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24.10.14 0428
The W - Pro Wrestling - Shane Helms: Matt Hardy Protegé
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Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 14 days
#1 Posted on
Helms flips on Jericho's Twitter after Jericho congratulates HBK on getting into the HOF.

The comparison to Flair is particularly great. Because Flair's never been unprofessional and/or treated coworkers poorly.
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Kevintripod
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Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

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#2 Posted on
>“If u got something to say, say it public. Enough ass-kissing. He wasn’t the greatest when he was cussing u out in catering.”<



I would love to hear the story behind that.







"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 14 days
#3 Posted on
Helms claims Shawn and Jericho had a big, expletive-strewn blow-up in catering once. This apparently means that Jericho secretly hates Shawn and all their excellent work together over the past seven years was a total sham.

I mean, they probably did have an argument like Helms says. They probably also made peace when Helms wasn't there munching on a burger and rubbernecking.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.92
Shawn deserves to be in the hall of fame, no question. He has had the best second career of any wrestler alive after his injury. I would argue his second half was better then his first, but the IC Ladder match, RR wins and Iron Man match skew it towards the first half. Even if he never came back, he would still get in.

Having said that, I am curious about if Helms is right with getting someone else over in his career. I would have to say the Cliq plus Shelton even though Shelton's push seem to die as soon as Shawn hit him with the Superkick. Maybe Orton perhaps Benoit. I don't know if that is the right number for a career that long or not. Then looking at who he got over, I am not sure if that was a good thing.
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 14 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
He put Austin over pretty strong. HHH wouldn't have been anywhere near where he was in '98 had he not become Shawn's running buddy. He put over Scott Hall. He's put over Kennedy, Jeff Hardy, Jericho, Cena, Batista and Orton as clean as a whistle in the past few years.
dwaters
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Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 20 hours
#6 Posted on
Now Shawn can rightfully take his place among legends like Pete Rose and Koko B. Ware.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.92
I would argue Austin was already over thanks to Bret and the Austin 3:16 speech. Jericho was over when he faced him at WM19 and it was more of a dream match even though the wrong person went over. Orton, I can see. HHH did a lot for Batista and Orton as well. Jeff Hardy? Kennedy? I don't think so. Cena, maybe even though they did have that ugly exchange at the end of their Mania match. I think we have to differentiate what getting someone over is. I view it as getting someone who is not on the same stature as you a chance to shine and become a star after the match or promo or being in the same faction. I think Shawn has done that more for his friends then random guy in the locker room. Then again, this is selfish business. I do think Shawn has put over the right amount of people then he has buried people even if some of those people don't deserve it.

(edited by lotjx on 13.1.11 0812)
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 14 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
What a weird definition. About the only guy to have done that at all in the past ten-fifteen years is Mick Foley.

Shawn laid down for both Jeff and Kennedy, clean. It's not his fault they didn't become megastars. As a matter of fact, in both of those cases, it's mostly their own fault.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 6 hours
#9 Posted on
I wonder if Helms is mad about being cut right after he got that huge tattoo on his back (c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com).



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 19 hours
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.92
Jeff was a star before he faced Shawn and to be honest, I don't remember Shawn feuding with Jeff. I think I remember him wrestling Anderson, but Anderson's career was full of false starts that I guess even if Shawn put him over it won't have mattered. Rock did with Brock, Hurricane and almost everyone he faced. Rock got La Resistance's dog over, he could get anyone over. I don't think we see it anymore due to the fact there is a limited amount of guys who can pull it off.
PaulKTF
Summer sausage








Since: 26.5.06

Since last post: 1180 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
This is probably just sour-grapes from a never-was more than anything else.
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 2 days
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#12 Posted on
    Originally posted by PaulKTF
    This is probably just sour-grapes from a never-was more than anything else.


Oh please. Obviously it is sour grapes but saying Helms is a never-was is stretching it. Helms was a good wrestler, won 8 titles, was in the Big 2 for 11 years and was one of the top merchandise sellers as the Hurricane. Just because he's not The Rock or Stone Cold doesn't make him a never-was.



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THAT IS AWESOME!
PaulKTF
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Since: 26.5.06

Since last post: 1180 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by Quezzy
      Originally posted by PaulKTF
      This is probably just sour-grapes from a never-was more than anything else.


    Oh please. Obviously it is sour grapes but saying Helms is a never-was is stretching it. Helms was a good wrestler, won 8 titles, was in the Big 2 for 11 years and was one of the top merchandise sellers as the Hurricane. Just because he's not The Rock or Stone Cold doesn't make him a never-was.


He got over for a short period of time with a cartoony gimmick (and then was stuck with that gimmick long after people stopped caring), but other than that he languished in the mid-to-lower card.

I thought he was a decent wrestler but awful on the mic and the Hurricane gimmick wasn't doing him any favors after the initial buzz.

Remember when The Rock tried to get him over? That didn't work so well, did it? And it wasn't because The Rock wasn't trying his best.

He made for a much better face than heel; I'll give him that. I thought the 3-Count thing was pretty funny but again; it's one of those silly gimmicks that can't really go anywhere or progress any meaningful angles.

If he was so great; he'd still be employed by the WWE, right? Or was he released for a wellness policy violation?
graves9
Landjager








Since: 19.2.10
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 28 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#14 Posted on
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    What a weird definition. About the only guy to have done that at all in the past ten-fifteen years is Mick Foley.

    Shawn laid down for both Jeff and Kennedy, clean. It's not his fault they didn't become megastars. As a matter of fact, in both of those cases, it's mostly their own fault.
Jeff was a mega star, he really was the second biggest star in his last few years in the WWE.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.92
    Originally posted by PaulKTF
      Originally posted by Quezzy
        Originally posted by PaulKTF
        This is probably just sour-grapes from a never-was more than anything else.


      Oh please. Obviously it is sour grapes but saying Helms is a never-was is stretching it. Helms was a good wrestler, won 8 titles, was in the Big 2 for 11 years and was one of the top merchandise sellers as the Hurricane. Just because he's not The Rock or Stone Cold doesn't make him a never-was.


    He got over for a short period of time with a cartoony gimmick (and then was stuck with that gimmick long after people stopped caring), but other than that he languished in the mid-to-lower card.

    I thought he was a decent wrestler but awful on the mic and the Hurricane gimmick wasn't doing him any favors after the initial buzz.

    Remember when The Rock tried to get him over? That didn't work so well, did it? And it wasn't because The Rock wasn't trying his best.

    He made for a much better face than heel; I'll give him that. I thought the 3-Count thing was pretty funny but again; it's one of those silly gimmicks that can't really go anywhere or progress any meaningful angles.

    If he was so great; he'd still be employed by the WWE, right? Or was he released for a wellness policy violation?



He was released due to taking the fall for Matt Hardy. WWE embarrassed him on ECW and then fired him, so its not like WWE is a class group. Rock got Hurricane over and then the night after Mania, HHH squashed him thus ending any hopes for anything bigger. He was over as Hurricane and Shane Helmes, news reporter. He was a major part of ECW near the end. He was in out of WWE with shoulder injuries. He was one of the few guys who got over during Invasion which in my mind was designed to bury anything to do with ECW and WCW once and for all. He had good to great matches when he wasn't squashed for the next failure big guy Vince brought in.

Granted, the guy was always known as a shit starter backstage. So, I am sure he was on thin ice as is with WWE at times. There also a lot of great wrestlers not working in the WWE right now, Rock, Kurt, Anderson, AJ, Joe, MCMG, Beer Money and so on. WWE is the big league, but its not the be all end all of wrestling. Shane is a good wrestler, he just needs to calm the fuck down when it comes to talking shit.
dwaters
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Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 20 hours
#16 Posted on
I constantly hear about "backstage" and "in the locker room" but how much time do they really spend around each other?
It's probably longer for TV events, but from what I've seen, the guys show up an hour or ninety minutes before the show and leave pretty much after their match. They all take rental cars and travel with their buddies, so it's not like they're stuck on a bus together. It's not like an office job where they are in the same building for eight hours at a time. They are in charge of finding their own hotels.

This is so different than any other traveling group like a sports team or rock band. Does the drummer for Nickelback have to call and see if there are any rooms at the Red Roof Inn and find directions to the arena?

(edited by dwaters on 13.1.11 1004)
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by PaulTKF
    He got over for a short period of time with a cartoony gimmick (and then was stuck with that gimmick long after people stopped caring), but other than that he languished in the mid-to-lower card.

    If he was so great; he'd still be employed by the WWE, right?


It's hard to be more successful as a small undercard guy than Hurricane was, I mean he had an eight-year run. At his size it's not like he was ever going to be more than a role player so the best you can do is be a good one with longevity.

He's not coping too well with hitting his mid-30s and not being on TV anymore though. He must've really been traumatized by that argument in catering.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    I view it as getting someone who is not on the same stature as you a chance to shine and become a star after the match or promo


I don't think there's a better example of this than what he did with Jericho in 2008. For all his success and versatility, Jericho was never entrenched as an undisputed top man until Michaels let him into the club by doing promos where he said he was on his level and treated him as an equal in their program.

Shawn losing to Jeff Hardy was big because he was one of the first top guys to lay down for him and he did it clean to the Swanton. That's a pretty significant benchmark, and being just before Wrestlemania, it put Jeff on the cusp of winning MITB and the WWE title that summer before his suspension set him back a few months and CM Punk got his spot.

Shawn even lost clean to Rhodes and DiBiase, for all the good it ended up doing them.

If the only job that counts as the starmaking one is the first one then Rock didn't make Lesnar and neither did Hogan -- Flair did. But it doesn't work that way; every bit helps. Like you said, being a great pro wrestler doesn't mean being the main eventer who lost the most -- that's become this misguided mindset on the internet distorted out of debates about people who really did undercut the value of their peers/rivals like Hogan in WCW and Triple H at various times which leads to this false equivalence of like "yeah but Steve Austin refused to let Mr. Ass become a rightful main eventer" which turns into let's count the jobs. Michaels 2.0 was pretty darn accommodating by the standards of main event wrestlers.

Helms is talking out his ass but he's just doing it to get attention and in Internet 2011, it's too easy. He's doing his floating head "I'm just sayin'" gimmick but on Twitter.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 13.1.11 1340)
wannaberockstar
Morcilla








Since: 7.3.02
From: MA

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#18 Posted on
Helms clearly played the Hitler card too soon.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 6 hours
#19 Posted on
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Shawn losing to Jeff Hardy was big because he was one of the first top guys to lay down for him and he did it clean to the Swanton. That's a pretty significant benchmark, and being just before Wrestlemania, it put Jeff on the cusp of winning MITB and the WWE title that summer before his suspension set him back a few months and CM Punk got his spot.


I'm still a bit shocked at how Hardy ultimately went over Umaga in their feud, and then CM Punk beat Umaga (who talked!) as he was walking out the door.

Umaga may have given the two that last jolt of credibility that allowed them to dominate SD for months at a time.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 12 hours
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Since practically every otherwise inexplicable segment and angle in televised wrestling is based on somebody making fun of one of the boys for some weird backstage incident, I'm going to go ahead and assume that the episode where Michaels retired and became a spineless chef who was tormented by that little girl was directly a riff on this mysterious catering incident between HBK and YSJ that Helms witnessed.

It's just a question of whether Michaels was playing Michaels and the kid was playing Jericho or Michaels was playing Jericho, the manager was playing HHH and the kid was playing Michaels.
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