he will get shat on. But if they can reach respectable levels then they can get somewhere provided they have a personality to back it up.

Kenzo as yet hasn't really had enough time to show what he's got. In the same way a football player moving teams can take a good few matches to fit in, so too can wrestlers take a while to adapt to working in a new company. Now you could argue he could start at a lower level, and I may be inclined to agree, but if they may feel doing so will ingrain him as a jobber in the fans eyes reducing his ability to be accepted as a player in the future.


    All those guys have charisma, which Suzuki doesn't (unless you count making weird faces as charisma). Outside of becoming a comedy character, I don't see Suzuki connecting with the fans. There's no reason Haas or even Jindrak (who was getting better & getting over) shouldn't be in Kenzo's spot


Haas and Jindrak? Are you kidding? They were the very epitomy of blandness when they came into the WWE and many would argue they still are. All you've seen of Suzuki so far is his ability as a comedy character. From what I hear he was originally going to be 'Big Fearsome Japanese Man' to go up against Benoit. Maybe if and when they add a serious edge to his character we'll see a different guy. The original incarnations of Orton and Cena were both pretty bland too, but character tweaks allowed them to show more of their natural charisma.

Like I say, the guy might well prove to blow goats in the long term. I just don't see the need to cack on anyone who doesn't instantly make with the work rate just because they haven't gotten over within a few weeks of their debut.



Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Remember, today's fans are the ones that gave ludicrously long standing O's to Hogan, and piss themselves with excitement at the very sight of an urn or sound of a bong

Those guys have years of history, and are considered legends. Same with guys like Kane & Big Show - both have been around long enough that they're "grandfathered" in as being over. New big guys breaking in today don't have that luxury. They've gotta show something quick, otherwise they won't be getting over.


    Haas and Jindrak? Are you kidding? They were the very epitomy of blandness when they came into the WWE and many would argue they still are.

Haas is over as a face. Over enough to warrant a push in the midcard, with no excuse not to be in the US Title scene. They really dropped the ball by not pushing him after Rico got hurt.

Jindrak was getting over & getting better. He was showing flashes of charisma. Sure, it was a Luger rip-off, but it was working.

Seriously - you're going to tell me pushing Suzuki over either/both of those guys is a good idea?


    All you've seen of Suzuki so far is his ability as a comedy character. From what I hear he was originally going to be 'Big Fearsome Japanese Man' to go up against Benoit. Maybe if and when they add a serious edge to his character we'll see a different guy.

They tried to go the serious route. All his matches before a couple weeks ago was as a serious guy. It wasn't working, which is why they switched up to what he's doing now.

And, yeah, he was originally going to get a big push on Raw, and to feud w/ Benoit & Jericho. Luckily, they figured out that would have bombed due to Suzuki, and wisely gave up on the idea.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 22.7.04 1248)


chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2745 days
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.39
Wait, I didn't see even Kenzo mentioned in the spoilers either.

Question: Is the WWE trying to use comedy to turn Kenzo face??



The inevitable WILL happen: The Big Unit to the Yankees
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Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
They're just trying to get any kind of reaction for him.



leggo
Mettwurst








Since: 23.3.04
From: Dublin, Ireland

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.06
Today's WWE is different than the Hogan era.

As SOON as I mentioned Hogan, I knew someone would have to say that.

Look, the context of how someone is entertained may have changed in the 80s, but the concept someone really getting into their character and making them entertaining against all odds is no different and never will be than the Hogan era. Suzuki has done this for me so far.

Big guys who are bad in the ring don't get over.

Kenzo is 250. He's hardly 'big'. Methinks you're just classifying him along with Mordecai in that he's new, so ultimately 'big' and 'a failure'. Thing is, Suzuki actually bothers, unlike Mordecai.

Haas is over as a face.

He is? You know, watching his match at Vengeance I SWEAR I could detact an 'apathy' chant filling the arena.

Seriously - you're going to tell me pushing Suzuki over either/both of those guys is a good idea?

Uh, yes, and your argument was hardly foolproof enough to convince me either. Haas isn't over and you're overrating Jindrak. Sorry.

They're just trying to get any kind of reaction for him.

Which is what they do for every wrestler they have?! Oh wait, he's NEW so bad. I gotcha.

Aside from this, dMr pretty much summed up my entire argument to a tee.




Powerwrestling News Central
Updated JULY 21ST with a review of the second quarter of 2004.

Leggo's Two Cents
Updated June 17th as Leggo says Enough Already to the IWC.
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