The W
Views: 97619564
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
23.7.14 2126
The W - Pro Wrestling - Smackdown Spoilers for 12 May 2K5 (Page 3)
This thread has 9 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Thread rated: 5.33
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 Next
(4327 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (70 total)
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.79
I think Rey booked as the underdog is the only realistic way to have Rey as champ. And having an underdog champ booked against the odds is fine, but this jobbing of the world champ has got to stop, especially if he loses to JBL at the PPV. If he beats JBL (which he should after this type of booking) then ok, but otherwise what is the point of him even having the belt? Man, this show needs Batista, Kennedy, and the Draft Lottery , stat. Then again, the draft didn't do much for them last year, besides cement the fact that they are the B show.



Baby, you've got a stew goin'!
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 20 days
Last activity: 1 hour
AIM:  
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by VanillaSky
    Eh, can't we wait and see how this turns out on tv before we complain?

Normally, a valid point, but I'm not sure how much you can shine up

    Rey's only offensive move was a springboard dropkick which Khali no sold. He ended up pinning Rey with one foot on his chest.

How much better can that come off on TV?



flairforthegold13
Kishke








Since: 1.5.03
From: Gainesville, FL.

Since last post: 2423 days
Last activity: 2410 days
AIM:  
#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.29
It's funny. This argument against Rey reminds me of the Nash interview the other night. Rey's a 'good little guy, who'll give you a good little match. Basically filler.'

Rey is one of the best performers of the last 20 years, a guy who revolutionized wrestling in this country (by exposing lucha to the masses) and has gotten over in every company as either an upper mid-carder or main eventer he's been in. Not many guys can say that. He's an amazing performer, bar none. He wrestles better now that he did when he was a flippy spot monkey in the WCW days. I have nothing against his ability.

Y'know, it's like this though...I can believe that Rey can cleanly pin guys like Orton, Angle, Michaels, Edge etc.

I can believe that Orton, Angle, Michaels, Edge can cleanly beat the Big Shows, Undertakers, Mark Henrys etc.

It's hard for me to believe that Rey can beat the Shows, Undertakers, Henrys of the world without bashing them with a chair or baseball bat.

I mean, I get that it can happen and that Rey has the talent, but the size and strength difference is so drastic that even if Rey wins, the audience has trouble buying into it. I don't like the midget references, but when he drops down and bounces off the middle rope it REALLY does make him look like a midget wrestler. I mean, let's go back to when Rey beat Nash, it did nothing for anyone (of course, Nash dominated the match and got pinned by a fluke.)

Saying Rey is formula, though, disregards that fact that EVERY performer in the WWE is formulaic. That's WWE style, either they wrestle the exact same style or they wrestle at the exact same pace. Their wrestling is more or less paint by numbers by design. You can really plug in anyone at any spot and have a similar match pacing wise and transition wise.

It's easy to say that Rey shouldn't be in the ring with guys that size. I would imagine their theory is that Henry and Khali only have a chance of drawing money for a very short time and need all the help they can get, while Rey isn't harmed by losing to larger guys and everyone generally figures him to be a fluke champion regardless. But if you're the champ you should look credible in there against everyone. Rey would be a small world champion in Ring of Honor, let alone WWE. It's remarkable he made it as far as he did, and he deserves it, he'll be a Hall of Famer and he'll be over till the day he stops performing, but it goes back the idea that the E didn't want him as champion and that long-range he's just not a long-term champ. I mean, I went on record saying he was going to drop it the SD after WM to Orton. I'll never know if that would have happened, but I never foresaw the dominating Rey run. I'm not shocked by what's happened here.
He got a sympathy run because they boxed themselves into a corner after the Eddy exploitation and his title reign is simply being used to get others over. It sucks but the reign was over before it began. Not Rey's fault, but just the nature of the business. At least he got a reign, we can be happy for that.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1895 days
Last activity: 1829 days
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
Rey could beat 'Taker and Henry conclusively without cheating. He's taken Henry down to the mat before, and all that would be needed would be a high-impact springboard legdrop and the announcers selling that Rey knocked the big guy out cold. Same with UT.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
The 5th Horseman
Kolbasz








Since: 23.10.02
From: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

Since last post: 2912 days
Last activity: 2901 days
#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    It's old school booking.

    How do you get a monster over? Have him come out and beat up the top guy in the company. Maybe old school booking won't work in 2006, but that's all it is.

    People have to remember that the title, now more than ever, is a prop. Chill.

Please give an example of this happening. I've been watching wrestling since about 1981 when I was 5 or 6 years old and would watch Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling on Saturday mornings. I NEVER remember seeing a monster get over by coming out and totally squashing the World Champion in a match, much less have that World Champion lose clean 2 weeks in a row vs. 2 different guys.

I have seen monsters put over by attacking the Champion outside of an actual match and leaving them laying, but never within the confines of an actual match with a clean ending.

The worst part about it is that these 2 hacks that are using the World Champion as a play toy have nothing other than size to contribute. Kane makes them both look like total amateurs.

And, just because they are using the World Championship as a prop doesn't mean it's smart and the right thing to do. The World Champion should have some credibility or it takes away from anyone that beats him and also takes away from anyone NOT the World Champion.

(edited by The 5th Horseman on 11.5.06 1607)
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.95
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      Originally posted by Mr Shh
      Can I say the same things about Rob Van Dam? Does that make Rob Van Dam a good "wrestler" or storyteller?


    Well no, because those things aren't true of RVD.


Sure they are. During the course of an average wrestling match involving Rey (RVD) that features shitty punches and other moves, Rey (RVD) may find his opponent in position for a signature move. The opponent is in position either due to Rey (RVD) forcing him into position or due to chance. Rey (RVD) communicates to the audience through body language or facial expressions that "Hey, my opponent is in position for the 619 (Split-Legged Moonsault), Droppin The Dime (Rolling Thunder), or the West Coast Pop (5-Star Frog Splash)!! I'm going to take advantage of this opportunity!" and then proceeds to execute the move. Either the move connects, it doesn't, or the opponent gets out of position and Rey (RVD) notices in time to adjust.

Very few people can perform these moves. But it isn't just about the moves. It's about how, why, when and when not to do them. Using that definition of psychology, RVD is just as good a storyteller as Rey.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1895 days
Last activity: 1829 days
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
So now the sole point of reference for a wrestler is how well they throw a worked punch?

Rey plays the underdog face, both in-ring and out, far better than RVD, and slots his signature spots into his matches far more smoothly, often doing variations on a theme to freshen things up. Rey's a better bumper than RVD, and a better seller. Rey will often attack an actual body-part, even if it's just during his big face comeback part of the match. Hell, even Rey's kicks are better than RVD's.

Bsides, who even brought RVD up as a bad example of in-ring psychology? He is, but you essentially started this debate with yourself. So let's drop it.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 22 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.86
    Originally posted by the guy who's posted EIGHT times in this thread in the past 36 hours
    So let's drop it.


Ahahahahahahahahaha. Ha.

SHUT UP

EDIT: Thank you.

(edited by CRZ on 11.5.06 1537)


CRZ
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 hour
AIM:  
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.14
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I wasnt trying to be ignorant of anything. My point is, when you put the belt on a guy who is MAYBE 5 foot 6 inches, you have got to at least EXPECT that somebody much larger would be able to sqaush him. Suspending belief only goes so far.
    ...

    I dont have an axe to grind against smaller wrestlers. My point is, when you are showing a guy who is without a doubt the smallest man in the company, you cant hide behind his "heart" too long, or people just wont buy into it. THe fact that Rey looks weak compared to bigger men who he 'shouldnt be in the ring with' shows what a poor choice for champion he actually is.
I'm glad this isn't the mentality George Lucas had when he wrote the original "Star Wars" back in the 1970's.

Wrestling has always been a game of human chess, heart, and determination. Outsmarting opponents. Out-wrestling opponents. Faces and heels using their age-old strengths and weaknesses to defeat each other.

Andre was bigger than Hogan, but Hogan could still bodyslam him. Rey may not be able to bodyslam Khali or Henry, but what about a good kick to the temple that gives them brain damage? There's more than one way to defeat an opponent, and all it takes is good writing.


As far as waiting to watch this all play out on TV, I don't mean to be ignorant, but it sounds like the same show we had last week, only replacing Mark Henry with Great Khali. I could be wrong on that, but it doesn't appear that way. I'd love for WWE to prove me wrong and show a completely different, high concept way of squashing Rey.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 11.5.06 1410)
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 242 days
Last activity: 236 days
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.42

    Originally posted by The 5th Horseman
    Please give an example of this happening. I've been watching wrestling since about 1981 when I was 5 or 6 years old and would watch Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling on Saturday mornings.


They weren't total squashes, but Ric Flair would lose TV matches in territories in the old NWA to set up matches there, but never lost the title to those wrestlers. He did this with at least two, Butch Reed and Scott McGhee.

Non-title matches are plot devices, that's all.



As of 2/28/05: 101 pounds since December 7, 2004
OFFICIAL THREE-MONTH COUNT: 112 pounds on March 9, 2005
OFFICIAL SIX-MONTH COUNT: 142 pounds on June 8, 2005
OFFICIAL ONE YEAR COUNT: 187 pounds on December 7, 2005
As of 2/27/06: 202 pounds "I've lost a heavyweight"
As of 4/17/06: 210 pounds

Born Famous, Naturally Handsome: http://eddiefamous.blogspot.com/
flairforthegold13
Kishke








Since: 1.5.03
From: Gainesville, FL.

Since last post: 2423 days
Last activity: 2410 days
AIM:  
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.29
I'll bite. I don't get the Lucas reference. Please explain?

Destrucity
Boerewors








Since: 21.4.04
From: New York, NY, USA

Since last post: 2805 days
Last activity: 2713 days
#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.14
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    During the course of an average wrestling match involving Rey (RVD) that features shitty punches and other moves, Rey (RVD) may find his opponent in position for a signature move. The opponent is in position either due to Rey (RVD) forcing him into position or due to chance. Rey (RVD) communicates to the audience through body language or facial expressions that "Hey, my opponent is in position for the 619 (Split-Legged Moonsault), Droppin The Dime (Rolling Thunder), or the West Coast Pop (5-Star Frog Splash)!! I'm going to take advantage of this opportunity!" and then proceeds to execute the move. Either the move connects, it doesn't, or the opponent gets out of position and Rey (RVD) notices in time to adjust.
This is known as the Law of Compromising Positions, as pseudonymously defined by yours truly in a rare (I swear!) fit of e-mailing an Internet wrestling columnist.



Sir, a jelly donut, sir!
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 hour
AIM:  
#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.14
    Originally posted by flairforthegold13
    I'll bite. I don't get the Lucas reference. Please explain?


The X-Wing is smaller than the Death Star.

EDIT: Wasn't trying to be a jerk, just only had time for a one-sentence response.
What I'm getting at is that there's more than one way to book a wrestling match, regardless of size discrepancy. Rey credibly won the Royal Rumble. He's credibly defeated Orton a few times, and held his own against Angle. There's a way to write a match so Rey credibly beat someone like Mark Henry, and it's really not that hard to figure out and pull off.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 11.5.06 1534)
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 86 days
Last activity: 39 min.
#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.47

    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
      Originally posted by flairforthegold13
      I'll bite. I don't get the Lucas reference. Please explain?


    The X-Wing is smaller than the Death Star.
I was thinking Ewoks, but I was never a Star Wars fan so what do I know?

(edited by DJ FrostyFreeze on 14.5.06 2135)


You should visit AlenOnline.com today
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.83
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      Originally posted by VanillaSky
      Eh, can't we wait and see how this turns out on tv before we complain?

    Normally, a valid point, but I'm not sure how much you can shine up

      Rey's only offensive move was a springboard dropkick which Khali no sold. He ended up pinning Rey with one foot on his chest.

    How much better can that come off on TV?


Considering the tendency of the guys who type up spoiler reports to lapse into hyperbole, it could come off a lot better.



"That's my problem - I'm too frank. That's why my mother shoved me down the stairs. But then she is fat."
Cerebus
Knackwurst








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 35 min.
#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.97
    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
      Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
        Originally posted by flairforthegold13
        I'll bite. I don't get the Lucas reference. Please explain?


      The X-Wing is smaller than the Death Star.
    I was thinking Ewoks, but I was never a Star Wars fan so what do I know?


Good grief, not fucking STAR WARS. It wasn't 'just an X-Wing' that blew up the Death Star, it was the pilot using 'magical powers'. The ship was just a tool. Notice no other pilot was able to make the shot?

Rey can not use the Force.
Kevintripod
Andouille








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    My point is, when you put the belt on a guy who is MAYBE 5 foot 6 inches, you have got to at least EXPECT that somebody much larger would be able to sqaush him. Suspending belief only goes so far.


Watching WWE programming is all about suspending belief, from watching Undertaker shoot lightening bolts to wrestlers surviving Buried Alive matches.

I could go on and on with examples of what is shown on WWE TV on a regular basis that is far harder to take serious than Rey defeating a much larger wrestler.



"Oh it's on like Donkey Kong." - Stifler, American Wedding
The 5th Horseman
Kolbasz








Since: 23.10.02
From: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

Since last post: 2912 days
Last activity: 2901 days
#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      Originally posted by The 5th Horseman
      Please give an example of this happening. I've been watching wrestling since about 1981 when I was 5 or 6 years old and would watch Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling on Saturday mornings.


    They weren't total squashes, but Ric Flair would lose TV matches in territories in the old NWA to set up matches there, but never lost the title to those wrestlers. He did this with at least two, Butch Reed and Scott McGhee.

    Non-title matches are plot devices, that's all.

I know Ric Flair used to lose non-title matches. I think he also lost matches to David Von Erich and Kevin Von Erich in World Class. However, there is a HUGE difference between losing a hard fought and long match and getting totally squashed. Add to that the fact that just one week earlier, the guy that got squashed also got pinned clean in a match where he got very little offense in.

Also, Ric Flair was losing to established stars in these other areas (not building up a monster as you stated before)and he always followed it up by successfully defending the Title vs. that person later. Rey is getting dominated by a guy that just showed up and another that has been around for 10 years and hasn't accomplished much of anything.
Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 349 days
Last activity: 190 days
#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44
    Originally posted by The 5th Horseman
    I know Ric Flair used to lose non-title matches. I think he also lost matches to David Von Erich and Kevin Von Erich in World Class. However, there is a HUGE difference between losing a hard fought and long match and getting totally squashed.


The most pertinent point in this argument is that Flair was a heel, and Rey's a face.

Having a face world champion lose a non-title match (especially against someone who won't take the title off him eventually) accomplishes very little. A heel losing a non-title match, if done right, makes the crowd hot for an eventual title shot. There's a big difference between the booking of a face champion and that of a cowardly heel champion.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 11.5.06 2218)

Loyal MFer...er....SPFer.


Hey look, an emo-free LJ!
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.03
    Originally posted by The 5th Horseman
    Please give an example of this happening. I've been watching wrestling since about 1981 when I was 5 or 6 years old and would watch Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling on Saturday mornings.


They might not have been world champions at the time but didn't The Giant/Big Show squash Hogan and Austin in his debuts? Maybe he didn't pin them in a match but he dismantled them. That's the only example I can think of.

Anybody have any idea when Rey's contract is up? I'm sure he probably has a good amount of money saved up, he's won the World Title so there's not much else for him to do in the WWE. Maybe he'd be willing to go to TNA where the smaller guys are featured. And lately his mic skills have improved to atleast passable so he'd actually be a good talker compared to the other X guys too.

(edited by Quezzy on 12.5.06 0120)


Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 Next
Thread rated: 5.33
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 Next
Thread ahead: I just bought...
Next thread: Harry Smith in the Calgary Herald
Previous thread: My idea for an angle in WCW
(4327 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
1) Kurt Angle has learned his lessons well. The only way to keep his title away from Brock Lesner is by sleeping with Stephanie. 2) Taker: A puppy? Aw dammit. You NEVER give up the money for what's in the box. I hate this show. 3) Hulk:...
- Excalibur05, Captions! (Episode #4) (2003)
Related threads: Batista/Booker - Booker T/Batista - Is Smackdown live? - More...
The W - Pro Wrestling - Smackdown Spoilers for 12 May 2K5 (Page 3)Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.41 seconds.