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The W - Pro Wrestling - Scott Keith is Wrong: Kane is Barry Windham and RVD is Lex Luger
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Wonderful1
Haggis








Since: 23.11.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 4187 days
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#1 Posted on
Anybody wanna bet that it is Kane who ultimately turns on Rob Van Dam. Kane is playing the role of the reliable babyface who is taken for granted by the fans in favor of the flashier upstart that is Rob Van Dam. Cue back 15 years it was the reliable Barry Windham who was taken for granted by the fans in favor of the pretty boy poser Lex Luger who was the big fan favorite due to his playing to crowd. Kane looked like he was rolling his eyes underneath his mask when RVD was listing his move set.

I just had to let that one out in the open.

Wonderful1
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DVD
Chipolata








Since: 28.7.02

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#2 Posted on
I totally agree with you and said the same thing(well, not the Horsemen reference) to my girlfriend about Kane turning while we watched Raw. The mask needs to come off and stay off. After his Horsemen run, he could get injured(possibly at the hands of the Horsemen?). Weeks go by where(during matches) the Tron flashes his mask. Then Kane comes back and runs over the Horsemen and TripleH. Sweet booking.
Scott Summets
Sujuk








Since: 27.6.02

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#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by DVD
    I totally agree with you and said the same thing(well, not the Horsemen reference) to my girlfriend about Kane turning while we watched Raw. The mask needs to come off and stay off. After his Horsemen run, he could get injured(possibly at the hands of the Horsemen?). Weeks go by where(during matches) the Tron flashes his mask. Then Kane comes back and runs over the Horsemen and TripleH. Sweet booking.


But if the mask ever truly came off, could he ever put it back on? Everyone would know what Kane looks like, so it would lose its effect.



You don't get it boy, this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table. And I'm the surgeon.
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A man so extroardinaire?

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AbortionCandyMachine
Cotechino








Since: 24.10.02
From: backwards uncivilised cesspool

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#4 Posted on
I agree that if anyone is turning it will be Kane, simply because his face persona can't get any staler. I don't blame Kane for this; it's been well over 2 years since his current face run began, and there simply isn't anything left for him to do with it. RVD, on the other hand, should never ever be a heel. Not gonna happen. What I'm hoping for is a not-so-subtle build to a Van Dam heel turn, followed by a nice big swerve. Hopefully a decent RVD/Kane program will keep the two of them busy through Wrestlemania.

The tricky part here is finding a way to align Kane and HHH in light of the Katie Vick train wreck. As far as I'm concerned, if there was ever a time to disregard continuity and forget an angle ever happened, this is it
About the mask, am I the only one who would mark out if Kane finally loses the mask for real and we see that his face actually IS burned beyond recognition?



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sentonBOMB
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Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

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#5 Posted on

    Originally posted by AbortionCandyMachine
    About the mask, am I the only one who would mark out if Kane finally loses the mask for real and we see that his face actually IS burned beyond recognition?


i actually thought last night that when they took off the mask and kane ran to the back, that he was going to run back without the mask to make the save. we would then see that kane's face had been healed for a long time, and it was just his fear of self revelation to the public that led him to keep his mask on.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
How did Kane ever get his mask back from X-Pac in the first place?



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


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-- Homer Simpson
The Masked Hungarian
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Staten Island NY USA

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#7 Posted on
Logic (ok ok insert joke here) dictates that it CANT be Kane

1) Kane eliminated RVD in the rumble

2) Last night was the first time RVD used his Sabu schtick - "and you, you have that chokeslam"

3) Kane LEFT RVD last night, leading to him getting pinned.

4) RVD has hit the wall, sort of like Jericho after KOTR 2001. He's obviously "not ready" to win the belt just yet, but he still gets the fans reaction. Solution? HHH alignes with him.

Like I said in another thread, down the line RVD would be a much better Sting then Kane would be, and maybe with that HHH "rub" he'll be ready by then.
Texas Kelly
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Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

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#8 Posted on
RVD is a better fit for the New Horsemen than Kane, and even then, only in the Sting mold. If Kane shacked up with Teo, not only would it make less sense from a storyline perspective (RVD just had a feud with Teo, while Kane had the Katie Vick crap to deal with) but Scott would be terrified by the prospect of the WWF pushing Kane & Batista in the tag team division.

The only problem is, it's way too late to do an angle like this for Wrestlemania, and the belt has to come off Teo by then (and the WWF knows it). Let's see how smart the WWF is next week.





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oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#9 Posted on
"How did Kane ever get his mask back from X-Pac in the first place?"

Um, he didn't. That was why he was wearing a NEW mask when he came back.

Any chance to shoot you down, asteroid...




"Here's the thing: I don't give a tupenny f*ck about your moral conundrum, you meatheaded shit-sack. That's pretty much the thing." Daniel Day-Lewis as Bill "The Butcher" Cutting, Gangs Of New York. You'd be surprised at how many statements this can be used as a response to.

asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    "How did Kane ever get his mask back from X-Pac in the first place?"

    Um, he didn't. That was why he was wearing a NEW mask when he came back.

    Any chance to shoot you down, asteroid...



Oh yeah. Damn you, Donnie Darko.

Back on subject, I don't think that EITHER of these guys would be a good fit for the new group. Unless RVD donned a suit and busted out those specs that he wore for the Tenth Anniversary Special (heyyyyy.. maybe that was a teaser!)

A friend (okay, it was jivesoulbro) suggested Chris Nowinski. He'd be good, but that would be a lot of green guys and two over-the-hill workers for the new group.



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


"...release the dogs, or the bees, or the dogs with bees in their mouths, and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?"
-- Homer Simpson
Wonderful1
Haggis








Since: 23.11.02
From: New York, NY

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#11 Posted on
Most of you are assuming that either man would wind up in Triple H's faction. I don't see either man in that group regardless of who turns heel. The Windham/Luger analogy more pertains to the behavior of both characters. Kane is the more established/stale face, while RVD is the flavor of the moment. I doubt the angle will end up the same way as Luger/Windham, but I do think Kane has some resentment towards his cooler partner RVD. Isn't that's why Windham turned on Luger in the first place?

Wonderful1
OMEGA
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Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

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#12 Posted on
I agree with everyone who said RVD should be the heel. I just always thought that when RVD was a heel back in ECW, he was just so much more entertaining. His interviews with Sabu were hilarious ("How will Rob Van Dam be able to carry all five belts, and his partner too?" Damn, I love that line!). Plus, the cocky, arrogant persona just comes so naturally to RVD, because that's who he really is (Have you ever heard an interview with him? Rob Van Dam and Rob Szatkowski are one in the same). But, I do not think he should be with Triple H's group. His whole persona is that of a loner, who is too good to be associated with a group.

Of course, the WWE will probably end up turning Kane heel and give him another main-event push, while Rob gets stuck in opening matches with Christopher Nowinski, just to annoy me.



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Moriarty
Chaurice








Since: 28.1.03
From: Los Angeles, CA

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#13 Posted on
I'm kinda doubting they'd turn RVD heel at this point. He's still getting big pops as a face. If they were to go the whole "arrogant jerk" route, they'd have to send him to Smackdown since Jericho already has the market cornered on that gimmick.
ManiacalClown
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston, TX

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Whoever joins the other Horsemen is going to be tagging with RANDY, and I just can't see Kane or RVD in that role.



In This Very Ring - We Also [heart] Puff Mario

The King of Keith
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Since: 4.11.02
From: Winchester, VA

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#15 Posted on
I'll tell you who I'd really like out there (even though it is too early for him) is John Hennigan. That boy is a bad ass of the highest degree. Give him a few years, though, before saddling him in such a high profile faction.



Welcome back, Jazz! We missed you!
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#16 Posted on
According to 1bullshit through 411, RVD and Kane will be tag teaming on RAW on Feb. 16th against Rhyno/Batista, so if they are going to break up it will be at least 3 weeks from now. Rhyno teaming with Batista, the net seems to be on a hot streak lately.



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Wpob
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Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

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#17 Posted on
Christian would be a great fit for the fourth Horseman as he is awesome on the mic and can be a grea tag partner or a Cruiserweight guy. Putting Orton and Christian as a tag team would give them another heel tag team to go with Sotrm and Regal.

A pipe dream, I know, but a dream nonetheless.



So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one---big hitter, the Lama---long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-galunga. So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consiousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
shea
Bockwurst








Since: 1.2.02
From: Brooklyn NY

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.74
I get the feeling the position of "fourth Horseman" will be one of those revolving-door spots, where a different guy is joining / leaving every couple of weeks.

Which is fine with me, as long as Flair is the up-front and very vocal manager / mouthpiece, which so far isn't the case.

I mean, why are the writers having their absolute best talker take a back seat? Flair should be all over HHH's feud with Steiner. Plus, don't ric and scott have a history from back in WCW? Yet week in, week out, I see Flair standing around while we watch two morons take all the air out of the arena.

Note to Vince: USE THE TALENT
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

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#19 Posted on
If they absolutely feel they need to officialy label them as "The Four Horsemen" instead of just "The Four Men" (JR this week) or "Four Individuals Currently Affiliated To Achieve Common Goals" or "Triple H and Three Other Guys and Still One Other Guy" or "When Did Any Of the Other Guys Meet Randy Orton In the First Place?", there is a pretty solid candidate on the Raw roster who would fit into the team on just about all the levels it needs: a solid worker, a guy who has proven to be a valuable tag wrestler, a good talker, a (slight) connection to the past, a weatlth of focus and intensity, motivation and the means to propel this stable into an angle for the post-Wrestlemania year. One guy can bring all of that together, and it's Goldust.

It's a double-edge sword, because I think he'd perfect for the role and would move them to a positive place, but I'd also hate to see them do it. I say that because it would be just another in a long line of moves that does nothing but give the fans exactly what they don't want to see. As a team, Dust-T (ha ha, you're old news as a name, Black Gold!) have been great over the past year and have really connected with the viewers in spite of some incredibly terrible booking. To give them an ending where one turns on the other now would remind us more of the bad that surrounded them rather than the good stuff they did amidst the garbage that won us over.

But let's ignore that for a minute.

Dustin's been great in tag matches since he came back, he knows how to make them work. He's what they need as the experienced tag partner for Batista or Orton. I'm guessing Orton will be the tag wrestler for now, but either way, Dustin has the in-ring charisma and match pacing that Bastista lacks and Orton didn't seem to have down yet before the injury. He could make up for Batista's seeming lack or personality outside and is versatile enough to play off of Orton, who is strong in this area, and has shown in his time with Booker T that he can play the role of the guy who doesn't overshadow the one they want to push (well, in theory, since they don't seem to have actually wanted to push Booker T).

I think his in-ring and backstage work has definitely shown that he's got a ton of motivation and focus. He came back at the Rumble last year and almost through sheer force of will managed to make it a lasting gig. Then, despite no direction (except down) from anyone, he and Booker threw themselves into whatever tiny opportunity they had. He's also shown his ability to understand the layers of his character - the "I'm the weak link" Raw really brought that home when he revealed the character underneath the character, the Dustin Rhodes beneath Goldust. That kind of layering is something they need, as the rest of the group they have now is pretty one dimensional when they don't let Flair really open up like he did in the HBK rant. Orton's been hilarious, but not the kind of character with room for any depth.

He's got some history, having been around so long compared to new guys like Orton and Batista. Being from a wrestling family like Orton would further help give their team a wrinkle in their identity. He's not only got WWF history, but he's been in WCW with the actual Horsemen around. His dad is Dusty Rhodes, one of the great Horsemen enemies. That's how you bring him in, in fact. He returned last year because he didn't think he was a big enough star anymore. He hitched himself to Booker because of it. He can say that his daddy never would have let him be with The Horsemen, and so here he is in gold paint and a wig, but Flair gave him a once in a lifetime chance to finally be something. Goldust making the Booker Hand Gesture and saying "See this? This doesn't mean anything!", then dropping the thumb to do the Horsemen symbol and saying "This...THIS means something!"? That would be pretty damn cool, I think.

So yeah, unless they do a quick turnaround after No Way Out and throw Booker against HHH for Wrestlemania, he's got nothing to do of note. So Goldust turning on him now and joining the Horsemen would make for a Dust-T Explode! match at Wrestlemania and actually tie up the one angle that's lasted almost the whole year. And after beating his old partner, Booker would then be right in the middle of a feud with the Horsemen and looking to go after the guy who brought this all back, setting up the Booker/HHH feud they need to do after they get the Steiner stuff out of the way.

It would really work and get them where they should have been heading for a while. I still don't want to see them use the Horsemen name for this group or turn either Booker or Goldust, though.
shea
Bockwurst








Since: 1.2.02
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 3916 days
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.74

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Goldust making the Booker Hand Gesture and saying "See this? This doesn't mean anything!", then dropping the thumb to do the Horsemen symbol and saying "This...THIS means something!"? That would be pretty damn cool, I think.


wow -- y'know, that actually IS pretty damn cool.

The whole scenario makes perfect sense, and Dustin has the acting chops to pull it off. Dr. Unlikely, you are now my Fantasy Booking hero.

hey -- And then when Flair instigates Dustin's getting thrown OUT of the Horsemen (for something he DIDN'T do -- like they suspect him of backstabbing but he's actually loyal), the saga of Goldust as tragic figure will be complete.
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