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The W - Pro Wrestling - Shawn Michaels (Page 2)
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jwrestle
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Since: 4.4.03
From: Nitro WV

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.11
Wasn't really into Micheals until he was put over as champion. I watched him evolve from a Rocker, to a In love with himself guy, to a "Degenerate", and into a man who has let his demons of the past go. Say that's a pretty full circle to be fired by the WWF with Jannety once and comeback to make such a career.



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Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.88
But where's the edge? Shawn Michaels greatest attribute was always the edge that he had. He was a bastard, he was cocky, and then he went out and backed it up. In the ring, he executes moves well but he can't cut it in the drama portion of the match anymore, because I can't believe it. He's not into it like he used to be, his performances while good are just Shawn Michaels on auto-pilot. I suppose we should be scared he can be this good on auto-pilot, but the thing is what the thing is.

I don't know if his religious conversion has contributed to this. Jericho and Guerrero are among religious competitors who, at the same time, don't assume they'll be going to hell in the swear in character. You've got to believe in what you're doing out there, and that's what's missing from Shawn these days. He doesn't appear to believe in what's going on.



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Give up?
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darkmatcher
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Since: 12.2.03
From: New York, USA

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.30
People are still complaining about Wrestlemania? Come on now. Do you honestly think Jericho has been hurt by the job, because I don't see it. And why is Shawn the asshole for it, considering that he posseses no booking power whatsoever? The fact that his later returning job to Jericho isn't enough to suffice just makes me feel like its people furthering a reason to grudge. (I'm reminded of this week's Raw Rant with Mr. Keith's "phantom knee injury" insult. Hi, welcome to 2003, where even almighty Bret Hart would most likely have gotten over this.)

And as for his religious stuff, its never bothered me. It shows up in his clothes but he doesn't preach it. Even if he is profitting, how is that hurting you or the business(For the record, I don't think he even NEEDS the profit)? It just seems like more grudging.





YO MAMA
Spaceman Spiff
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by darkmatcher
    People are still complaining about Wrestlemania? Come on now. Do you honestly think Jericho has been hurt by the job, because I don't see it. And why is Shawn the asshole for it, considering that he posseses no booking power whatsoever? The fact that his later returning job to Jericho isn't enough to suffice just makes me feel like its people furthering a reason to grudge.

HBK: "Y'know, Vince, I really don't need to beat Jericho at WM. Who knows how well my back will hold up. Why don't I go out, put up a great fight, but ultimately succumb to the younger guy. Both of us come out looking good, and Jericho gets the benefit of beating a legend."

And WM was the time to put over Jericho. The biggest PPV event of the year for the company vs. an ordinary Raw. The Raw win did nothing for him, while a WM win over a legend would have been huge (not that they have/had any plans for Jericho, any way).



j9479
Chorizo








Since: 29.1.03
From: the suburbs

Since last post: 2351 days
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.00
ya know who else does the "jebus love/pro wrestler" thing right? Aj Styles. I recall hearing once that he was a devout religious man, but in all the times i've seen a TNA show, or watched a tape featuring the man i've never seen him once mention, wear, signal, sign, or anything else that can be considered a direct reference to his religious beliefs.

and for HBK: i love to see the guy perform, even to this day, but after watching that DVD of his, you almost get a tear in the eye for the death of the old "arrogant little shit" character he once played. to see the "boyhood dream" Shawn vs Bret in the iron man match cuss out the camera man for getting in the way makes you remember that even though he was a problem case, he still was great.

And doesn't Shawn realize that if he went heel he would just be playing a character, and not be compromising his beliefs? or is he one of those "i've done bad in the past, so now i must flash the cross and let the gen pop know that i've changed for the better" guys doing the P.R. move?



mercer
Head cheese








Since: 17.11.03
From: Aransas Pass TX

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#26 Posted on
Saying this as a Christian, just because you don't mention Jesus on the shows (as you said about AJ) doesnt mean your not a Christian, he does a lot of shows with the Christian wrestling Fed. As for HBK, i think it was a little wierd to see him with the fish shirt, or with the HBK in the cross, but thats the merch that Vince puts out, not shawn. Besides, ive seen other stuff (Christian stuff) in the Jesus fish, and stuff written in crosses, so i don't think that there is anything wrong with it.



Later
God Bless
Mercer
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      Originally posted by darkmatcher
      People are still complaining about Wrestlemania? Come on now. Do you honestly think Jericho has been hurt by the job, because I don't see it. And why is Shawn the asshole for it, considering that he posseses no booking power whatsoever? The fact that his later returning job to Jericho isn't enough to suffice just makes me feel like its people furthering a reason to grudge.

    HBK: "Y'know, Vince, I really don't need to beat Jericho at WM. Who knows how well my back will hold up. Why don't I go out, put up a great fight, but ultimately succumb to the younger guy. Both of us come out looking good, and Jericho gets the benefit of beating a legend."


Vince: "Jericho's nowhere near your level. You're SHAWN MICHEALS! I made you into the biggest thing in this industry, and now we're at the greatest PPV of all time! And you expect me to allow a guy from Dubba See Dubba to go over? How would that make me look? Did you ever think of that? Besides, with Triple H beating Booker T tonight, there's no way we're not giving the fans what they want by having you go over Jericho. Now I don't want to hear another word about it."

edit: Besides, don't you think Shawn Michaels knows better than anyone not to try to change Vince's mind when it comes to booking major PPV matches?


Tribal Prophet

(edited by Tribal Prophet on 18.11.03 1702)


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j9479
Chorizo








Since: 29.1.03
From: the suburbs

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.00
i completely agree w/ mercer....... what i was trying to say was that i look at AJ as a true Christian, and this is coming from somebody who is raised catholic, but has serious qualms w/ organized religion; AJ does christianity right, because he is secure enough in his beliefs not to constantly advertise his beliefs; he apparently works for a christian fed, and this is the first time i have heard of this.

now, i would suspect that the reason why i've not heard of this is because AJ is simply supporting a cause he believes in, and not saying "look at me, i'm extremely religious"

now Shawn on the other hand comes off like a guy who has turned to religion because he has had a shady past. now, if looking to god has turned Shawn's life in a more positive way then i am happy for him, but his advertising (and others who have been in this situation, i.e. any athlete who has faced serious trouble and gotten out of it) seems to look like a p.r. makeover; "hey, you once knew me as a bad element, but i've healed myself and found god..... and now that i have found god, i'm more likable"

the point is this: if you have found religion, i mean truthfully have been saved, then you should be content enough with your new state of enlightenment not to have to tell everyone that you are now "on the straight and narrow" and that is why i like AJ; he is a religious guy, but he seems secure enough in that he supports his cause, but doesn;t feel the need to call everyone's attention to the fact that he is doing so. and that my friend, is a true christian.



madiq
Boerewors








Since: 27.7.03
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.36
OR...

Shawn Michaels has lived a bad life, and been a horrible role model, even when he was in that "Icon" stage where millions looked up to him. He has faced adversity, and ultimately triumphed over it due to his faith.

In fact, it goes deeper even than that. Where many Christians and non-Christians find tension is that Christians believe that "good ole JC" is the man who makes all things possible, and as such, every good thing a Christian does is a living testament to His power.

So when Shawn comes back from his "career ending" injury, he doesn't give himself the credit; he says to himself, "I could only have done this because of the Man Upstairs, and for that, I am grateful." Therefore, using the bit of creative control that he has, Shawn Michaels the MAN attempts to rehabilitate Shawn Michaels the CHARACTER. Because if Steve Austin can return from injury because of his desire to "raise Hell," Shawn can come back and feel blessed and eager to be an example for the other Christians out there who like/follow wrestling.

Shawn is also soft and cuddly because he says that he came back for his kids, and that he wanted them to see their dad perform at the highest level. Often guys are more conscious of their role model status when they know their kids are watching.

And as for AJ Styles, here's another perspective: AJ knows that giving his character the accoutrements of Christianity restricts his character, as many fans would feel a dissonance if a Christian character began a heel turn. Further, playing a deeply religious heel might, in his mind, cheapen his religion. Remember, as a guy in the early part of his career, AJ doesn't have a clearly defined character; he is building for us the way we want him to be seen in the wrestling industry. A young guy like AJ shouldn't want to be pigeon-holed as "that Christian guy." Guys like HBK (and Sting) have their characters already; fans already know what they're about, they have DEPTH. So these established guys, especially at the end of their careers, can afford to be creatively hamstrung, because most want to go out as faces, cheered and loved on their way out anyway.

One would think that with the rash of wrestler deaths, a phenomenon many attribute to the hard-partying lifestyle of pro wrestlers, we would be happy that Shawn was able to avoid the pitfalls of a wrestler desparately trying to keep his edge, using any and all means (even dangerous ones) to do so. That he has found solace and strength in a higher power is simultaneously privately laudable and publicly refreshing. Maybe wrestlers are a half-crazy lot, and the business pushes people down self-destructive paths, and rather than preach, Shawn would merely like people to know that he gives us performances like this past Sunday because of God, not some pill or injection. And if a budding wrestler, or someone on the roster, struggling with his own demons can take something positive from that, that's a good thing.

** I really don't know what a "Jesus fish" is, so I'm sure that there are millions of people in TV Land not getting the religion that is being "shoved down our throats."
Simba
Frankfurter








Since: 7.8.02
From: Boston, MA

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.20
If wearing a cross or a fish t-shirt helps him give performances like last Sunday, then I'll happily take "Born-Again Shawn".



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CANADIAN BULLDOG
Andouille








Since: 5.3.03
From: TORONTO

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37
    Originally posted by j9479
    now, if looking to god has turned Shawn's life in a more positive way then i am happy for him, but his advertising (and others who have been in this situation, i.e. any athlete who has faced serious trouble and gotten out of it) seems to look like a p.r. makeover; "hey, you once knew me as a bad element, but i've healed myself and found god..... and now that i have found god, i'm more likable"


I don't know if you could say Shawn Michaels was facing `serious trouble' per se. He retired after a successful career, probably made decent money doing it, and settled down with a family, all BEFORE finding religion.

Unless you're just saying that many athletes do that to get out of trouble, jail, etc. In which case I apologize for taking it out of context.

I am not a religious man, and I'm not even Christian... but I just don't see why what Shawn wears on his T-Shirt is bothering so many people.

He's found religion, and from all accounts is happier and easier to work with in the business. He can still put on performances (such as Survivor Series) that 90 % of the roster could only dream of pulling off. And at the same time, he doesn't seem to be pressuring anyone to make him the big star of the show the way otHHHers do.

I just don't see the problem...



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Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.96
    Originally posted by CANADIAN BULLDOG


    I am not a religious man, and I'm not even Christian... but I just don't see why what Shawn wears on his T-Shirt is bothering so many people.


It doesn't bother me a bit either.

If you don't like how he "pushes" his religion on his shirt, and whatever other merchandise he puts out........then don't buy it.



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JoshMann
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Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.24
    Originally posted by CANADIAN BULLDOG
    I just don't see the problem...


The problem is the smarks are more or less predisposed to think of Michaels according to what they read between 1995-1998 inclusive.

So then he leaves and comes back 4 years after several aborted retries and says that he's found Jesus. Which to me is fine...the Jesus Fish on a T-shirt isn't nearly as questionable as, say, wrestlers being put on crucifixes or crucifix-like symbols. But I think there's too many people who are just predisposed to not take Shawn seriously because they remember the supposed OLD Shawn Michaels. And as a result, for whatever Shawn's good intentions are, he's a victim of his own prior behavior.

Personally, I just think people have the capacity to change. So not knowing anything other than what's in the sheets, which I take with a grain of salt, I'm apt to give him the benefit of the doubt.

(edited by Blanket Jackson on 20.11.03 1318)
GoldbergWannabe49
Weisswurst








Since: 8.10.03
From: Kennebunk, Maine

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#34 Posted on
I gotta give HBK credit for his comeback, only because i know what its like to try to make a comeback. I play football, and I was the starting Middle linebacker for Varsity after the 2nd week when the started broke his neck. That season I miss the school record for sacks by two and broke the tackle record. In summer training that next year I blew out my knee and needed surgery. I came back my junior year and could hardly play. The rust took a long time to wear off, and it was frusturating. So i have to give him credit for his comeback, but as far as his finding god, i could care less. If he uses that as motivation thats cool. Everyones gotta get their adrenaline up= one way or the other



49- Out to prove to those in doubt...
j9479
Chorizo








Since: 29.1.03
From: the suburbs

Since last post: 2351 days
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.00
i was just referring to athletes doing that via jail, etc.... so no apologies needed to canadian bulldog.

now shawn never was in that kind of situation, but for me, my opinion and take only, from what i heard he was a sort of asshole when he was big back in the day, and he did have some problems with pills..... now for him to find god and have that help him through his personal problems is fine with me..... i just tend to hate it when people, any people push the jesus thing..... i mean, good for Shawn that he defeated his "demons" but he really doesn't need to push his beliefs when he is in reality playing a character on TV..... does this mean now that Shawn will never turn heel because he's told the fans his story? fact is, is that Shawn Michaels/Hickenbottom (sp?) the man can lead his life in the way he wants to... but "Shawn Michaels" the wrestler is a character... and a character needs to be versitle enough to play dual roles.... and if Shawn is going to be this active, then at one point a heel turn will have to be done to refresh the character.

and as for sting..... i will submit that if an extremely casual fan, i.e. not the guy who reads the websites saw sting on TNA, and his last memory of Sting was in WCW, he would never know that Sting found god.... because the man does not show any signs that a casual viewer would pick up on.



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I know you're just joking... But DAMN, that gave me a chill anyway. The stuff of night terrors, that is!
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