The W
Views: 99863458
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
20.10.14 1936
The W - Pro Wrestling - Serena Released?! (Page 2)
This thread has 19 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Thread rated: 5.53
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 Next
(2162 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (51 total)
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.69
They taped Smackdown last week while she is with the company. I am sure once they write her off next week that she will be removed. Well, Mickie was with the company for awhile at least by today's standards. Vince just loves the twigs with big bras minus Layla whose best assets is well her ass.
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 1 day
ICQ:  
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.86
A few people here seem to think she was let go due to a bias about skinny women. But even a small look online seem to indicate that this could have been avoided; she was told to do less partying or at least tone down some of her road activities. She didn't, which is why she was let go. I won't go so far as to say kayfabe is making a huge comeback, but there is some evidence that you still need to hold it in some regard (see also; Undertaker's wedding). So in this case I don't think body type had to do with the release.

lotjx, are there no "twigs" in TNA (or are they in the minority?). With a woman running things I would expect them to have a highly diversified women's division and have them and their title be treated with the utmost respect. Nothing like having the title change hands via opening boxes or anything like that.


I’ll go a step further; I wouldn’t blame Vince for stocking up on thin, large breasted women. Men are visually oriented, which means we are stimulated through the eyes. And we’ve been conditioned the last several years (decades even) that skinny, large breasted women are desirable and attractive. Take a look at magazines, newspapers, ads on the Internet. Take a look at television shows and movies. You wonder why young women these days are so self-conscious about their body image, and why depression is arguably the greatest medical epidemic in North America today. It’s because young women are being told covertly and overtly by all forms of entertainment that “thin is in”, and of course men like big boobs! And pron certainly doesn’t help things, as that makes things even more unrealisitic and unobtainable for today’s women to compete with.

Women are, quite frankly, competing against figments of society’s imagination, which were created by society itself. Factoring in this, even if it is Vince’s personal opinion, he’s also looking at what sells; and that’s what sells even in a PG product. It's been this way for some time, especially after the "sexual revolution" (which IMHO has done more harm than good).

And lets be clear; PG is not what it used to be. Profanity, scantily clad women, and excessive violence are all considered “PG-13” nowadays, but they were not “back in the day”. The WWE is no different than any other form of entertainment in that the envelope is being pushed.

So really, you can’t blame Vince for the type of women found in the WWE. You can blame society though, and in some cases people can blame themselves for feeding it.



(edited by El Nastio on 25.8.10 0945)

After a (very) long hiatus, I have begun to write again. And this time, I'm not alone!

Click Here (basisgames.blogspot.com) to check out Basis Games - Video Game/Console Reviews, Commentaries, and Analysis. Check it out!
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 63 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
    Originally posted by El Nastio

    I’ll go a step further; I wouldn’t blame Vince for stocking up on thin, large breasted women. Men are visually oriented, which means we are stimulated through the eyes. And we’ve been conditioned the last several years (decades even) that skinny, large breasted women are desirable and attractive. Take a look at magazines, newspapers, ads on the Internet. Take a look at television shows and movies.




    You wonder why young women these days are so self-conscious about their body image, and why depression is arguably the greatest medical epidemic in North America today. It’s because young women are being told covertly and overtly by all forms of entertainment that “thin is in”, and of course men like big boobs! And pron certainly doesn’t help things, as that makes things even more unrealisitic and unobtainable for today’s women to compete with.

    Factoring in this, even if it is Vince’s personal opinion, he’s also looking at what sells; and that’s what sells even in a PG product. It's been this way for some time, especially after the "sexual revolution" (which IMHO has done more harm than good).

    So really, you can’t blame Vince for the type of women found in the WWE. You can blame society though, and in some cases people can blame themselves for feeding it.

    (edited by El Nastio on 25.8.10 0945)


The problem is that Vince basically holds a monopoly over professional wrestling in the US. He is not in a position to be saying "oh no, I have to follow what everyone else expects". Instead, he is actually in the position to change those views society has been trained to think of as popular.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.98
I can blame Vince for valuing modeling skills over wrestling skills. I don't watch the WWE for cheesecake, and the WWE does no one any favors by allowing under-prepared models stumble through a match on camera.

If Serena was fired for backstage behavior when we've heard Orton, for instance, do far worse, that sounds like a double standard. Orton has more value, one can argue. Serena is disposable even if she's the rare non-Diva female onscreen performer (Vickie got a WM spot, and that frogsplash was horrible).

It was really that important for her to maintain a persona when she's off the clock? RVD lost his belts when he got arrested, but he still had a job.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.69
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
      Originally posted by El Nastio

      I’ll go a step further; I wouldn’t blame Vince for stocking up on thin, large breasted women. Men are visually oriented, which means we are stimulated through the eyes. And we’ve been conditioned the last several years (decades even) that skinny, large breasted women are desirable and attractive. Take a look at magazines, newspapers, ads on the Internet. Take a look at television shows and movies.




      You wonder why young women these days are so self-conscious about their body image, and why depression is arguably the greatest medical epidemic in North America today. It’s because young women are being told covertly and overtly by all forms of entertainment that “thin is in”, and of course men like big boobs! And pron certainly doesn’t help things, as that makes things even more unrealisitic and unobtainable for today’s women to compete with.

      Factoring in this, even if it is Vince’s personal opinion, he’s also looking at what sells; and that’s what sells even in a PG product. It's been this way for some time, especially after the "sexual revolution" (which IMHO has done more harm than good).

      So really, you can’t blame Vince for the type of women found in the WWE. You can blame society though, and in some cases people can blame themselves for feeding it.

      (edited by El Nastio on 25.8.10 0945)


    The problem is that Vince basically holds a monopoly over professional wrestling in the US. He is not in a position to be saying "oh no, I have to follow what everyone else expects". Instead, he is actually in the position to change those views society has been trained to think of as popular.


Thank you. I would also add that Vince's uncoformity of Attitude Era made him the billionaire today. Part of that success were women like Chyna who made DX more interesting sorta like Serena does for SES as well as Sable who was not all skin and bones either. TNA currently has a twig roster, I am not going to defend that. I will defend their past use of Kong, ODB and other non-twigs as recently as this year. I do think you need some variety in any division instead of being pigeon hold as one type. This is why I am ok with Rey getting titles, why should it be the biggest guy to be champion.
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 11 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.86
The arguments about Divas are always weird, as the usual refrain when it comes to Vince is that he should listen to what the fans want. Well, the vast majority of WWE fans don't give a crap about well-rounded women's wrestling - the T&A slant works out just fine. Why, in this one instance, is WWE expected to tell the fans what they should want? And why is Vince being judged as one of the guys who is in poll position to change attitudes about the female form? He doesn't run a fashion magazine. Like El nastio said, WWE's aversion to any women deviating from the sstandard model is a symptom of a larger societal issue, not a Vince-created evil.
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 1 day
ICQ:  
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.86
You could say that Vince is in a position to affect change with his monopoly. On the flip side there is money to be made with the status quo, and to upend the status quo could result in a loss of revenue. The "non-conformity" of the Attitude Era was brought about because they were in second place so they needed to upset the apple cart in order to make a push and remain viable. Like several corporations, if you're making money with the current model why change it? And if your clients expect and want something, why give them something else? There's no need to do that right now. If anything TNA or ROH are in a better position to affect change, as they are more desperate and should consider thinking outside the box (especially TNA).

Women need to be respected more, that much is obvious, but society simply refuses to let this happen. The casual acceptance (and outright promotion) of porn is an example of this. People often fail to see how demeaning and disrespectful it is towards women, and we see the ramifications of the objectification and desensitization on all fronts within entertainment.

Orton's backstage behavior being a douche doesn't break kayfabe; he was being a douche in the ring as well. Serena breaking kayfabe is a bit different because it goes against the nature of the character she is playing. If they're going to fire people for breaking kayfabe, at least they are consistent.

Oh, and great examples lotjx. You chose two people who are no longer with TNA. They sure treated Kong with respect!



After a (very) long hiatus, I have begun to write again. And this time, I'm not alone!

Click Here (basisgames.blogspot.com) to check out Basis Games - Video Game/Console Reviews, Commentaries, and Analysis. Check it out!
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.69

Vince's shows are part of society that is a basic fact.
I would love to see the merchandising units sold from the current women's division vs. the Attitude Era division. I put that is something Vince gives a crap and also a good indicator of what the WWE wants. I could be wrong, but I would say you would be surprised to see most people preferred those types of women to the current stock as of today. I don't know if Vince is evil for making money of these types of women, they get paid for what they do and they should know what they are getting into. I will say Vince throwing these women at their isn't the solution either.

I agree with Matt as well, they are just terrible wrestlers only three or four of them know how to wrestle and if they are so valued why are a majority of fans turning the channel or getting up while in attendance to get a beer or go the bathroom. Won't it be better move financially to go back to valets instead paying for now two rosters full of women or if you are going to have wrestlers give some variety instead of putting out a somewhat generic product.

As for Serena getting canned, again who knows the real reason if she partied too much and interfered with her job then she should be canned. If she partied too much without interfering her job and you already did a storyline saying it was a problem in SES, then I am not sure why this is a problem. As for Orton. It is a double standard, but its a double standard for everyone not just Serena because she is a woman. Orton apparently has matured through the years, but if Vince didn't see dollar signs in him, he would have been gone as soon as one of those incidents hit the web.

Like I said until recently and I did say I would love to have Kong back, but that has more to do with Bischoff and Hogan screwing up that division which I already made mention of.

(edited by lotjx on 25.8.10 1008)
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
As much as I loved Serena's work in the SES, for anyone complaining about how she is fired while Orton can do all sorts of stupid things the fact is Serena is utterly dispensable for WWE. If, as rumors hold, she was warned to stop partying and didn't, that's what is going to happen. And from the times I've been drinking with Serena, I know that lady can hold her own, and certainly has no qualms about going out and having fun. For whatever reason that sort of legitimate adult behavior seems to be a problem in WWE land, but then who knows what will make them angry if they decide to get a bug up their rear about something?

Now I'm just hoping that the no-compete clause can be made TNA-only as there is a SHIMMER taping coming up in less than 3 weeks. Would love to hear the Irene Cara music over the PA again.

(edited by spf on 25.8.10 1134)


2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.94
    Originally posted by El Nastio

    Women need to be respected more, that much is obvious, but society simply refuses to let this happen. The casual acceptance (and outright promotion) of porn is an example of this. People often fail to see how demeaning and disrespectful it is towards women, and we see the ramifications of the objectification and desensitization on all fronts within entertainment.


There is a lot of porn out there that is WAY more respectful of women than WWE programming is. (There's a lot of porn that isn't, of course, too.)
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 1 day
ICQ:  
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.67
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    There is a lot of porn out there that is WAY more respectful of women than WWE programming is. (There's a lot of porn that isn't, of course, too.)


A lot of social commentary in this wrasslin' thread. Perhaps at some point we should take it to the Politics board.

It's just my opinion, but there's no such thing as "respectful" porn. Porn is porn, and regardless of how you paint it or dress it up it still has the same effect on society.

Does the WWE objectify women? Yup. Do they do it worse than other companies? Sometimes. But the reality is they are doing it because it is what sells, and it is what society expects and wants after being conditioned.

This has gradually been happening for the last 40 years, people shouldn't be shocked.




(I now await my rating going down because I'm bashing teh pr0nz).

(edited by El Nastio on 25.8.10 1401)


After a (very) long hiatus, I have begun to write again. And this time, I'm not alone!

Click Here (basisgames.blogspot.com) to check out Basis Games - Video Game/Console Reviews, Commentaries, and Analysis. Check it out!
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.56
No disagreements about larger, longer-lasting societal and cultural standards and impositions. Still, who have the most successful female acts been in WWE over the last ten years?

Trish Stratus - blonde with big boobs. well. okay. but wasn't over at all until she won the audience over with hard work and learning how to be a really sympathetic seller. their most successful female act was, not coincidentally, also their most talented, well-rounded female performer.

Lita - implants but unique look, cool athletic highspots, and tomboy/female Hardy persona that all made her stand out.

Mickie James - implants but unique look, lots of personality. got a lot less skinny as she got older and drug testing came in but was always the most popular girl even when WWE would try to move her aside for someone like Ashley or Candice Michelle.

Chyna - completely changed her face and body through plastic surgery, yes. but as different as you can get from the prototype.

Maria - a model but no implants; got over because of her naif character.

Stacy Keibler - no implants, super-pretty, different physical assets, had the charisma to succeed on a national reality show and get minor acting jobs.

Victoria - brunette, muscles, brace, weirdo.

Throw in Maryse and LayCool, who were just random fit girls no one cared about until they developed their heel characters.

Granted, for the most part we're still talking about women who'd fall in the upper percentage of the most attractive people you'd see in the world, as opposed to WWE really getting behind someone like Awesome Kong (who was the biggest female ratings draw in the business in years and years, by and by). But WWE has extremely high and often misplaced cosmetic hiring standards when it comes to both men and women.

WWE may think the model type is the way to go, but all of the biggest successes they've employed have been the women who stick out from the rest of the pack of models because they, for one, were different and, for two, had charisma. And the audience will always respond to charisma before they respond to the best-looking girl, otherwise Kelly Kelly would be a Sable-level star.

In all three Diva Searches on TV, even in a competition almost exclusively made up of hired models from agencies, the fans always chose the different-looking girl (bubbly redhead, punk rawker, Moroccan w/ accent) with personality, or as much of one as you could convey in those segments, over the company favorite (the Playboy Playmate of the Year and a future Deal Or No Deal model in two of the cases).

The other important point is that WWE keeps two or three times as many women on their roster as they actually need. Partially because they think the more hot girls on TV, the better the ratings, despite no real evidence that backs that up. Partially because it's just more fun to have lots of hot girls around for company (add creepy quotation marks around company if you'd like). And partially because WWE's hiring strategy with the girls is very, very conscious in that they don't want singular breakout female stars because of the headaches they went through with Sable and Chyna's egos getting out of control, so they keep a cadre of girls so that none of them can ever get too big since they're just one of twenty who have the same six-woman tag each week.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 25.8.10 1537)
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.64
Serena has pretty huge boobs btw.
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.70
I figured the WWE kept more women on the roster these days to help support the web site with Diva of the moment bikini pics.

Kong in the WWE just wouldn't work in the WWE, especially with Lawler around and the way he destroyed Jazz for 'being ugly'.

The WWE could really tap into that different looking girl market. They don't want big girls, that's fine, but is there anyone out there that thinks a girl like Daffney wouldn't get over pretty big if she were brought in? There just seems to be a lot of money being left on the table.

Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.98
I'm still surprised they got rid of Ariel, Kevin Thorn's valet. I think they'd use a vampire gimmick now given True Blood and Twilight's popularity. Daffney could fit right into that. Then again, they already have Melina screaming like a $!@# banshee in her matches.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Madame Manga
Kolbasz








Since: 16.1.02
From: Silicon Valley

Since last post: 32 days
Last activity: 14 days
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    WWE's hiring strategy with the girls is very, very conscious in that they don't want singular breakout female stars because of the headaches they went through with Sable and Chyna's egos getting out of control



Yep. I'd say that Vince's personal bug with female stars goes back at least as far as what happened to Wendi Richter. It's endemic to the whole business, I think, even though women wrestlers were some of the biggest draws in the 1940s. Are they afraid of creating another Moolah?

I started watching WWE in the early 2000s, when their women's division included some serious wrestling action -- I remember Jacqueline, Jazz, Ivory and so on with considerable fondness. Those gals weren't all as huge as Chyna, but they looked and moved like they could HURT you in about a thousand different ways. I liked that.

T&A aside, what generally offends me as a wrestling fan about the current crop of interchangeable underweight 'divas' is that they mostly look like Cosmo-reading 'popular' girls I could have beaten up on the playground single-handed. I'm not impressed.

InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.82
I, for one, could care less what the divas look like, as long as they can wrestle. If the WWE wants eye candy, that's fine. But keep them out of the ring. But apparently even the ones who are capable of wrestling aren't allowed to do so. Lance Storm has repeatedly insisted that Jillian Hall is capable of putting on good matches when given the opportunity.

As for Serena, just to add to the random speculation, her last tweet says "You are the best fans in ANY universe" which seems to fit the mold of those cryptic messages that CRZ is so fond of when someone leaves a company/position. Her Twitter profile also still lists her as the WWE Anti-Diva but that doesn't necessarily mean anything since she tweets via BlackBerry and might not have access to profile updating.

And since the thread has already derailed, CM Punk is also on Twitter now, but according to Luke Gallows, Punk refuses to actually tweet until he has 1,000,000 followers.(Neither Punk nor Gallows is verified through Twitter but both are followed by the @WWE feed which keeps a running list of imposters, thus it's presumably the real Punk and Gallows.

(For those who aren't big on Twitter, there are less than 200 people who have managed to garner a million followers thus far, so it's unlikely that Punk will be doing so any time soon. (Chris Jericho and Matt Hardy combined have just shy of 275,000 followers.))
OndaGrande
Kolbasz








Since: 1.5.03
From: California, Home of THE LAKERS!

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.32

This news sucks completely. Serena was on her way to actually being used to her full abilities. But apart from the paycheck, it could be a blessing in disguise. She will probably make more $$$ on the indy scene for the exposure, she won't have to put up with the WWE's absolute misuse of the Divas, and wrestling wise can go back to having meaningful, good matches. Unfortunately while the firing may have been entirely disciplinary on paper, the fact remains it sends a message that wrestling talent is secondary to all the other "standards" WWE uses in regards to it's female talent. Also unfortunate that there are at least 40-60 workers out there I can think of that can outwrestle all but 3 of the WWE Divas. And many of them are actually as or more actractive than most of the current Divas.

On an aside, speaking of Melina; for those unfamiliar with women's wrestling outside of WWE/TNA, like most wrestlers today, her repretoire consists entirely of using gimmicks and moves from other wrestlers. The screaming is taken directly from Daffney and MsChif, most of her moveset she gets from MsChif and Daizee Haze, and the whole paparazzi magnet thing comes from Amber O'Neal and Krissy Vaine just amplified. But it is for this very reason I give her grudging respect for being a fan of those other workers and paying attention to what goes on in indy wrestling. For me, Melina's one real positive is her ability to remain popular despite being a mediocre at best worker.



LEARN IT, KNOW IT, LIVE IT!
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.64
    Originally posted by OndaGrande
    the whole paparazzi magnet thing comes from Amber O'Neal and Krissy Vaine just amplified.


Rly? Hasn't Melina been doing the MNM act since 2004?
Big G
Potato korv








Since: 21.8.03
From: the people who brought you Steel Magnolias....

Since last post: 29 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
I'm not entirely sure why, but I found cueball Serena to be more attractive than Paige Webb?

My fave time in womens wrestling was when Trish, Jazz, Victoria & Lita were all going, while Jazz was just a hardass before they made a joke of her.
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 Next
Thread rated: 5.53
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 Next
Thread ahead: TNA Impact 8.26.2010 - "Hogan's Cavalry"
Next thread: SmackDown! #575 8-27-10 (Serena's farewell show)
Previous thread: Final vote for WHO WILL BE WWE'S NEXT BREAKOUT STAR (for now)
(2162 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
Let's see, a T.V. show that was heavily hyped and had high ratings the first week, until falling off the weeks after when people realized it was crap and became a national joke. Oh wait, this isn't the return of the XFL?
- redsoxnation, Rikishi/Anna Nicole Smith (2002)
Related threads: SmackDown! #574 8-20-10 - SmackDown! #573 8-13-10 - I'm Insatiable - More...
The W - Pro Wrestling - Serena Released?! (Page 2)Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.378 seconds.