Oooh, boy. I never thought RTD would raise the stakes of the last series finale, but he did. I'm slightly disappointed that Sci-Fi let out some spoilers in it promos for this Friday's episodes. New Who is great in transforming Rose's journey into an arc,
Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
but alas, we're at the end of it.
Oh, check out the Ninth Doctor's "cameo." No, really, check it out. The Torchwood you'll witness in the finale is quite different than Captain Jack's Torchwood. Speaking of Torchwood, I'm no fan the series Torchwood. I know it's popular enough to earn a second series, but the characterizations are terrible and the narrative of Captain Jack being stuck in a Dr. Who-inspired X-Files/Angel grim-and-gritty world isn't working for me. I'm haunted by the words of Boston Idol; RTD and the crew are really stretching the definition of mortality in several episodes.
Also, after the series two finale, check out the official BBC website for their Doctor Who Advent calendar.
I'm very excited about the season finale! And I really do like the fact that Sci-Fi is airing both parts in one go. And although there is some spoilage in the promo, I think it's pretty cool that the promo discusses the fact that it's Cybermen and Daleks squaring off. As a WHO fan, I simply can't wait. And dig that Supreme Dalek!!! Sweet!
(Of course, I'll probably have one of my long-winded rants after the broadcast this Friday at some point, but I'm sure both 'Army of Ghosts' and 'Doomsday will give us WHO fans a whole lot to discuss.)
And JALman, could you perhaps elaborate on what makes Torchwood not qite work as a series in your opinion? And for that matter, do you think this 'WHO' spin-off came too soon? I won't lie-- while I can understand why the Beeb would want to strike while the iron's hot and satiate the fans' demand for more things WHO, I'm just a bit concerned that maybe they're putting out too much too soon (there's also the Sarah Jane Smith spin-off coming along). If the quality is there, then bravo! If not, hmmm...
Originally posted by RKMtwinAnd JALman, could you perhaps elaborate on what makes Torchwood not qite work as a series in your opinion?
I'll give it a shot without going deep into spoilerville:
Characterizations -- IMO, they're crappy. One member of Torchwood Cardiff is practically invisible. No, not invisibility invisible, but poorly-written invisible. Another member is promiscuous, but I'm supposed to sympathize with him when during his and Torchwood's ordeals. Unfortunately, he neither looks nor acts worthy of sympathy. By the way, that latter character is NOT Jack, who is often being little more than the bossy boss. I'm also disappointed in Gwen Cooper as she isn't much of an anchor for the viewers and she appears to be, for lack of better word, loose. I'm not sure whether it's the effect of Torchwood "liberating" her or a way that RTD can justify the show being "sexy."
The show presents itself as adult and has good production values, but the show blends gritty crime drama with childish fantasy with poor results. Only one member suffers a disastrous consequence, but the rest of the gang are almost static. Since they're sharing the burden of interacting with alien life and they're a ragtag bunch, I'd prefer Torchwood Cardiff to be more stressed out than they already are as they are.
Still I'm going to continue the masochistic activity of watching the whole series and seeing how it matches with New Who.
And for that matter, do you think this 'WHO' spin-off came too soon? I won't lie-- while I can understand why the Beeb would want to strike while the iron's hot and satiate the fans' demand for more things WHO, I'm just a bit concerned that maybe they're putting out too much too soon (there's also the Sarah Jane Smith spin-off coming along). If the quality is there, then bravo! If not, hmmm...
My issue isn't the timing, it's how RTD is creating an adult drama that isn't very adult. Have you also read about the Rose Tyler spinoff being scrapped? The Beeb is centering spin-offs around "hot" characters; all I want is to see an episode of Who where we get to know Susan Foreman's whereabouts.
Also, the official BBC website [bbc.co.uk, Flash content] is having a blowout of Who tidbits. If you're curious about Ms. Smith, check out hexagon #9. Unfortunately, that may be the only peek of the SJS spinoff us non-Brits will see in a while as the Beeb is barring access to the show's website. Also, on hexagons #6 and #18 you get to view some episode commentaries; I didn't RTD was that tall.
BBC busting out as many Who spin offs is a good thing IMO. Who is hot right now. And let's face it, the program has produced a lot of great characters and concepts. If for nothing else- the spin off series' can make for good TV.
As far as Torchwood goes, I've only seen bits and pieces. It seems pretty decent. We have to remind ourselves however, it is NOT Doctor Who. And Torchwood deserves a chance to stand on its own merit. I think your observations are definitly fair JAL. I hoped Torchwood would've been more like the stuff we saw in The Christmas Invasion and Doomsday. But that's probably because what I really want to see is a UNIT series.
One last thing- on Outpost Gallifrey, there were rumors going around about Tennant leaving the series. This one may have merit, even though it was refuted by BBC-- This is the same pattern we saw when Billie Piper was rumored to leave after season two. I really hope this is not the case.
A hole in the story the rumor has is: Tennant leaves in the middle of season 4. BBC says a fourth series hasn't been commisioned yet. But David Tennant did an interview on a morning show and the host asked him if he was leaving after series four. Tennant simply replies that he'll stay as long as he can. So where's the truth at? Just some food for thought. Thanks!
I just don't know what to think about the speculation on David Tennant possibly leaving the series. If it is true, it would be shocking. In my opinion, Cfristopher Eccleston left the role too soon, and Tennant would be leaving the role too soon as well, if what's been reported is true. They are/were both so tremendous as the Doctor! I think it's too premature at this point for us to discuss who might be the next Doctor, but needless to say, I'm sure that this rumor will be in the backs of the minds of all 'WHO' fans.
That said, it's also going to take some getting used to Billie Piper no longer being on the show. Besides Sarah Jane Smith, Rose Tyler is, in my opinion, the best companion 'Doctor WHO' has ever had.
Also, the season finale of season two was AWESOME. It's taken a week for me to digest it all! I know there are probably some out there who may have bemoaned the Daleks versus the Cybermen, because supposedly, it was just a fanboy thing come true. Well, all I can say, in response to that is-- HOW LONG SHOULD WE HAVE WAITED? I mean, gee! 'Doomsday' was the first time in the history of WHO mythos that the two forces faced off against one another! And in a universe that has had intergalactic wars, a time war, and Earth being removed millions of light years away from its orbit around the sun, you would figure it was only a matter of time!
And hey, I dig the Cybermen too, but the fact that they got their collective silver asses handed to them by the Daleks only makes sense. The Daleks have conquered galaxies, and are the only beings bad enough to go heads up against the Time Lords themselves. And to boot, who's to say that THIS universe's Cybermen are not in fact, more powerful than the alternate universe's Cybermen? So there may be hope indeed that maybe the Daleks will get the crap kicked out of THEM by the Cybermen in the future!
Okay, enough fanboy talk from me. At any rate, 'Army of Ghosts'/'Doomsday' was a season finale unlike any other previous season's denouement. Not only did we get action on the level of 'Battlestar Galactica' and 'Star Trek Deep Space Nine,' we got an emotionally charged farewell of a companion and heart-stopping moments throughout both episodes! RTD 'WHO' demonstrates that the new series can either match and/or go above and beyond anything the original series offered-- not as a way to try to outstage the original, but to pay homage to the original and take the vision of Doctor WHO farther than it has ever gone. Need I say it once more that Russel T. and company did it again? The new WHO does it again and again and again.
[fanboy]And who's to say (no pun intended) what lies in the Doctor's future? A rematch against the Master? We KNOW the Doctor will face the Daleks once again. What about Davros? The Black Guardian, even? If you think about it, over the course of his last three regenerations, the Doctor's faced situations more severe than any he's faced previously. For all we know, his entire race was annihilated. Two of amongst his most bitter foes have now gone to battle right before his very eyes. I just have this feeling that with all that's out there in the universe, the Doctor's future may be a very, very bleak one...[/fanboy]
Series two did end with a (figurative) bang, didn't it? Don't worry, the Bride will keep good company.
Sarah Jane's first solo effort since K9 & Company wasn't bad. The show is structured that she is playing (sexy?) Doctor living in an odd homebase and the kids are the Companions fighting alien threats. It's probably too similar to Doctor Who for me to get into though. I hope that wasn't the last we'll see of the old K9; indeed it was the parting of the ways.
Did you know that Sci-Fi is bringing series three (and a new companion) this summer, too? Nice to know Sci-Fi is committed. I don't think series three will be Tennant's last unless there are some major movie roles get in the way.
Originally posted by RKMtwin And who's to say (no pun intended) what lies in the Doctor's future? A rematch against the Master? We KNOW the Doctor will face the Daleks once again. What about Davros? The Black Guardian, even? If you think about it, over the course of his last three regenerations, the Doctor's faced situations more severe than any he's faced previously. For all we know, his entire race was annihilated. Two of amongst his most bitter foes have now gone to battle right before his very eyes. I just have this feeling that with all that's out there in the universe, the Doctor's future may be a very, very bleak one...
Who knows? Based on seeing the series three preview,
Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
the Supreme Dalek
may be the harbinger of the Doctor's next big threat.